Some thoughts and questions about beef

[Ky hills]

We used to hear about lean beef being healthy, now the industry is promoting more marbling and some folks are bragging about Wagyu beef.
I've always thought there was more to the story about beef quality than marbling itself, but that is the main factor used in determining quality grades.
Why is it that lean beef was promoted as healthier and now people are wanting meat that's half fat? I always figured the lean beef craze based on it supposedly being healthier was a crock.
Me personally I don't want that excess fat that a lot of wagyu beef pictures show.
After the description of it from someone in another thread, I'm pretty sure I would not want Wagyu beef period.
It seems like Angus are trying to become more like Wagyu, with breeding for more marbling. In doing so I'm afraid that maternal traits are going to be lost.
Back in the subject of lean beef and marbling. I've known people that swore by Charolais and Linousin beef, yet because of marbling most people don't think they will be as good Angus for beef.
I can't say for sure but our Hereford beef has been just as good as our Angus beef, and both have been great.
My thinking is that it may take longer on feed to get the same results from breeds like Charolais and Limousin.

 

[Brute 23]

The story is the fat in marbling is the healthy fat and the fat hanging off the side is the bad fat. Not saying that my deal... just saying what they claim.

That is the big part that gets left out of most of these discussions, it's not that one can do it and one can't, it's that one does it more efficiently (cheaper) than the other. It has less to do with the consumer and more with the bottom line.

if you pump enough corn to most cattle you will elevate their meat quality.

 

[mwj]

There are extremes in both directions. The majority of the market lays in the middle.

 

[Stickney94]

Wagyu fat potentially is healthier than other beef breeds (or less unhealthy). This was the only scholarly article that I see that in (it's a few scrolls down under Fatty Acid composition): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5243954/

If you haven't tried FB Wagyu or Wagyu cross beef from a reputable supplier or restaurant (not Walmart and not Arby's) I'd say you can't judge a book by it's cover.

 

[Chuckie]

That is one of the reasons I wanted to get my Grandson's into the Piedmontese. Not to charge high prices either. Same as Angus. But for one, they increase the size of your calf. The meat is crazy tender because of the double muscle gene, that has little fat. It has the same properties as chicken as far as cholesterol. I see the people what they charge for the meat, but I cannot afford to pay that, and I won't pay it. And will never charge a friend that price either. You can't make money off your enemies. I told them if we just keep a few animals to keep us meat in the freezer, and then they can sell to some friends. If they ever start jacking the price up, then they will lose the friends and be stuck with some over priced cows to feed. You can tear the meat with your fingers, and being Jersey... all I can say is that it's good. Anyone could get a cow or a bull and raise a calf each year if they had Cholesterol problems, or bad teeth, (Ha-ha) and be able to eat a steak when you are 90 even if you gum it. You wouldn't have to buy a whole herd of them. I do love my Angus. I know about the Angus but this is something new and I am learning and it sort of gives me a new direction after so much changed after the Covid BS. I guess I am saying it gives me something to look forward to. Here is a chart of where the stands as far as fat and cholesterol. I am not trying to sell an animal to anyone as I have none to sell. But just showing the difference in how it compares to chicken as far as health wise.

 

[Chuckie]

In that chart, if you cross one Piedmontese cow and an Angus Bull, where the calf is 50/50, see in that chart how much you change the value of your meat? You raise the protein and stop the calories and cholesterol too. Just one or two cows in your heard to raise a calf to put up in the freezer. And it being a one copy gene carrier, it will still make the meat more tender.

 

[Warren Allison]

We used to hear about lean beef being healthy, now the industry is promoting more marbling and some folks are bragging about Wagyu beef.
I've always thought there was more to the story about beef quality than marbling itself, but that is the main factor used in determining quality grades.
Why is it that lean beef was promoted as healthier and now people are wanting meat that's half fat? I always figured the lean beef craze based on it supposedly being healthier was a crock.
Me personally I don't want that excess fat that a lot of wagyu beef pictures show.
After the description of it from someone in another thread, I'm pretty sure I would not want Wagyu beef period.
It seems like Angus are trying to become more like Wagyu, with breeding for more marbling. In doing so I'm afraid that maternal traits are going to be lost.
Back in the subject of lean beef and marbling. I've known people that swore by Charolais and Linousin beef, yet because of marbling most people don't think they will be as good Angus for beef.
I can't say for sure but our Hereford beef has been just as good as our Angus beef, and both have been great.
My thinking is that it may take longer on feed to get the same results from breeds like Charolais and Limousin.

Well, the lean beef is better for you is just fake news like margerine and Crisco is better for you than butter and lard. A human can go carb free for a long time, and for aa while protein free,. But you won't last long with a fat free diet.

 

[Little Joe]

We used to hear about lean beef being healthy, now the industry is promoting more marbling and some folks are bragging about Wagyu beef.
I've always thought there was more to the story about beef quality than marbling itself, but that is the main factor used in determining quality grades.
Why is it that lean beef was promoted as healthier and now people are wanting meat that's half fat? I always figured the lean beef craze based on it supposedly being healthier was a crock.
Me personally I don't want that excess fat that a lot of wagyu beef pictures show.
After the description of it from someone in another thread, I'm pretty sure I would not want Wagyu beef period.
It seems like Angus are trying to become more like Wagyu, with breeding for more marbling. In doing so I'm afraid that maternal traits are going to be lost.
Back in the subject of lean beef and marbling. I've known people that swore by Charolais and Linousin beef, yet because of marbling most people don't think they will be as good Angus for beef.
I can't say for sure but our Hereford beef has been just as good as our Angus beef, and both have been great.
My thinking is that it may take longer on feed to get the same results from breeds like Charolais and Limousin.

There are plenty of Dr's out there now that will tell you that the whole low fat deal was a sham. Dr's that are doing their own research and wanting real results for their patients. When my triglycerides were real high as well as cholesterol and liver enzymes, I went to a holistic Dr, she was a sure enough Dr and could write prescriptions and such just like any other Dr but she wouldn't. First thing she said was "if you're not willing to eat right, then you're wasting your money and my time". Her philosophy as well as many other holistic type Dr's was that sugar,carbs, processed foods and vegetable oil were the cause of most heath problems and eating correctly would show improvement for any heath problems. She told me eat all of the meat and fat I wanted. Cook with butter,lard, olive oil, coconut oil,bacon grease, never with seed oils such as canola, vegetable,peanut or sunflower oils. She as well as most of the other holistic Dr's are saying that high cholesterol really isn't that big a deal, she told me never take statins. After following her advice my triglycerides was the lowest they had been since my early 20s cholesterol dropped but not as low as traditional Dr's want it to be and my liver enzymes are perfect. I eat a ton of animal fats.

 

[Ky hills]

Yeah I never bought into all the meat and eggs and other real food is bad for people. My grandmother lived to almost 98 and she was a meat eater right. She ate beef, a lot of pork, a lot of fried chicken. She was all time cooking usually frying something and making desserts. She made of fun of people that wouldn't eat meat or were dieting.

 

[coachg]

My father in law lived to be 98 yrs and 11 months . You could float a battleship in the grease he cooked his food in and or put in his dishes . He ate meat every meal . Pork mostly for breakfast and beef or fried chicken for lunch and supper. Eggs for breakfast , and sorghum syrup or honey on his biscuits. The catch was his genetics. Almost every family member , siblings, cousins, aunts and uncles lived in their 90's . One aunt 101 . A lot of misinformation has been put out about our diets for years .

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Well, the lean beef is better for you is just fake news like margerine and Crisco is better for you than butter and lard. A human can go carb free for a long time, and for aa while protein free,. But you won't last long with a fat free diet.

The more appropriate approach is: "All things in moderation". That being said, has anyone ever looked up/noticed that the advent of vegetable oil, cottonseed oil, margarine coincides with a dramatic increase in heart disease and diabetes? I can't say that they are the cause, but also consider that red meat intake did not dramatically change at the time the diabetes and heart disease did. Based on that, I can conclude that red meat is not the causative factor it is made out to be, nor butter for that matter.

 

[Little Joe]

The more appropriate approach is: "All things in moderation". That being said, has anyone ever looked up/noticed that the advent of vegetable oil, cottonseed oil, margarine coincides with a dramatic increase in heart disease and diabetes? I can't say that they are the cause, but also consider that red meat intake did not dramatically change at the time the diabetes and heart disease did. Based on that, I can conclude that red meat is not the causative factor it is made out to be, nor butter for that matter.

That's exactly what I've been told and have heard. Also look up how shortening originated and how they convinced people it was better for you than lard. It was originally a lubricant for tanks in Germany I believe, after war was over they couldn't sell it so started pushing it as a healthy alternative to lard.

 

[Travlr]

We used to hear about lean beef being healthy, now the industry is promoting more marbling and some folks are bragging about Wagyu beef.
I've always thought there was more to the story about beef quality than marbling itself, but that is the main factor used in determining quality grades.
Why is it that lean beef was promoted as healthier and now people are wanting meat that's half fat? I always figured the lean beef craze based on it supposedly being healthier was a crock.
Me personally I don't want that excess fat that a lot of wagyu beef pictures show.
After the description of it from someone in another thread, I'm pretty sure I would not want Wagyu beef period.
It seems like Angus are trying to become more like Wagyu, with breeding for more marbling. In doing so I'm afraid that maternal traits are going to be lost.
Back in the subject of lean beef and marbling. I've known people that swore by Charolais and Linousin beef, yet because of marbling most people don't think they will be as good Angus for beef.
I can't say for sure but our Hereford beef has been just as good as our Angus beef, and both have been great.
My thinking is that it may take longer on feed to get the same results from breeds like Charolais and Limousin.

I LIKE fat... but the Wagyu thing turns me off. Can't really say anything about the health aspects, but everyone advocates for their own conclusions and those conclusions are usually based on either dollars or who they've been listening to.

My experience with Charolaise is limited. Only one animal and It was probably the worst beef I've ever had. Tough and not much for taste. On the other hand the Lims, Hereford, and Angus have been great. And Belgian Blue...

I think you make a good point about Angus going toward the Wagyu product model. Pretty sure they see it as a growing threat so it wouldn't surprise me if they are interested in being the American version of Wagyu.

I don't doubt the public will slide one way or another as popular opinions change, but I'm happy with a good steak from any of the European breeds as long as it has some marbling and cover fat, and is tender. I ought to try another Charolais but the opportunity hasn't come up. If I was disappointed in the second one I'd probably not try another.

 

[shaz]

There are plenty of Dr's out there now that will tell you that the whole low fat deal was a sham. Dr's that are doing their own research and wanting real results for their patients. When my triglycerides were real high as well as cholesterol and liver enzymes, I went to a holistic Dr, she was a sure enough Dr and could write prescriptions and such just like any other Dr but she wouldn't. First thing she said was "if you're not willing to eat right, then you're wasting your money and my time". Her philosophy as well as many other holistic type Dr's was that sugar,carbs, processed foods and vegetable oil were the cause of most heath problems and eating correctly would show improvement for any heath problems. She told me eat all of the meat and fat I wanted. Cook with butter,lard, olive oil, coconut oil,bacon grease, never with seed oils such as canola, vegetable,peanut or sunflower oils. She as well as most of the other holistic Dr's are saying that high cholesterol really isn't that big a deal, she told me never take statins. After following her advice my triglycerides was the lowest they had been since my early 20s cholesterol dropped but not as low as traditional Dr's want it to be and my liver enzymes are perfect. I eat a ton of animal fats.

Nina Teicholz has done the best work on exposing the diet heart hypothesis scam. Wrote a book called the "Big Fat Surprise".

 

[gcreekrch]

I LIKE fat... but the Wagyu thing turns me off. Can't really say anything about the health aspects, but everyone advocates for their own conclusions and those conclusions are usually based on either dollars or who they've been listening to.

My experience with Charolaise is limited. Only one animal and It was probably the worst beef I've ever had. Tough and not much for taste. On the other hand the Lims, Hereford, and Angus have been great. And Belgian Blue...

I think you make a good point about Angus going toward the Wagyu product model. Pretty sure they see it as a growing threat so it wouldn't surprise me if they are interested in being the American version of Wagyu.

I don't doubt the public will slide one way or another as popular opinions change, but I'm happy with a good steak from any of the European breeds as long as it has some marbling and cover fat, and is tender. I ought to try another Charolais but the opportunity hasn't come up. If I was disappointed in the second one I'd probably not try another.

This was a half Charolais calf we raised in 2022 and ended up as a 4H steer. When I asked the feedlot why they hadn't sold him a better one they said this one was gentle.
We bought him at the 4H sale and put him in the freezer. Third photo was another of our Charx Angus steers.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

There are plenty of Dr's out there now that will tell you that the whole low fat deal was a sham. Dr's that are doing their own research and wanting real results for their patients. When my triglycerides were real high as well as cholesterol and liver enzymes, I went to a holistic Dr, she was a sure enough Dr and could write prescriptions and such just like any other Dr but she wouldn't. First thing she said was "if you're not willing to eat right, then you're wasting your money and my time". Her philosophy as well as many other holistic type Dr's was that sugar,carbs, processed foods and vegetable oil were the cause of most heath problems and eating correctly would show improvement for any heath problems. She told me eat all of the meat and fat I wanted. Cook with butter,lard, olive oil, coconut oil,bacon grease, never with seed oils such as canola, vegetable,peanut or sunflower oils. She as well as most of the other holistic Dr's are saying that high cholesterol really isn't that big a deal, she told me never take statins. After following her advice my triglycerides was the lowest they had been since my early 20s cholesterol dropped but not as low as traditional Dr's want it to be and my liver enzymes are perfect. I eat a ton of animal fats.

The real problem is society and the belief that we know better than natural selection or God and we can make anything work if we just think its right and throw some pills at it. I don't think that developing a pill over the course of 5 years or less is going to effectively change what has taken 100s of 1000s of years to evolve. People can't simply replace eating meat with vegetables and processed vegetable oil because it has been deemed 'bad for you' by someone. Like it or not, our bodies developed as meat eaters and we are dependent upon doing that in so many ways that science hasn't even begun to conceive of, let alone find an alternative to that is supposedly better. As for saying this meat or that meat is bad for you, why is it bad for you? Oh, you mean that component of the meat that someone thought they could improve upon about 50 years ago so we started selectively breeding to 'enhance' it. I'd say 99% of our health problems are self inflicted and we only make them worse with our 'miracle cures'.

I need to work on my diet for my weight. I have done this over the past 2 years with interesting results though. There are all these drugs out there now designed to address weight (help you lose weight). I started using a treadmill about an hour a day about 6 days a week two years ago. My weight dropped a little, but not as much as I would have liked it to. However, my BP is now that of a 25 year old and my resting pulse is 40-44.
I have other things that I need to get checked that supposedly become problematic with being overweight, but based solely on my weight, society would have you believe that my BP an pulse rate should be considerably higher than what is considered healthy, and yet, my BP is that of a 25 year old and a nurse a month ago almost asked me if I had a pacemaker, but instead said to me, you work out, don't you? (I was seeing the nurse because I had a slight headache. First time I had been to the clinic in the federal building. I had no idea they were darn near going to give me a complete physical to get two Tylenol).

 

[sstterry]

It all started with the Sugar Industry. Also, you can look at the success of Ketogenic Diets and see the results of eating healthy fats and proteins rather than processed carbohydrates.

50 Years Ago, Sugar Industry Quietly Paid Scientists To Point Blame At Fat

Sugar Industry and Coronary Heart Disease Research

 

[Little Joe]

I've finished out several types of cattle, charolais and charolais crossed, angus crossed, criollo crossed, hereford crossed, and some that I had no guess as to what they were. They've all finished within about a 10-15% similarity range as far as tenderness and marbling, the main difference has between them has been hanging weights and the size of the steaks correlate to the hanging weights. If you put a steak on a plate from each one I've ever sent to be processed, the only way you would guess one from the other would be size. As far as hanging weights, the happy medium for me and my customers is 650-700, any bigger and the steaks are getting too big and a lot of people can't afford to pay what one that hangs more than that would cost and at 650-700 I'm where I need to be in the money. Bigger hanging weights obviously pay me more but I have to produce what customers want and can afford. I've had a few that hung at around 800 and a T- bone would hang off of a full size plate.
I actually read something a while back about the cuts getting too big for restaurants and such because the cattle are so big now when finished, I can't imagine how big a steak from one that hangs at 1000 would be.

 

[Mountaintown Creek Ranch]

Characteristics and Health Benefit of Highly Marbled Wagyu and Hanwoo Beef

This review addresses the characteristics and health benefit of highly marbled Wagyu and Hanwoo beef. Marbling of Wagyu and Hanwoo beef has been increased in Japan and Korea to meet domestic consumer preferences. Wagyu and Hanwoo cattle have high potential ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Mountaintown Creek Ranch]

The article I posted explains that the Japanese do not concentrate on the meat being their main dish at dinner, their main dish is rice and the beef is a side dish. Unlike Americans which meat is the main focus.
They're also three types of Wagyu fat and all fat does not taste the same.
Wagyu have a genetic mutation that changes Valine to Alanine, the presence of A type amino acids have lower melting point of fat.
The best (preferred) SCD designation is AA ; 18% of Wagyu are designated as AA, 74% VA, and 8% VV. Percentage is subject to change based on genetics