How would an F1 Brahman x Hereford Cross do in Cold Weather?
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MillIronQH
Well-known member
Ratfish":1raeb9bo said:
Young'un, It's not about defeatism. It's about the cold hard facts of life.Z
I don't think it's defeatism, just experience. You will likely be gaining some soon. Please keep us informed - if you have luck gentling him down and he does ok in the cold, tell us about it. If you find some of this "advice" was correct after all I hope you will be adult enough to let us know that as well (and be the voice of experience for the next novice that wants to try something similar)
Meanwhile some of this is just in fun. You will find folks that work with dangerous animals or situations tend to have a rough sense of humor. I have noticed both bikers and cowboys will watch a horrible wreck and as long as the victim lives, the whole thing will be a source of great humor.
Meanwhile some of this is just in fun. You will find folks that work with dangerous animals or situations tend to have a rough sense of humor. I have noticed both bikers and cowboys will watch a horrible wreck and as long as the victim lives, the whole thing will be a source of great humor.
aplusmnt
Well-known member
Like hippierancher said, most of us have experienced crazy cattle and know when something is an up hill battle, and when a specific person probably should not be fighting that battle.
I have never broke a Tiger to halter but I have broke probably 50 or more Limousin to lead and most of them were not very fun. And from the description of people on her I think I would be scared to even try on a Tiger.
You have received the information and what you choose is up to you.
Defeatism: was this your word for the day?
I have never broke a Tiger to halter but I have broke probably 50 or more Limousin to lead and most of them were not very fun. And from the description of people on her I think I would be scared to even try on a Tiger.
You have received the information and what you choose is up to you.
Defeatism: was this your word for the day?
cypressfarms
Well-known member
Ratfish":33in8eam said:
Let's examine this statement - "I didn't expect this level of defeatism from cattle ranchers, truth be told"
Main Entry: de·feat·ism
Pronunciation: di-'fE-"ti-z&m, dE-
Function: noun
: an attitude of accepting, expecting, or being resigned to defeat
First of all ratfish, I rarely trust people who say "truth be told", or "to tell you the truth". If you always tell the truth, there is no need for such qualifiers.
Second, IMO, your a newbie who somehow happened on a group of dinks. Most of what I've seen from your pics is F-1,F-2,maybe F-10 brahman crosses. I did see one hereford. You have already been told that a tigerstripe is one of the wildest cows, period. You now have not only the wildest, but the least valuable. Tiger stripe steers are not worth that much, expecially where you are. The one pic of that tiger steer running was all I needed to see. His head was up, and he definitely had the "look" to him.
Now your talking about moving them with cars??? Have they been exposed to cars? I shouldn't even ask. Regardless it's obvious by your questions that you are a newbie. No problem, everyone has to start somewhere, but you jumped into the deep part of the pool.
Sure, people on here have been poking fun at you; if you read back, it's only due to your own posts. Experienced cattlemen/women can see a trainwreck coming from your statements.
My guess is that your going to show up one morning with a bunch of friends with cars/buddies who also have little experience with cattle.The cattle, not used to being handled with cars will come un-glued. Regardless of how close that tiger will come when you feed him, let him get a whiff of something he senses is danger. The onslaught will look like that episode of Happy Days with Pinky, Fonzie, and the Kalachie brothers doing the demolition derby.
If I am wrong, please let me know. I will publicy apologize on the board.
Defeatism - no. Just trying to help YOU not get hurt. Maybe one day you will appreciate it.
bitterweed
Member
some time you have to LEAVE THEM LIKE YOU FIND THEM.
This is all starting to sound like "I'll show them I can do it" which is one notch removed from "Hold my beer and watch this".
Truth be told (I just had to throw that in), frequently what seems perfectly logical and seems like a great solution doesn;t work with cattle. The only thing dead bang certain with cattle is that there is nothing dead bang certain with cattle. Be extremly carefull, don;t hurry, and have a video camara going. The insurance company will find the video entertaining.
dun
Truth be told (I just had to throw that in), frequently what seems perfectly logical and seems like a great solution doesn;t work with cattle. The only thing dead bang certain with cattle is that there is nothing dead bang certain with cattle. Be extremly carefull, don;t hurry, and have a video camara going. The insurance company will find the video entertaining.
dun
MillIronQH
Well-known member
Dun... You have to admit that hide would look good draped over the back of your couch or under the coffee table.
Anywhere but on that steer.Z
Anywhere but on that steer.Z
MillIronQH
Well-known member
Bet me and Tommy could break him to lead. :cboy: Z
Dave
Well-known member
Ratfish,
Looking at those pictures I am guessing that those steers came from the saleyard. They look like put together what was cheap that day steers. Southwest Washington they probably came from Twin City Sale in Centraila. There is a reason he was at the sale to start with and that is the same reason he was cheap. If you can load that tiger back up and take him back on Saturday. You will be amazed how much easier the rest of the cattle will be to handle. If you don't have the facilities to load him without getting yourself hurt make arrangements to have him put in the freezer.
Dave
Looking at those pictures I am guessing that those steers came from the saleyard. They look like put together what was cheap that day steers. Southwest Washington they probably came from Twin City Sale in Centraila. There is a reason he was at the sale to start with and that is the same reason he was cheap. If you can load that tiger back up and take him back on Saturday. You will be amazed how much easier the rest of the cattle will be to handle. If you don't have the facilities to load him without getting yourself hurt make arrangements to have him put in the freezer.
Dave
Ratfish
Well-known member
I didn't realize that you could tell about a steer by how they hold their head...that's interesting.
As far as him running around, they were all running around when we first got them. I imagine that they don't like being in a truck all that much.
Dave: We purchased these steers from a local fellow who likely got them from a saleyard. They were all $495 delivered. We may not have gotten a great deal, but we have no means by which we could pick steers up somewhere else so delivery included was nice. They're all healthy, vigorous, and eating well so I am not disappointed at all.
I've been reading a book about the American Brahman (that is, admittedly, published by the ABBA) that is saying that they winter well and that the F1s exhibit a substantial level of hybrid vigor.
Oh, and I didn't mean that we would be driving the vehicles. I meant parking them across the road so they couldn't go up the driveway. They don't seem to try to test gates/fences so I don't think they would try to do a long jump over a vehicle, but who knows, maybe they'll surprise us. The distance they have to go is about 100 yards. We might skip the vehicle part if it sounds like a bad idea though. By myself I have been able to, walking in a circuitous manner, get them to go where I want, so a few us shouldn't have all that much trouble. And like I said, if they get away for a bit, they're not on the interstate, they're just in a different fenced in part of the property.
I think I will be able to manage them fine, and if I stop posting for a couple of weeks, you'll know I'm dead.
Really though, a lot of you are talking as though I purchased an actual tiger. If the Herefords have a fairly good disposition and most everything I have read about Brahmans states that they are docile if handled properly, why would the offspring of the two be insane? I suppose if you release your cattle into a massive tract of land and never have contact with them they'll be wild, but we simply don't have the space or inclination to do that.
As far as him running around, they were all running around when we first got them. I imagine that they don't like being in a truck all that much.
Dave: We purchased these steers from a local fellow who likely got them from a saleyard. They were all $495 delivered. We may not have gotten a great deal, but we have no means by which we could pick steers up somewhere else so delivery included was nice. They're all healthy, vigorous, and eating well so I am not disappointed at all.
I've been reading a book about the American Brahman (that is, admittedly, published by the ABBA) that is saying that they winter well and that the F1s exhibit a substantial level of hybrid vigor.
Oh, and I didn't mean that we would be driving the vehicles. I meant parking them across the road so they couldn't go up the driveway. They don't seem to try to test gates/fences so I don't think they would try to do a long jump over a vehicle, but who knows, maybe they'll surprise us. The distance they have to go is about 100 yards. We might skip the vehicle part if it sounds like a bad idea though. By myself I have been able to, walking in a circuitous manner, get them to go where I want, so a few us shouldn't have all that much trouble. And like I said, if they get away for a bit, they're not on the interstate, they're just in a different fenced in part of the property.
I think I will be able to manage them fine, and if I stop posting for a couple of weeks, you'll know I'm dead.
Really though, a lot of you are talking as though I purchased an actual tiger. If the Herefords have a fairly good disposition and most everything I have read about Brahmans states that they are docile if handled properly, why would the offspring of the two be insane? I suppose if you release your cattle into a massive tract of land and never have contact with them they'll be wild, but we simply don't have the space or inclination to do that.
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
you can take a docile brahman and hereford and mate them and still have a fireball offspring to deal with. its that hybrid vigor that makes em a little off plumb. if i were you id just let this thread fizzle out and keep him feed him a little extra and let it be a lesson learned. im willing to forget the blanket idea 
warpaint
Well-known member
1. automobiles are not fences or gates. No matter how close together you get them, there will still be a gap. Any gap seen is one they will go thru.
2. try to put that blanket on that steer and you will wish you did have a real tiger by the tail.
3. sounds like you have made up your mind, so why ask for advice? Go ahead and do it your way. :roll:
2. try to put that blanket on that steer and you will wish you did have a real tiger by the tail.
3. sounds like you have made up your mind, so why ask for advice? Go ahead and do it your way. :roll:
Dusty Britches
Well-known member
Ratfish -
I wasn't going to post because of all the other advice given already. But, hear me out.
Yes, you can tell the disposition of an animal by the way they hold their head. Watch and study the F1's "personality" and compare it to the others. The pictures show that F1's head high when he runs and the Hereford's heads are level. The F1 keeps his head high because he is nervous and always looking for a way to go. The higher his head, the more he can see. The Herf's heads are level - they don't care to run and hide as much as they just want to keep their eye on you. They aren't nervous and have no need to constantly look for escape routes.
When you cross breed any purebreds, you lose some characteristics of the purebreds. For some reason unknowst to most of us (or at least me) the Brahama / Hereford F1 cross results in rangy cattle. While this is desirable on big ranches where the cattle have to cover a lot of ground and watch for predators, it is highly undesirable in a small farm setting.
You said you got these steers as a package deal. Commonly, packages are put together to have equal animals, but more often then not, one is thrown in b/c it can't be sold by itself. In your case, it will be the Brammer cross. If you doubt that, than ask yourself this - why do the rest of them look Hereford and this one stands out?
Now, not to knock F1's - I have 3 of them. They are Brammer and Angus crosses. They are among the most docile in my herd. (They aren't pets.) They are in the top group for milking, birth weight, weaning weights and fertility. Their calves are equally docile. And they are the most protective in the herd. They will do anything to protect the babies and they are the first on the scene when one bawls.
They haven't charged the fence - yet. I'm sure they already know where the low spots and weak spots are and will push it when they feel the need to.
Since they are all steers, I'm thinking you are just feeding them out to 700 pounds and selling them. If so, you will learn a lot about F1 Tigerstripes versus Herefords.
Good luck, and please be careful. Your tigerstripe will survive the winter, a bit cold, but he will survive.
I wasn't going to post because of all the other advice given already. But, hear me out.
Yes, you can tell the disposition of an animal by the way they hold their head. Watch and study the F1's "personality" and compare it to the others. The pictures show that F1's head high when he runs and the Hereford's heads are level. The F1 keeps his head high because he is nervous and always looking for a way to go. The higher his head, the more he can see. The Herf's heads are level - they don't care to run and hide as much as they just want to keep their eye on you. They aren't nervous and have no need to constantly look for escape routes.
When you cross breed any purebreds, you lose some characteristics of the purebreds. For some reason unknowst to most of us (or at least me) the Brahama / Hereford F1 cross results in rangy cattle. While this is desirable on big ranches where the cattle have to cover a lot of ground and watch for predators, it is highly undesirable in a small farm setting.
You said you got these steers as a package deal. Commonly, packages are put together to have equal animals, but more often then not, one is thrown in b/c it can't be sold by itself. In your case, it will be the Brammer cross. If you doubt that, than ask yourself this - why do the rest of them look Hereford and this one stands out?
Now, not to knock F1's - I have 3 of them. They are Brammer and Angus crosses. They are among the most docile in my herd. (They aren't pets.) They are in the top group for milking, birth weight, weaning weights and fertility. Their calves are equally docile. And they are the most protective in the herd. They will do anything to protect the babies and they are the first on the scene when one bawls.
They haven't charged the fence - yet. I'm sure they already know where the low spots and weak spots are and will push it when they feel the need to.
Since they are all steers, I'm thinking you are just feeding them out to 700 pounds and selling them. If so, you will learn a lot about F1 Tigerstripes versus Herefords.
Good luck, and please be careful. Your tigerstripe will survive the winter, a bit cold, but he will survive.
Ratfish
Well-known member
Dusty: Thanks a lot for the informative post. Is the deal we got a fair one at atll? Having looked around it seemed to be decent, and since I'm planning on rotating the 5 out and keeping the F1, his value at the sale barn is irrelevant.
I think of this Brahman like I think of women: the ones that are the easiest are nice and all, but you don't respect them and wouldn't marry them. It's the ones where you have to earn their respect and tame a bit that are worth more to you in the end.
We were planning on selling the 5 around this time next year, so I would think they would be a bit more than 700 pounds then.
You are absolutely right about the tigerstripe though insofar as him acting differently than the others. I just took it to mean that he wasn't as dumb as an average steer.
Being new as I am, I am always very careful around all of them because I am not acquainted to all of the signs just yet. I'm not trying to put a saddle on it or anything like that.
I was reading that in cold weather they put on a pretty good coat and that their dewlap and other extra skin tightens up too so I think he will be alright. We have a lot of tree cover and windbreaks so they won't be out in the open.
I think of this Brahman like I think of women: the ones that are the easiest are nice and all, but you don't respect them and wouldn't marry them. It's the ones where you have to earn their respect and tame a bit that are worth more to you in the end.
We were planning on selling the 5 around this time next year, so I would think they would be a bit more than 700 pounds then.
You are absolutely right about the tigerstripe though insofar as him acting differently than the others. I just took it to mean that he wasn't as dumb as an average steer.
Being new as I am, I am always very careful around all of them because I am not acquainted to all of the signs just yet. I'm not trying to put a saddle on it or anything like that.
I was reading that in cold weather they put on a pretty good coat and that their dewlap and other extra skin tightens up too so I think he will be alright. We have a lot of tree cover and windbreaks so they won't be out in the open.
aplusmnt
Well-known member
Ratfish":1nnd7wvc said:
Why are you keeping the Tiger? Are you going to eat him or keep as a pet or something?
If keeping as a pet why did you pick the Tiger out of the 6?
Or are you just trying to incite us?
Ps. How many women have you tamed? I figure as many as Tigers, seeing how Tigers are probably like a puppy dog compared to trying to tame a woman. ;-)
Ratfish
Well-known member
I wanted to keep one around so that we wouldn't have to worry as much about coyotes pestering the calves when we get them each year. I also happen to like the look of Brahmans, even those with a Hereford admixture. Apparently he is the least valuable of the 6 so I may as well keep that one anyway.
As for the taming of women, that's merely hypothetical, as I haven't heard of all that many that have been tamed. Mine is far from halter broke, but manageable nonetheless.
As for the taming of women, that's merely hypothetical, as I haven't heard of all that many that have been tamed. Mine is far from halter broke, but manageable nonetheless.
