How you like me now. SAV President 6847 rises to the top.

[Redgully]

I believe in epds as a tool to help select bulls but not the bible. In my chosen breed there was a bull that went for big money, talking tens of thousands which is big money in a very small breed. All the diehard epd breeders used him and wouldn't be told otherwise. He sloped in the shoulder and passed this on to his progeny strongly. Stuffed up many herds and you can still see the effect generations later. I feel you really need to have your eyes open. This last year i used the top epd bull in the breed and am happy with what i got but i had a trusted friend view him and said he was very structurally sound and from a strictly grass fed only operation. Photos looked good. I just think you should have a long list of criteria selecting bulls and epds as just one thing on the list. I'm not into high flyers, they always have ulterior motives.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I believe in epds as a tool to help select bulls but not the bible. In my chosen breed there was a bull that went for big money, talking tens of thousands which is big money in a very small breed. All the diehard epd breeders used him and wouldn't be told otherwise. He sloped in the shoulder and passed this on to his progeny strongly. Stuffed up many herds and you can still see the effect generations later. I feel you really need to have your eyes open. This last year i used the top epd bull in the breed and am happy with what i got but i had a trusted friend view him and said he was very structurally sound and from a strictly grass fed only operation. Photos looked good. I just think you should have a long list of criteria selecting bulls and epds as just one thing on the list. I'm not into high flyers, they always have ulterior motives.

I sure hope serious cattlemen embrace EPDs for the tools they are but are still using their evaluation skills before the make their breeding decisions. I always want a bull that "looks the part".

 

[CreekAngus]

I gotta let all you Angus Cattlemen and Women we've been hoodwinked (tongue in cheek). For years and years we were made to believe SVF Forever Lady 57D and Ideal 4465 of 6807 were two of the greatest maternal dams in the history of the breed. Well as of today they are two of the sorriest maternal dams in the industry. Both are in the bottom 5%. And N Bar Primrose should have been in the kill pen as well, bottom 5%.

 

[M-5]

I'm seriously thinking of thawing all the Angus semen I have in my tank. I would hate for folks to think I'm as retarded and some folks on here are.

 

[jscunn]

M5,
LOL too funny, we are not all that retarded. Most of us dont even believe much less say we have the best mating in a state the size of Kentucky, or even brag about predicting a bull would be in the top 15% of the breed in a value index. That makes President not even in the top 5 bulls at SAV for $M..

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

M5,
LOL too funny, we are not all that retarded. Most of us dont even believe much less say we have the best mating in a state the size of Kentucky, or even brag about predicting a bull would be in the top 15% of the breed in a value index. That makes President not even in the top 5 bulls at SAV for $M..

Always took you for an educated EPD using cattleman JS.

 

[LCBulls]

I think that $M can be a good tool to use, along with all the others. I still think that they are overly worshiped.
There are so many different EPD categories. Some more important than others (to each operation).
I still think that the best cattle are balanced in many traits, and in those that can't be put on Paper.
I like that we now have a foot score EPD. Wish they released it before breeding this Spring. I'm sure they waited until people had purchased their semen to release it

 

[jscunn]

I try TT, it is a tool. A very important tool if you are selling registered cattle. Still just a tool in a big toolbox. Cattle that will improve the buyers herd in multiple areas. Not top 1% in 5 traits and bottom 80% in 5 traits too much fire and ice.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I try TT, it is a tool. A very important tool if you are selling registered cattle. Still just a tool in a big toolbox. Cattle that will improve the buyers herd in multiple areas. Not top 1% in 5 traits and bottom 80% in 5 traits too much fire and ice.

My thoughts exactly JS. Thank you.

Look Bright Raven, I found that honest man.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

I think that $M can be a good tool to use, along with all the others. I still think that they are overly worshiped.
There are so many different EPD categories. Some more important than others (to each operation).
I still think that the best cattle are balanced in many traits, and in those that can't be put on Paper.
I like that we now have a foot score EPD. Wish they released it before breeding this Spring. I'm sure they waited until people had purchased their semen to release it

They're doing the same thing next year with $C, releasing it June 2020.

Makes one wonder...

 

[Son of Butch]

Breed Average $M 59
top 15% $M 73
Difference of just $14 per year
How much more should a commercial man pay for a good bred heifer vs an average bred heifer?
Going by $M it appears to be about $50
$50 divided by 14 = 3.57 years just to break even on the extra $50 bid.

Top 1% $M 89
Top 25% $M 69
Bottom 25% $M 50

 

[jehosofat]

Very Rich

 

[Son of Butch]

I don't know about you, but top 15% for $M speaks volumes to me about using SAV President for daughters.

Yes, cream does rise to the top.
Good old dependable War Party $25 straw and $M top 4% waxed little ol' President's top 15%
Want a cow maker... check out War Party's % of daughters that have made pathfinder.

Edited to add:
War Party 16004857 eligible daughters 584 pathfinder qualified 58 (almost 10%)

 

[W.B.]

I don't know about you, but top 15% for $M speaks volumes to me about using SAV President for daughters.

http://bit.ly/2QyE1QL

So many on here slammed President, and they called him all hype, but if that $M matters to you and it should, then Kelly Schaff just performed a reverse slam dunk on the Angus breed with that historic flush.

:clap: Kelly Schaff and Charles Herbster :clap:

So why hasn't he been genomic tested? If he is the greatest a dna test should help substantiate that right?

Mine are DNA tested, will that help you?

Not really. I was really wondering why a bull with supposedly all the credentials of greatness yet the owners didn't feel it was necessary to test him to sell his semen. Hiding something perhaps?

 

[CreekAngus]

I don't know about you, but top 15% for $M speaks volumes to me about using SAV President for daughters.

Yes, cream does rise to the top.
Good old dependable War Party $25 straw and $M top 4% waxed little ol' President's top 15%
Want a cow maker... check out War Party's % of daughters that have made pathfinder.

Hey, that's my bull of choice, go get your own. I likes me some War Party cattle, I didn't check Bextor, but I'm bettin he is pretty high in $M if War Party is.

 

[CreekAngus]

I don't know about you, but top 15% for $M speaks volumes to me about using SAV President for daughters.

http://bit.ly/2QyE1QL

So many on here slammed President, and they called him all hype, but if that $M matters to you and it should, then Kelly Schaff just performed a reverse slam dunk on the Angus breed with that historic flush.

:clap: Kelly Schaff and Charles Herbster :clap:

RAINFALL !!!!! :clap: Square B :clap: I'm trolling you. :tiphat: :tiphat:

 

[CattleMan1920]

I don't know about you, but top 15% for $M speaks volumes to me about using SAV President for daughters.

Yes, cream does rise to the top.
Good old dependable War Party $25 straw and $M top 4% waxed little ol' President's top 15%
Want a cow maker... check out War Party's % of daughters that have made pathfinder.

Hey, that's my bull of choice, go get your own. I likes me some War Party cattle, I didn't check Bextor, but I'm bettin he is pretty high in $M if War Party is.

How about I breed War Party to my President daughters. I'm willing to give it a try, seriously.

What are your thoughts?

 

[LCBulls]

So why hasn't he been genomic tested? If he is the greatest a dna test should help substantiate that right?

Mine are DNA tested, will that help you?

Not really. I was really wondering why a bull with supposedly all the credentials of greatness yet the owners didn't feel it was necessary to test him to sell his semen. Hiding something perhaps?

That flush speaks for themselves.

Charlo influenced bulls did extremely well.

Coleman Bravo top 1% $M .

There's a reason that Kelly Schaffs/ Coleman Angus genetics are desired and it's not because they're going to blow you away on Paper. Chasing the Paper cow

 

[W.B.]

I will say again what does $M mean? It looks to me that mature weight is the heaviest influence for the magic number. No big mystery there but not many registered breeders weigh their cows and turn data in so once again a different illusion.The last bull I bought is top 2%. The index is not something I am seeking. As far as the foot epds go more breeders are going to have to start turning in accurate data to make it worth much. I see too many proven bulls that are known problem makers that are above breed average. Around and around we go.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I'm seriously thinking of thawing all the Angus semen I have in my tank. I would hate for folks to think I'm as retarded and some folks on here are.

I can relate to the guy in the video below when I read your posts.

http://bit.ly/2Z32W1B