New bull time

Help Support CattleToday:

MurraysMutts said:
I gotcha buddy!
But idk that he's a real registered stock fella.
I've heard a few things thru the grapevine about this guy's bulls. It's kind of weird how everyone talks about broken penis'
Penii?
Whatever.

I'm still on the fence about him.

I really really wish I hadn't sold Richard
Click to expand...
Murray, there are several people on here that I have been following and watching for the last 4 or 5 years. Haven't met one yet in person...talked on the phone to some...but there are several honest, honorable breeders on here, that I myself would buy a bull from sight unseen, just on their word. And there are people on here that have bought bulls from some of them. Like @coachg from @gizmom , and @kenny thomas from @simme, and others I can't think of right now. I bet if you contacted some of the people on here, and told them you had $3k to spend on a bull, you'd end up with one that they gave you a good deal on, and you'd be money ahead. Even if you had to drive 1000 miles and spend a weekend going to get it. You might have a motley crew..a crayon box of cows...but they are good cows. A good, registered, homo for black and polled bull would just tie them all together, in a nice, uniform calf crop. That pic you posted of the black Corriente in the corn field close to you?: I liked that Brangus bull in with them, from what I could see. at that distance.
 
Last edited:
Warren Allison said:
That is true. But on another thread you said your preference was Black Angus. Best calving ease and best calf vigor. Maybe that is what gave rise to the development of the SimmAngus... best of both worlds?
Click to expand...
Warren, when it comes to calving ease, yes I prefer Angus because I am much more familiar with what they are.
I am only recently involved with Simmental bulls. If somebody is breeding cows then I believe using a calving ease bull is costing money.
When I visited that Simmental farm that I bought the most recent bull from, my eyes were opened. It would be hard for me to ever go back to Angus again except for maybe a heifer bull and probably not then either, at this point.
I looked at a group of bulls that were purebred Simmentals and a couple high percentage 5/8 Simmental 3/8 Angus. There was a powerhouse of a registered Angus in the group from a large well known farm in the area. On his own that bull was very impressive yet looking at him side by side with the Simmentals the Simmentals were a little bigger framed, longer and thicker.
The idea of buying a crossbred bull like a SimAngus does not appeal to me at all.
My theory is buy a registered purebred bull. If I had a home raised SimAngus or other cross bull that's one thing but would not buy one.
My cows are different breeds and I don't want to spend money on adding a crossbred that's going to throw even more variables.
In that respect I would prefer a pure Simmental or a pure Angus over 1/2 and 1/2 SimAngus bull. SimAngus cows I would be fine with.
 
Ky hills said:
Warren, when it comes to calving ease, yes I prefer Angus because I am much more familiar with what they are.
I am only recently involved with Simmental bulls. If somebody is breeding cows then I believe using a calving ease bull is costing money.
When I visited that Simmental farm that I bought the most recent bull from, my eyes were opened. It would be hard for me to ever go back to Angus again except for maybe a heifer bull and probably not then either, at this point.
I looked at a group of bulls that were purebred Simmentals and a couple high percentage 5/8 Simmental 3/8 Angus. There was a powerhouse of a registered Angus in the group from a large well known farm in the area. On his own that bull was very impressive yet looking at him side by side with the Simmentals the Simmentals were a little bigger framed, longer and thicker.
The idea of buying a crossbred bull like a SimAngus does not appeal to me at all.
My theory is buy a registered purebred bull. If I had a home raised SimAngus or other cross bull that's one thing but would not buy one.
My cows are different breeds and I don't want to spend money on adding a crossbred that's going to throw even more variables.
In that respect I would prefer a pure Simmental or a pure Angus over 1/2 and 1/2 SimAngus bull. SimAngus cows I would be fine with.
Click to expand...
I agree with that 100%. Registered SimmAngus can be no more than 7/8 simm, or 7/8 angus, and no less than 1/8th Simm or 1/8th Angus. Big difference in a 7/8ths Simm and a 7/8ths Angus,. IMO, too much for consistency. And I would not use a 50/50 Simm Angus. Just like I would not use a 50/50 Herf -Angus bull nor a 50/50 Char Angus bull. Dunno why the developers didn't go the route of creating an actual SimmAng breed. A stabil, 5/8 Simm and 3/8 Angus breed, like Brangus, Gert or Braford. That bull I would use. Like you, I'd have no problem with SimmAngus cows, to breed to a registered pure bred bull of a third breed. But even then, I would like for the cows to be the same percentage-wise. Wouldn't want some 3/4 or 7/8 Simm, some 3/4 or 7/8 Angus, and some 50/50, etc., in the same herd. If I were 30 years younger, creating a SimmAngus breed might be an interesting project to develop,
 
Ky hills said:
Warren, when it comes to calving ease, yes I prefer Angus because I am much more familiar with what they are.
I am only recently involved with Simmental bulls. If somebody is breeding cows then I believe using a calving ease bull is costing money.
When I visited that Simmental farm that I bought the most recent bull from, my eyes were opened. It would be hard for me to ever go back to Angus again except for maybe a heifer bull and probably not then either, at this point.
I looked at a group of bulls that were purebred Simmentals and a couple high percentage 5/8 Simmental 3/8 Angus. There was a powerhouse of a registered Angus in the group from a large well known farm in the area. On his own that bull was very impressive yet looking at him side by side with the Simmentals the Simmentals were a little bigger framed, longer and thicker.
The idea of buying a crossbred bull like a SimAngus does not appeal to me at all.
My theory is buy a registered purebred bull. If I had a home raised SimAngus or other cross bull that's one thing but would not buy one.
My cows are different breeds and I don't want to spend money on adding a crossbred that's going to throw even more variables.
In that respect I would prefer a pure Simmental or a pure Angus over 1/2 and 1/2 SimAngus bull. SimAngus cows I would be fine with.
Click to expand...
After you use some Simmental CE bulls, you will be sold. Especially if you use spread bulls like OMF Epic or MR SR 71 Right Now (sire of my little bull). Some Simmental breeders have worked to keep growth but have CE. I think mostly they are short gestation bulls. I have never chased super CE bulls for my heifers. I expect them to have a 75-90# calf unassisted. I do not see a difference at weaning between mature cows calves and 2 yr olds.
 
Seems to me that the biggest contributor to a consistent calf crop is the consistency in the cow herd. More so than the breed composition of the herd bull. If the cow herd consists of many breeds and combinations of breeds, seems like that could cause variation in the calves. Logical that a crossbred bull paired up with multi breed cows would show more variation in calves. Seems like a goal of consistent cows paired up with a different breed bull might produce some consistency plus some benefit from heterosis. My cows are pretty consistent. Not much variation in the calves, whether using an angus bull, a simmental bull or a simangus bull.
 
simme said:
Seems to me that the biggest contributor to a consistent calf crop is the consistency in the cow herd. More so than the breed composition of the herd bull. If the cow herd consists of many breeds and combinations of breeds, seems like that could cause variation in the calves. Logical that a crossbred bull paired up with multi breed cows would show more variation in calves. Seems like a goal of consistent cows paired up with a different breed bull might produce some consistency plus some benefit from heterosis. My cows are pretty consistent. Not much variation in the calves, whether using an angus bull, a simmental bull or a simangus bull.
Click to expand...
That's what I was getting at, a lot of commercial herds are very mixed with different breeds and crosses, therefore a purebred bull should make for more consistency than a crossbred throwing another percentage of a breed or two into the already mixed group.
In a herd of straight Angus cows for example a SimAngus bull would be fine probably.
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley said:
After you use some Simmental CE bulls, you will be sold. Especially if you use spread bulls like OMF Epic or MR SR 71 Right Now (sire of my little bull). Some Simmental breeders have worked to keep growth but have CE. I think mostly they are short gestation bulls. I have never chased super CE bulls for my heifers. I expect them to have a 75-90# calf unassisted. I do not see a difference at weaning between mature cows calves and 2 yr olds.
Click to expand...
That was my experience with Charolais too, there wasn't a difference between heifers calves and cows calves. With both Angus and Hereford there is almost always a significant difference.
I've never been real impressed with the do it all curvebender Angus bulls, they either didn't do anything especially well or most still had strong points and weak points like any other bull.
 
Warren Allison said:
I agree with that 100%. Registered SimmAngus can be no more than 7/8 simm, or 7/8 angus, and no less than 1/8th Simm or 1/8th Angus. Big difference in a 7/8ths Simm and a 7/8ths Angus,. IMO, too much for consistency. And I would not use a 50/50 Simm Angus. Just like I would not use a 50/50 Herf -Angus bull nor a 50/50 Char Angus bull. Dunno why the developers didn't go the route of creating an actual SimmAng breed. A stabil, 5/8 Simm and 3/8 Angus breed, like Brangus, Gert or Braford. That bull I would use. Like you, I'd have no problem with SimmAngus cows, to breed to a registered pure bred bull of a third breed. But even then, I would like for the cows to be the same percentage-wise. Wouldn't want some 3/4 or 7/8 Simm, some 3/4 or 7/8 Angus, and some 50/50, etc., in the same herd. If I were 30 years younger, creating a SimmAngus breed might be an interesting project to develop,
Click to expand...
Crossbred animals are crossbred animals.

Cross... breeds.

It's been a mistake to create registrations for them. The strength of registered animals is reliability and cross breeds are not reliable enough to merit registration in any way, shape, or form. @Ky hills is right on the money.
 
Travlr said:
Crossbred animals are crossbred animals.

Cross... breeds.

It's been a mistake to create registrations for them. The strength of registered animals is reliability and cross breeds are not reliable enough to merit registration in any way, shape, or form. @Ky hills is right on the money.
Click to expand...
We probably don't agree. In what ways are simangus not reliable? Please address specific traits that are not reliable. Birth weight, calving ease, growth, fertility, carcass traits, longevity, structure, efficiency, milk, etc.

Are calves sired by an angus bull bred to simmental cows more consistent (or more profitable) than calves sired by a simangus bull bred to those same simmental cows? Say the simangus bull is a son of the angus bull so that the genetics are closer. Any specific experience with simangus trait reliability compared to pure angus or pure simmental? Or just a general thing?

There are a lot of simangus sired cattle. Where is the "mistake'? Are the simangus sired calves inferior in performance, profitability, or what?
 

Similar threads

T
Time to shop for a new bull
Replies
0
Views
314
Texas G@l
T
Warren Allison
Night time calving?
Replies
18
Views
704
devonian
D
tater74
New born
2
Replies
27
Views
1K
tater74
tater74
H
Yearling bull fertility
Replies
18
Views
879
Hpacres440p
H
G
Young bull
Replies
0
Views
275
georgiabob
G

Latest posts

Top