How you like me now. SAV President 6847 rises to the top.

[CattleMan1920]

I don't know about you, but top 15% for $M speaks volumes to me about using SAV President for daughters.

http://bit.ly/2QyE1QL

So many on here slammed President, and they called him all hype, but if that $M matters to you and it should, then Kelly Schaff just performed a reverse slam dunk on the Angus breed with that historic flush.

:clap: Kelly Schaff and Charles Herbster :clap:

 

[Till-Hill]

But America is lowest 85%!

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Next bull sale season both of them will be history. Thats a pretty short time span the be king. That could change in week now days.

 

[CattleMan1920]

But America is lowest 85%!

That's fine by me, I'm using him for a specific purpose. He's just a part of the equation.

When I breed him to my gals, that's when you should pay attention to that $M. Especially to my Raindance daughters in time.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Next bull sale season both of them will be history. Thats a pretty short time span the be king. That could change in week now days.

I'm saying this in all seriousness. Do you know of a superior bull that you could discuss in detail and not just broad strokes, like, "he sucks, he would never be able to swim across raging rapids" etc.

I am truly interested in seeing what RBB considers to be a bull that breeders across the nation should turn their eyes to. Perhaps it's one on your ranch. If so, post him, get feedback, and if it's highly praised, have that bull collected.

You will know after you post him if you get PM's and phone calls inquiring about him. Your buddies on here that back all your comments are not a peer group that will benefit you financially, it's when people who never post (aka Lurkers) start contacting you and saying "what are you asking for your bulls, and what do you have available" that counts.

When that happens you will know you have that recipe right.

When one of your bulls has a 2-year waitlist for semen, you will be well on your way to a new level of success. If that matters to you.

 

[NEFarmwife]

You mind posting your girls again? They didn't fair as well. Did they?
Since you've posted them before...
19231187
19210549

One is in the bottom 90%. The other, bottom 65.

You have any in the top 10? Would you be interested in knowing which sires took my ladies to the top 10%? I have several in the top 4%.

Here is one that is sired by a TRUE female maker, which I noted in other thread would be proven. 19199558

We own the sire and if you're interested, you can purchase his semen on cattlevisions.

**back to sipping tea...**

 

[True Grit Farms]

You mind posting your girls again? They didn't fair as well. Did they?
Since you've posted them before...
19231187
19210549

One is in the bottom 90%. The other, bottom 65.

You have any in the top 10? Would you be interested in knowing which sires took my ladies to the top 10%? I have several in the top 4%.

Here is one that is sired by a TRUE female maker, which I noted in other thread would be proven. 19199558

We own the sire and if you're interested, you can purchase his semen on cattlevisions.

**back to sipping tea...**

Yeah but their big and that's all that matters. Same as America he was the highest priced Angus bull ever sold, so that makes him the best. I hope it's sweet tea.

 

[NEFarmwife]

You mind posting your girls again? They didn't fair as well. Did they?
Since you've posted them before...
19231187
19210549

One is in the bottom 90%. The other, bottom 65.

You have any in the top 10? Would you be interested in knowing which sires took my ladies to the top 10%? I have several in the top 4%.

Here is one that is sired by a TRUE female maker, which I noted in other thread would be proven. 19199558

We own the sire and if you're interested, you can purchase his semen on cattlevisions.

**back to sipping tea...**

Yeah but their big and that's all that matters. Same as America he was the highest priced Angus bull ever sold, so that makes him the best. I hope it's sweet tea.

I assume that's tongue in cheek, considering we are discussing $M, which was the topic of this post?

 

[Jake]

Remember that Rainfall bull that you said couldn't compete? Top 1%
https://www.angus.org/Animal/EpdPedDtl.aspx?aid=FAAAANcKCr6lgfV5nlFAhNvnblkxbf69BwYVinSsmx0QLyZt&time=LAAAAOg8iixLHixoFHL2NdOZHJND8%2bxle0DKMSmKEQnjhMeE62QZwIzcbMcjsCwxXbpZHg%3d%3d

 

[Nesikep]

Since I couldn't find an equivalent from the Angus association, I found this from the Beefmaster ass'n

Maternal Index ($M)
$M or Maternal Index is designed to help ranchers select animals that fit into a maternal criteria. Dr. Matt Spangler of the University of Nebraska describes $M as the $ profit per cow exposed due to calf weaning weight accounting for costs associated with cow maintenance. Unique in the industry, $M accounts for growth, milk production and fertility and considers expected cow maintenance issues to arrive at an economic figure that is meaningful to the cowman. The EPDs considered and factored into $M are WW, YW, Milk and SC. These are balanced against cow maintenance costs as a result of mature cow size and milk production.

$M Example 1:
Sire A has a $M of $19.46. Sire B has a $M of $8.29. By subtracting the two figures:
Sire A $M $19.46 – Sire B $M $8.29= $11.17 in additional profit from daughters of Sire A due to their ability to balance growth, milk production and cow maintenance costs. While $11.17 per cow may not seem large, keep in mind that if that cow stays in the herd for 10 years that will translate into an additional $110 over the lifetime of that cow. In a margin driven industry where costs are important, that is an important figure.

What I don't see is how the productive life of the cow fits into there... I don't quite see how SC really plays into it either.

So how does this work for President, 1100 lb weaning weight... Either his momma and him are both on grain to their hearts content, which isn't a real world scenario for most ranchers, or momma milks like hell anyhow and will probably come up open sometime... which doesn't bode well for $M as most ranchers would figure.. What I"m guessing is happening is all the people with relatives of these expensive animals are all feeding them very well and that's inflating the numbers.. It's not dishonest, it's just the nature of it.

While I don't have the data crunching ability of an association, I do pay attention to how long a cow stays in the herd..
Here you see the "Josie" maternal line averages 2 more calves per cow (only cows I've culled contribute to this, the ones still in the herd don't), also shows all DOA calves, total calves, total kept as replacements, current ages, and so on...

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Brook show aside, theyre all just numbers that can be manipulated. As the angus association has done again and released today.

By whom and to what ends?

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Remember that Rainfall bull that you said couldn't compete? Top 1%
https://www.angus.org/Animal/EpdPedDtl.aspx?aid=FAAAANcKCr6lgfV5nlFAhNvnblkxbf69BwYVinSsmx0QLyZt&time=LAAAAOg8iixLHixoFHL2NdOZHJND8%2bxle0DKMSmKEQnjhMeE62QZwIzcbMcjsCwxXbpZHg%3d%3d

Who said that Jake?

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Next bull sale season both of them will be history. Thats a pretty short time span the be king. That could change in week now days.

I'm saying this in all seriousness. Do you know of a superior bull that you could discuss in detail and not just broad strokes, like, "he sucks, he would never be able to swim across raging rapids" etc.

I am truly interested in seeing what RBB considers to be a bull that breeders across the nation should turn their eyes to. Perhaps it's one on your ranch. If so, post him, get feedback, and if it's highly praised, have that bull collected.

You will know after you post him if you get PM's and phone calls inquiring about him. Your buddies on here that back all your comments are not a peer group that will benefit you financially, it's when people who never post (aka Lurkers) start contacting you and saying "what are you asking for your bulls, and what do you have available" that counts.

When that happens you will know you have that recipe right.
Brook i don't do angus so any bulls i know you wouldn't. The post i made is just pointing out that next great bull is just a the next bull sale season away. Then you can chase that bulls semen. I quit chasing the next new thing along time ago. I would never have to buy another straw of semen to breed my cows the rest of my life.
When one of your bulls has a 2-year waitlist for semen, you will be well on your way to a new level of success. If that matters to you.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

So a grand conspiracy? I like those.

 

[CreekAngus]

And we believe the $M is relevant.....WHY? It's not like the RAA's Stay EPD where it's adjusted by real world data. All $M is, is a bunch of other epd's shoved in a formula that's supposed to tell me so an so bull is going to give me better cows. We already have that epd, called word of mouth and relationships.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I hear ya Creek, I bought a dozen fancy Red Angus heifers and the bull they were breed to. All were stunning cattle but dun and a couple of other wise cattlemen warned me I had a train wreck in the making based on the EPDs.

I shoulda listened.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Remember that Rainfall bull that you said couldn't compete? Top 1%
https://www.angus.org/Animal/EpdPedDtl.aspx?aid=FAAAANcKCr6lgfV5nlFAhNvnblkxbf69BwYVinSsmx0QLyZt&time=LAAAAOg8iixLHixoFHL2NdOZHJND8%2bxle0DKMSmKEQnjhMeE62QZwIzcbMcjsCwxXbpZHg%3d%3d

Who said that Jake?

Too much calving ease for my taste, but nevertheless an excellent bull. I never said disparaging things about Rainfall, it's just my opinion that President is the best of the two.

Why wasn't Rainfall chosen for that final egg over President?

 

[W.B.]

I don't know about you, but top 15% for $M speaks volumes to me about using SAV President for daughters.

http://bit.ly/2QyE1QL

So many on here slammed President, and they called him all hype, but if that $M matters to you and it should, then Kelly Schaff just performed a reverse slam dunk on the Angus breed with that historic flush.

:clap: Kelly Schaff and Charles Herbster :clap:

So why hasn't he been genomic tested? If he is the greatest a dna test should help substantiate that right?

 

[CattleMan1920]

So a grand conspiracy? I like those.

Didn't you know TT, there is a massive conspiracy brewing.

One of the most interesting Angus ranches in the country is a secret, it's in Area 51. I was told by someone in the know that every animal in the herd is top 1% for $M AND $B.

I'll let you know if I can get some semen on their top sire .

 

[CattleMan1920]

I don't know about you, but top 15% for $M speaks volumes to me about using SAV President for daughters.

http://bit.ly/2QyE1QL

So many on here slammed President, and they called him all hype, but if that $M matters to you and it should, then Kelly Schaff just performed a reverse slam dunk on the Angus breed with that historic flush.

:clap: Kelly Schaff and Charles Herbster :clap:

So why hasn't he been genomic tested? If he is the greatest a dna test should help substantiate that right?

Mine are DNA tested, will that help you?