Line one Herefords...Pros and Cons???

[dun]

I think dun has used feltons Legend in the past, send him a PM I'm sure he'll be alot more help than the rest of us.

We only used him on one test cow and she hasn;t calved yet. There was a discussion of him on here last year.

dun

 

[Anonymous]

I also wanted to mention that if you are indeed serious about buying a line one bull, you can buy a very good two year old for $1400-$2000 at the Jamison sale. I have never paid more than $1900 at their sale and had a good choice of two year olds to chose from. They say the sale average is around $3200 at the sale but if you peel off the top 10 bulls sold the average comes down significantly. That, in my opinion, is a good price to pay for a sure enough good range bull (with straight line one breeding like you are looking for).

Also to get the full benefit of the line one prepotency don't just buy a hereford bull with a line one sire or dam, look for line one breeding throughout the three generation pedigree. (ie: Coopers (CL 1 Domino), Holdens (HH Advance), Jamison (JA L1), Fort Keogh (L1 Domino), ect...

Hope this helps.

 

[regenwether]

Thanks for the imput...

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Oh yes, the friend I was talking about was an older gentleman and when he passed away his son changed to Simmental and really lost alot of money before figuring that dad's cattle was hard to beat :nod: .

I will agree that hereford/angus is hard to beat. Do you know the reason he claims to have lost money with the simmis?

cfpinz

His first calf season was a disaster, lost so many cows and calves it was unbelievable. Those were some of the biggest calves I've ever seen! Now he has basically what dad had.

Here is an opportunity to once again (!) attempt to explain the absolute necessity of NOT thinking just BREED as the source of all the problems in Cattle Management! If the Son had used common sense and studied the genetics of the Simmental Bull he used on his cows, and the genetics of the cows he bred to the Simmental bull, AND used the FACTS of Phenotype and Genotype - TOGETHER - he would have (a)- NOT had a disaster, (b)- would NOT have lost cows and calves because the bull(s) and cows would have been physically compatible for Birth Weight and size, and (c)- the Son would not have had to blame the breed, the feed, the soil, the weather, the government, his neighbors, and probably the local County Agent and the guy he bought the Simmental (Bull(s) from to boot! And he wouldn't have had to blame his ignorance, either. Or - maybe it was his stupidity!

This is a perfect example of why Universities, and intelligent breeders decided it was past time for people who were trying to make a living from the Land and Cattle to LEARN what the heck they were doing - and the mistakes they were making. If they were smart - they could be successful. If they were stupid - they would just have to continue to make the same stupid errors of good judgement, and probably go broke, and then continue to blame someone else for their failures! :lol2:

DON'T GET ME STARTED!

DOC HARRIS

 

[JMichal]

Doc
Can I have a beer while on bored?

Student

 

[eldiente]

I think Line 1 cattle are some of the best herefords around. My preference is to get close to the original source - I like the L1 herd ot Miles City, MT or the Cooper Hereford or Holden Hereford ranches.

These cattle have been selected for a number of generations, and you'll find great consistency in the entire herd.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Can I have a beer while on bored?

:?: :?: :???: What the heck does that mean???

DOC HARRIS

 

[1848]

If the Son had used common sense and studied the genetics of the Simmental Bull he used on his cows, and the genetics of the cows he bred to the Simmental bull, AND used the FACTS of Phenotype and Genotype - TOGETHER - he would have (a)- NOT had a disaster, (b)- would NOT have lost cows and calves because the bull(s) and cows would have been physically compatible for Birth Weight and size, and (c)- the Son would not have had to blame the breed, the feed, the soil, the weather, the government, his neighbors, and probably the local County Agent and the guy he bought the Simmental (Bull(s) from to boot! And he wouldn't have had to blame his ignorance, either.DOC HARRIS

:nod:

 

[sjr725]

We just bought 3 new 2yr old bulls that are basically MSU line 1 Havre bloodlines - they'll get here in April! looking forward to seeing them again - we bought them last fall. Don't ask me any complicated genetics questions - that's hubby's job! I just lide them based strictly on looks.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I will agree that hereford/angus is hard to beat. Do you know the reason he claims to have lost money with the simmis?

cfpinz

His first calf season was a disaster, lost so many cows and calves it was unbelievable. Those were some of the biggest calves I've ever seen! Now he has basically what dad had.

Here is an opportunity to once again (!) attempt to explain the absolute necessity of NOT thinking just BREED as the source of all the problems in Cattle Management! If the Son had used common sense and studied the genetics of the Simmental Bull he used on his cows, and the genetics of the cows he bred to the Simmental bull, AND used the FACTS of Phenotype and Genotype - TOGETHER - he would have (a)- NOT had a disaster, (b)- would NOT have lost cows and calves because the bull(s) and cows would have been physically compatible for Birth Weight and size, and (c)- the Son would not have had to blame the breed, the feed, the soil, the weather, the government, his neighbors, and probably the local County Agent and the guy he bought the Simmental (Bull(s) from to boot! And he wouldn't have had to blame his ignorance, either. Or - maybe it was his stupidity!

This is a perfect example of why Universities, and intelligent breeders decided it was past time for people who were trying to make a living from the Land and Cattle to LEARN what the heck they were doing - and the mistakes they were making. If they were smart - they could be successful. If they were stupid - they would just have to continue to make the same stupid errors of good judgement, and probably go broke, and then continue to blame someone else for their failures! :lol2:

DON'T GET ME STARTED!

DOC HARRIS

I sure do miss ol' DOC, he had a way of getting right to the point.

 

[elkwc]

His first calf season was a disaster, lost so many cows and calves it was unbelievable. Those were some of the biggest calves I've ever seen! Now he has basically what dad had.

Here is an opportunity to once again (!) attempt to explain the absolute necessity of NOT thinking just BREED as the source of all the problems in Cattle Management! If the Son had used common sense and studied the genetics of the Simmental Bull he used on his cows, and the genetics of the cows he bred to the Simmental bull, AND used the FACTS of Phenotype and Genotype - TOGETHER - he would have (a)- NOT had a disaster, (b)- would NOT have lost cows and calves because the bull(s) and cows would have been physically compatible for Birth Weight and size, and (c)- the Son would not have had to blame the breed, the feed, the soil, the weather, the government, his neighbors, and probably the local County Agent and the guy he bought the Simmental (Bull(s) from to boot! And he wouldn't have had to blame his ignorance, either. Or - maybe it was his stupidity!

This is a perfect example of why Universities, and intelligent breeders decided it was past time for people who were trying to make a living from the Land and Cattle to LEARN what the heck they were doing - and the mistakes they were making. If they were smart - they could be successful. If they were stupid - they would just have to continue to make the same stupid errors of good judgement, and probably go broke, and then continue to blame someone else for their failures! :lol2:

DON'T GET ME STARTED!

DOC HARRIS

I sure do miss ol' DOC, he had a way of getting right to the point.

Whether you agreed with him or not you had to respect him. You knew where he stood and what his views were. I have a different opinion than him on several things but a lot of that stems from the different areas we come from.

 

[farmguy]

I am confused so bear with me. I have a copy of the Ft. Keogh sale catalog. I selected a bull at random, L1 domino 15130 who is 31% inbred, has a BW of 90 LBS and a weaning weight of 385 LBS. I like to use EPD graphs which I hope I can understand. I do not know how to post a picture of an EPD graph so I will note a few values but you can check the AHA site as a guest and check my values. As I understand the graph this bull is in the bottom 5% for WW and a mature cow weight in the lightest 10%. BW would be in the lower third. I realize these are predictions only but am I understanding the EPD graph correctly?
If I am understanding the EPD graph correctly I notice other Line 1 herds using Domino lines have a much higher WW and cow size. Has Ft. Keogh deliberately chosen to stay with a smaller animal because of the conditions where these animals live? What is the goal of the Ft. Keogh herd? Is it to study line breeding, inbreeding and other genetic areas? Is it to maintain a Hereford line similar to what existed in 1934? Or is the goal to improve the breed for today's needs? Again I am trying to understand this Line 1 thing so if I have offended anyone it is not intentional, farmguy