Hobby farmers/ranchers and the beef industry

[Beef11]

As far as small operations go there are some common problems that seem to plague the operators who are not in it for a primary source of income. One being that the lack of uniformity from smaller outfits has really come under fire as of late in the industry. Most everybody has their own idea of a perfect cross and when ten producer with ten different programs with 20 cows in it send them all to the ring you get 200 calves of all colors shapes and sizes. This isn't a real big deal to a large operator because they recieve a premium for uniformity. On the other hand it is hard to compete with people who only prefer to make money.

It would go against everything this country was built upon to take away peoples right to their pasture ornaments. In the future i think the premiums will go even more to the big producer.

 

[aplusmnt]

But I would like someone to seriuosly tell me the negitive impact a hobby cattle person has on the beef industry.

Thanks,
Alan

Ways a Hobby guy (someone not trying to make a proffit) might have a negative inpact on the beef industy.

1. The less cattle the higher prices usually go, supply and demand. Much like illegal immigrants work cheaper and under cut the work force pushing prices down. Hobby guys could flood the market pushing prices down even though they do not do it to feed their families they have an affect on those that do as a business to feed their families.

2. Hay prices, when people do not care the price of hay or feed because they are not in it to make money the push hay prices up. Basically affecting the supply and demand market for Hay which cost those that raise cattle to feed their families to be competitive for it and pay more money.

3. Land Prices, cattle man that are needing more acreage to expand their business have to compete in price for land that is being divided into 5, 10, 20 acre lots.

4. Breeding Animal prices. Hobby guys can push up the cost of say a bred cow, or bred heifer because they do not bid with profit in mind they bid higher either out of no understanding of the market or they do not care just want her because the want her.

Just a few reasons off the cuff that maybe a Hobby guy could affect a full time Rancher. The biggest key not being how many head or how many acres but rather they are in it to make money or even know how to tell if they are or not.

 

[Caustic Burno]

They have on thier lot what sells, I still dont see how the makes a difference to the "real farmer"
I have never known a real farmer to buy new anyhow??? :shock:

MD

That was my point maybe not well made.
They don't care what they spend or what kind of product they produce.
Go to any thread look at my new herd bull(cull).
They actually think these POS's have potential.

 

[S.R.R.]

But I would like someone to seriuosly tell me the negitive impact a hobby cattle person has on the beef industry.
Thanks,
Alan

One quick example.
One of the places I have bought hay from for years raised their price by 5$ a bale. When I asked him why he said that the hobby guys will pay more so that is what he is charging from now on.

At 5$ more a bale there was no way I could buy the number of bale from him that I had bought previous years instead I had to find a new supplier. ( which was not fun.)

 

[Wewild]

As stated above and before, a major example is buying power.

 

[C HOLLAND]

It's not the size as much as the attitude I think that does more harm. They don't really count cost and try to run a profitable operation. They want a new tractor so they buy it they don't care what a bale of hay cost they know they need twenty rolls and pay whatever. It is more of a status symbol to drive the 40,000 dollar truck with the 10,000 dollar trailer with a ten gallon hat. This so they can tell everyone they are cattlemen or "cowboys" and get there ag excemtions on the Ponderosa.

It's kinda like I am in oil and gas I have oil on my hair and gas on my belly.

Both are a BS job.[/quote]

Caustic: This may be one of your best post

I am in the gas business too.

1: I dont have a new tractor. I bought 1 from my brother in law for $1,000.00 and it came with all the basic implements and I purchased a post hole auger and a hay spear and a seed spreader. I drive a 1997 F150 and I count every penny I spend and have a pretty good idea what it cost me to raise each calf.(my best estimate for now is $328.00 per head)
I do this for profit and the enjoyment I get each day I am working on my land. I hope to run my small farm (50 brood cows is my goal) until I am 75 (20 more years) if my health holds out. I buy all my hay, and most of that comes from large farms around my area and they appreciate the dollars too because they always try to grow more than they need. I pay around 25-30 dollars a roll (some promised and some not delivered from LIARS AND CROOKS)
I have 2 cowboy hats and they sit on a shelf in the house, and if you see me in town you will probally see me with a ball cap on advertising my AI rep or the ONLY college FB Team (NOLES)

I personally dont plan to be on the same level as you are, but I dont think it will upset you any if I am the one that buys the next load of heifers you sell, especially if you get 5-10 % more for them because some of us small cattle people show up at the sale.

Caustic, this is not meant to be negative towards you, it's just in general how I feel alot of the smaller people approach this business. We are not all AIRHEADS and just love what we are doing.

 

[Alice]

I personally dont plan to be on the same level as you are, but I dont think it will upset you any if I am the one that buys the next load of heifers you sell, especially if you get 5-10 % more for them because some of us small cattle people show up at the sale.

Oh yeah, and there ya' go! Thank you!

Alice

 

[redfornow]

They have on thier lot what sells, I still dont see how the makes a difference to the "real farmer"
I have never known a real farmer to buy new anyhow??? :shock:

MD

That was my point maybe not well made.
They don't care what they spend or what kind of product they produce.
Go to any thread look at my new herd bull(cull).
They actually think these POS's have potential.

Now I agree with you that there are some sorry bulls, not just on this board but running about breeding cows that should have been steers.

That does happen more to the small guy more than those that run more than a few head.
I think its for the opposite reason that you think though.
Its that the small timer many times goes in with LESS than they should for a good bull budget.
Last year got ready to sell a three year old herd bull, you would be shocked at the people that show up and want to give 900 or a thousand for a bull. lol
You can find a good bull at that price, but it takes an eye and time.
The small guy most of the time has neither.
I wish they would just learn to read the ad...

Interesting points though.

MD

 

[Cheyenne]

First of all I am a hobbyist, but someday when I grow up(I'm 37 now) I want to be a full fledged farmer. (Sorry, that is the term used in Iowa) Anyway I usually try to stay out of this typical board discussion, but this is really starting to get to me.

The general assumption that all hobby farmers/ranchers are buying new tractors and driving expensive new trucks is just a bunch of, well you know. These people are more than likely your professionals ie: Doctors, lawyers, etc. looking for a hobby, ag exemption, tax break what have you.

I am currently working on paying my dues, we don't have any loans for what we have. I buy used as much as possible and I make sure I know what market prices are before I go to any sales. I am running our diverse little operation while my husband is in Iraq, so I have to make sure and make every cent count.

So I guess to get to my point of all of this is that in the future could we maybe not make such a broad generalization of hobby farmers/ranchers. Or maybe come up with a new term for the hobbyist that starts out with pockets full of money to spend. I'm not offended by being called a hobby farmer, just by the generalization that all hobby farmers don't know what the heck we are doing.

I don't post very often, but I read alot, so I know Caustic likes to stir the pot with hobby comments. But such a broad generalization doesn't do justice to those working hard at what they do.

 

[Texan]

Ways a Hobby guy (someone not trying to make a proffit) might have a negative inpact on the beef industy.

1. The less cattle the higher prices usually go, supply and demand. Much like illegal immigrants work cheaper and under cut the work force pushing prices down. Hobby guys could flood the market pushing prices down even though they do not do it to feed their families they have an affect on those that do as a business to feed their families.

2. Hay prices, when people do not care the price of hay or feed because they are not in it to make money the push hay prices up. Basically affecting the supply and demand market for Hay which cost those that raise cattle to feed their families to be competitive for it and pay more money.

3. Land Prices, cattle man that are needing more acreage to expand their business have to compete in price for land that is being divided into 5, 10, 20 acre lots.

4. Breeding Animal prices. Hobby guys can push up the cost of say a bred cow, or bred heifer because they do not bid with profit in mind they bid higher either out of no understanding of the market or they do not care just want her because the want her.

Just a few reasons off the cuff that maybe a Hobby guy could affect a full time Rancher. The biggest key not being how many head or how many acres but rather they are in it to make money or even know how to tell if they are or not.

Very good post. I think it's about time for you to change your signature.

 

[Alan]

First of several comments, Caustic is who he is and he has giving me lots of great advice, both direct and by his postings. So my feeling is, this is not about Caustic or anyone else.... sorry Caustic Hope I didn't give you less targets, but I do respect your knowledge greatly.

Alan

 

[backhoeboogie]

There's logic in this thread.

As far as hay prices going up a whopping $5, they are up $50 a bale here, IF you can find it. I've got no more to sell and my phone is steadily ringing.

 

[Texan]

I am running our diverse little operation while my husband is in Iraq, so I have to make sure and make every cent count.

Thank your husband for his service, whether active military or contractor. And thank you for the sacrifices you make while doing without him. We need more hobby farmers like you.

 

[Alan]

For you that posted that "hobby" people drive up the price of hay, and tractors... I'll throw in land. You're right, but you don't hear the guys selling the product complain. It is an ever changing industry and you (we) as an industry need to realize it. If a hobby guy wants to pay you too much for hay or a tractor, take the money and smile. If a hobby guy wants to pay you too much for a bull or heifer, take advantage of it and smile. I don't think that Hobby people are influencing the price of cattle, I don't think we are changing the numbers of cattle going to market. It is a changing demographic, keep up or get left behind.

Alan

 

[redfornow]

I am running our diverse little operation while my husband is in Iraq, so I have to make sure and make every cent count.

Thank your husband for his service, whether active military or contractor. And thank you for the sacrifices you make while doing without him. We need more hobby farmers like you.

Amen to that.
Hope he is home safe soon

MD

 

[redfornow]

For you that posted that "hobby" people drive up the price of hay, and tractors... I'll throw in land. You're right, but you don't hear the guys selling the product complain. It is an ever changing industry and you (we) as an industry need to realize it. If a hobby guy wants to pay you too much for hay or a tractor, take the money and smile. If a hobby guy wants to pay you too much for a bull or heifer, take advantage of it and smile. I don't think that Hobby people are influencing the price of cattle, I don't think we are changing the numbers of cattle going to market. It is a changing demographic, keep up or get left behind.

Alan

Alan

You seem to get smarter with every post...

MD

 

[Alan]

and maybe I misread the intent of S.R.R. post.
Alan

You did.

Please tell me how, I do apoligize if I did. Hobby people (I say people out of respect for the gals on the boards, many good ones) have been hammered in the past, so is the reason for my post.

Alan

 

[Alan]

edited

 

[Alan]

I am running our diverse little operation while my husband is in Iraq, so I have to make sure and make every cent count.

Forget this nonsense, your husbands safety and service is what counts. Thank you, your husband, and your family for taking care of our great country. Do what it takes to keep your place, so he can come home to a place to call your own. Land is precious, god isn't making anymore.

Thank you and your family,
Alan

 

[la4angus]

My prayers are with you and your husband. Not many men have a wife that could take care of the farm and keep it running while he is defending all of us here in this great country.
May God Bless You and your husband and your family.