Hereford Today

[alexfarms]

I don't blame them. Discussions are alot more productive face to face.

If the entire "Strategy" committee, the "Board", and the "Executives", were all to register in this forum, we would not know who they were as they could be anonymous if they so desired. If they don't have a computer or if they are computer illiterate, I would be much obliged to assist them in any way I could. Once they get to pecking on the keyboard writing about important issues while they are eating a sandwich watching CNBC in their own home, maybe they can realize the power of reaching 3,800 active Hereford members simultanously anonymously.

How did you know I was watching cnbc?

 

[HerefordSire]

How did you know I was watching cnbc?

I knew you had an crush on Maria B. :mrgreen:

 

[Frankie]

I don't blame them. Discussions are alot more productive face to face.

True. IMO, Mr. Moon would be setting himself up to be beat up by anonymous posters who might or might not be Hereford breeders or members of the AHA. He'd have to defend everything the AHA has ever done, even if he had nothing to do with it. I think it would be a no win situation for him.

 

[Elder Statesman]

As far as the junior program goes, I totally disagree. If Herefords are ever going to establish themselves as one of the prominent breeds of the future, it's going to be through the junior program getting enough young people interested and keeping them interested. I think some breeders do a good job in this area, but far too many don't, including myself.

I agree the AHA has failed - but the ones that failed were the ones that were there 30-40 years ago and didn't properly respond to the challenges that the Angus folks put forth. They got outworked and outpromoted. The ones there today are in a deep hole trying to dig their way out with a much too small shovel handed to them by their predecessors.

And I agree - there's a whole lot that stinks about it!

George

I keep hearing about the youth are the future of the breed. If I'm not mistaken, the Jr. Hereford events have far more entries than the Angus. If youth programs translates into a successful breed, Herefords should be on top. That isn't the case though, is it? The majority of the youth who are showing Herefords have no interest in raising cattle the rest of their lives. It is a great youth learning activity, just like playing sports. But like most youth baseball players, that is not what their income is going to come from when they are adults. So lets don't make it out to be the saviour of the breed or cattle industry. I don't mind supporting the youth programs, but when their daddy's come pulling in with a truck and trailer a lot fancier than mine, I think they have enough NON-AG income to take care of their kid's hobby.

As for the mess that those in power 30-40 years ago created, some of those on the board today don't even know they are standing in a hole. I have talked to some who have no idea how the cattle industry works. There are some who get on the board because it will look good in their obituary. While there are some on the board who are very knowledgeable and have good intentions, they are saddled with working with board members who don't even know which end of the shovel to hang on to.

I don't think people realize how much of the AHA revenue comes from the registrations and transfers of the cattle raised by the range breeders. There are many who are now selling non-papered bulls because they are ticked off by the lack of support and service from the AHA. That is a lot of $$ that the AHA has lost out on because of the heavy focus on the fluff, not the meat industry.

 

[HerefordSire]

I don't blame them. Discussions are alot more productive face to face.

True. IMO, Mr. Moon would be setting himself up to be beat up by anonymous posters who might or might not be Hereford breeders or members of the AHA. He'd have to defend everything the AHA has ever done, even if he had nothing to do with it. I think it would be a no win situation for him.

That is probably very likely Frankie. If I were raising Angus, like you, and the Herefords were on the verge of changing their momentum, I would write something like you just did also, you know, just to make a point. :mrgreen:

 

[HerefordSire]

HerefordSire-

Just to express an opinion, I feel that you are operating from an optimistic premise, rather than a pragmatic one, BUT you are on the Main Line Track!

I have a tendency to be over optimistic and I am glad you pointed this out to me.

(1) Your hypothesis of locating FOREIGN buyers is patronizing to an extent, but the basic premise is reasonable - BUT - the expenses and time involved could be prohibitive.

It was not my sole intention to disclude domestic buyers without a strategy. The entire hypothetical solution is based upon currency spreads of the US Dollar versus the currency of the major foreign buyers. When the captured spread was favorable, the small to mid-size rancher would participate by receiving more dollars per pound for their Hereford or Hereford cross animals as the result of the "pass through". I could even qualify this one more step.....to not buy, for export, any CHB qualified beef from domestic small to mid-size ranchers and only buy non-qualified CHB Hereford crosses for export. While we a buying the non-qualified CHB crosses, would could also buy the qualified CHB animals while we were there to increase overall domestic CHB supply to land the Wal-Mart account.

(2) The hire mandate is insightful on your part, and could be very workable with the caveat of possible expenses and costs, which would have to be borne somewhere along the sales chain.

Yes, the major foreign buyers operating in a foreign currency would be ultimately paying for all incurred expenses.

(3) This facet of the merchandising protocol is another element of expense which could be a "bottle-neck" in the PROFIT corner of the commitment.

The strategy would not work as I intended it to if we were not able to switch non-Hereford breeders to raising Herefords and become a member of the new AHA.

The important aspect of these discussions on CattleToday is the fact that it is causing Hereford Breeder's (and ALL Beef Breeders for that matter) to THINK - rather than letting 'George' "Bell The Cat"! This is one way of enhancing the BU$INE$$ potential, but it requires EFFORT, DEDICATION, TIME - - -and ($$$!)

Good thinking, HerefordSire!

Thank-you for your help and patience Doc!

DOC HARRIS

 

[HerefordSire]

Herfordsire i hope you took note of the fact that Mr. Moon was unwilling to take part in our discussions.Because he dosen't do chat rooms. For a man in Mr. Moons position who will travel hundreds of miles to attend Herford meeting i would think he be looking for any forum to talk about Herford cattle. For sure one he could do from the comfort of his home for free. I am thinking Mr. Moon attends all the meetings just to get a pat on the head by the big boys.

A board like this is a dangerous thing. It can be much more direct than most face to face conversations where half the time is spent exchanging pleasantries about the weather and the wife and kids and what you say here is recorded for all to see and can be used against you if you mispeak. It is also a much faster pace than a speech, presentation, or paper so you haveto be able to think on your feet. It can be very challenging to say what you want to say without stepping on someone important's toes. I MIGHT be very cautious if I were in Mr Moon's shoes. Of course if registrations were increasing rapidly, dozens of new breeders were making big cattle purchases, CHB were growing at 15-20% a year, the AHA was rolling in money, etc one would think more folks would be here bragging about their accomplishments. Reluctance too speak sometimes sends its own message.

There is a BIG difference between discussing issues in a chat room anonymously and discussing issues face to face. As you can plainly see, a couple of members are changing their attitudes on this board OR are not posting as much as they would normally. I think this is because they don't want to get barred from the association as the result of getting down to the real issues and solutions. We need to argue instead of keeping these issues secret! This is holding Herefords back when managment and the board doesn't hear what they need to hear...THE TRUTH of what their members believe.

 

[HerefordSire]

I keep hearing about the youth are the future of the breed. If I'm not mistaken, the Jr. Hereford events have far more entries than the Angus. If youth programs translates into a successful breed, Herefords should be on top. That isn't the case though, is it? The majority of the youth who are showing Herefords have no interest in raising cattle the rest of their lives. It is a great youth learning activity, just like playing sports. But like most youth baseball players, that is not what their income is going to come from when they are adults. So lets don't make it out to be the saviour of the breed or cattle industry. I don't mind supporting the youth programs, but when their daddy's come pulling in with a truck and trailer a lot fancier than mine, I think they have enough NON-AG income to take care of their kid's hobby.

As for the mess that those in power 30-40 years ago created, some of those on the board today don't even know they are standing in a hole. I have talked to some who have no idea how the cattle industry works. There are some who get on the board because it will look good in their obituary. While there are some on the board who are very knowledgeable and have good intentions, they are saddled with working with board members who don't even know which end of the shovel to hang on to.

I don't think people realize how much of the AHA revenue comes from the registrations and transfers of the cattle raised by the range breeders. There are many who are now selling non-papered bulls because they are ticked off by the lack of support and service from the AHA. That is a lot of $$ that the AHA has lost out on because of the heavy focus on the fluff, not the meat industry.

That was one heck of a post! You obviously have a talent with words and thoughts. In my opinion, you pegged exactly what I was trying to write about the shows and youth. What would it take to get these "range breeders" back as active members? If you had to estimate the quantity of these "range breeders", what would you say?

 

[ND Angus]

I just printed off my application to become a first time member of the Hereford Assocation, reason being is that I've just purchased Registred Hereford cattle at a sale today .This is huge for me since I am a purebred Angus breeder. You guys got me wondering .......... Should I or shouldn't I ????? I'd really like to AI them and start a small ( 50 head) herd. I think the Hereford would work well with my Angus cattle . I'm really doing this for my customers. They will have , in my opinion , A good choice of bulls, Herefords will work on Angus and Angus on Herefords. But now I'm wondering........

 

[HerefordSire]

I just printed off my application to become a first time member of the Hereford Assocation, reason being is that I've just purchased Registred Hereford cattle at a sale today .This is huge for me since I am a purebred Angus breeder. You guys got me wondering .......... Should I or shouldn't I ????? I'd really like to AI them and start a small ( 50 head) herd. I think the Hereford would work well with my Angus cattle . I'm really doing this for my customers. They will have , in my opinion , A good choice of bulls, Herefords will work on Angus and Angus on Herefords. But now I'm wondering........

I would register as a new member with the AHA if I were you. The seller will probably pay the transfer fees into your name.

 

[nap]

No disrespect intended, but Herefordsire are you a member of AHA? I joined last week but I can't seem to find you listed under Arkansas registries. If I am mistaken my humble apologies.

 

[Brandonm22]

How did you know I was watching cnbc?

I knew you had an crush on Maria B. :mrgreen:

Who, the heck is that?? Everyone knows that Rebecca Gomez on the Fox Business Channell is the most attractive woman on TV.

 

[greenwillowhereford II]

I just printed off my application to become a first time member of the Hereford Assocation, reason being is that I've just purchased Registred Hereford cattle at a sale today .This is huge for me since I am a purebred Angus breeder. You guys got me wondering .......... Should I or shouldn't I ????? I'd really like to AI them and start a small ( 50 head) herd. I think the Hereford would work well with my Angus cattle . I'm really doing this for my customers. They will have , in my opinion , A good choice of bulls, Herefords will work on Angus and Angus on Herefords. But now I'm wondering........

Welcome to the family, sounds like a great decision to me! :welcome:

 

[greenwillowhereford II]

Talked to my good friend Mr. Day yesterday, who's been breeding Herefords for over 40 years. He has been as critical of the board as anyone, but he thinks things are definitely looking up for Herefords, based on his own experience. In the last two years, one large commercial ranch has completely replaced their black bull battery with 25 Herefords from Day and his brother. Small and large, he is selling into ranches that were all black, and are switching. One of their top reasons is temperament.

BTW, when it comes to demand from real world commercial cattlemen, how many bulls do Star Lake and all the other big names actually sell to ONE commercial breeder in a year or two, especially considering the number they have available for sale versus an 80 head herd? Maybe they and the AHA board should consider this when determining what type of cattle to promote and raise.

 

[Herefords.US]

I don't think anyone is not speaking up for fear of being "banished" by the AHA. There have been many very vocal critics over the years and I can't recall any one of them being banished yet. Some even started a rival associaton a few years back. I was surprised that I could not even find a remnant reference to it online in a Google search yesterday. I guess it's completely defunct.

I feel activism, rather than revolution, is the best approach. I don't particularly care for the deeply entrenched "good ol' boy" network that exists and has always existed in my memory, but that's the nature of the beast. Believe it or not, it pales in comparison to what exists in my state horned Hereford association. I will no longer support it until a management change occurs.

But I see improvement in both the national association and in demand for Hereford cattle in my latest years of involvement in each. I think it is up to each member/breeder to let the Board and management know what they would like from the association. We all have different needs and ideas.

I also think as new means of communication evolve, like the Internet, and the association learns how to effectively use them, more and more members will be afforded the opportunity to lend their voice and feel more involved.

Elder Statesman, I especially want to thank you for your post in this thread. It gave me a different perspective on some views I've held and something to ruminate on for a while. :tiphat:

George

 

[grannysoo]

I'm not involved in the politics of either, however I do have both type of cows. I started with purebred Black Angus and then added some "commercial" herfords in the herd a few years ago. I like both breeds about the same.

The Black Angus advertising campaign is so well established it's going to be hard to overcome. The best advertising that I have seen was something like "black with a little something more" or something like that. I agree that if fighting and infighting is what's going on, nothing will ever improve.

Best to just keep breeding and raising quality cattle and expand the numbers. Give people an alternative to black.

 

[Elder Statesman]

I keep hearing about the youth are the future of the breed. If I'm not mistaken, the Jr. Hereford events have far more entries than the Angus. If youth programs translates into a successful breed, Herefords should be on top. That isn't the case though, is it? The majority of the youth who are showing Herefords have no interest in raising cattle the rest of their lives. It is a great youth learning activity, just like playing sports. But like most youth baseball players, that is not what their income is going to come from when they are adults. So lets don't make it out to be the saviour of the breed or cattle industry. I don't mind supporting the youth programs, but when their daddy's come pulling in with a truck and trailer a lot fancier than mine, I think they have enough NON-AG income to take care of their kid's hobby.

As for the mess that those in power 30-40 years ago created, some of those on the board today don't even know they are standing in a hole. I have talked to some who have no idea how the cattle industry works. There are some who get on the board because it will look good in their obituary. While there are some on the board who are very knowledgeable and have good intentions, they are saddled with working with board members who don't even know which end of the shovel to hang on to.

I don't think people realize how much of the AHA revenue comes from the registrations and transfers of the cattle raised by the range breeders. There are many who are now selling non-papered bulls because they are ticked off by the lack of support and service from the AHA. That is a lot of $$ that the AHA has lost out on because of the heavy focus on the fluff, not the meat industry.

That was one heck of a post! You obviously have a talent with words and thoughts. In my opinion, you pegged exactly what I was trying to write about the shows and youth. What would it take to get these "range breeders" back as active members? If you had to estimate the quantity of these "range breeders", what would you say?

I personally know of 2 and have heard from reliable sources of several more breeders who in the past have registered and sold 40+ bulls a year who are still members, but not registering or transfering any bulls. But they are still selling bulls. I know of a couple of others who are registering some of their top bull calves, but selling the rest as non-papered bulls. I'm not saying that I agree with this kind of thinking, but it is a reality and I can understand why they are doing it. And it is working for them, their getting their cattle sold and making money. That is the reason they are in this business.

As for some of the studies that have been conducted, it appears that politics again played into who's bulls were used. Or else not much thought was put into the enviroment that the test was taking place and where the bulls came from. It is some of these actions that cause trust issues between the breeders and KC.

Some of you have mentioned CHB and HerfVerified. It is going to be hard to build the supply line when they continue to try and purchased Hereford based calves behind the market. There are a lot more cattle out there that would qualify for CHB than most people think. But when a guy can make a lot more money selling them somewhere else, that is where they will go.

George, I'm glad I gave you something to chew on. I also try and keep an open mind and usually do, sometimes to a fault. But when a person has been involved in the fight for change and improvement for the past 15 years, you start to think its time to try another venue to use in the promotion of the breed.

 

[Herefords.US]

I also agree with HerefordUS about the Texas deal. Somehow the Texas Hereford Association turned into the Jack Chastain and family fiefdom. Pitiful, really.

Yeah, Jack Chastain has been Secretary-Manager of the THA since 1973. My Dad was a member of the THA from the early sixties until the mid-nineties. One year I noticed that he was no longer getting the Texas Hereford magazine. I asked him why and he said that he hadn't received a phone call or a visit from Jack Chastain, regarding any association business or solicitation for advertising, since Jack Chastain had taken over for Henry Elder in 1973. He said 20 years of paying membership dues but receiving absolutely nothing in return was long enough.

When I got back into the Hereford business in 2002, I made several stops into the THA office and visited with Jack. We discussed many things, but in one discussion, he said some things that left no doubt in my mind that he considered the larger breeders and particularly the larger breeders that spent a good deal of money advertising in the Texas Hereford magazine more "worth his time and effort" than the rest of the membership. That brought back memories of what my Dad had said.

Not too long after that, I called Jack on his cell phone and said I wanted to discuss adjusting the advertisement that I was currently doing in the magazine. I was actually considering increasing it at the time. He was at a meeting or manning a booth at a TSCRA function or something. When I told him what I wanted, he said he'd call me back later. I'm still waiting for that return call and it's been 3 or 4 years, now.

I stubbornly decided I wasn't going to pay my bill or any more dues until I got that phone call. I still get a monthly statement from the THA. My wife files them in a folder on my desk at home and I guess it's been well over a year since I've actually even opened one. I figured if I didn't pay my advertising bill or renew my membership that sooner or later I'd finally get that return phone call from Jack - but I've finally decided that it's never coming. I guess the pittance that I was spending each month wasn't that important.

George

 

[greenwillowhereford II]

I personally know of 2 and have heard from reliable sources of several more breeders who in the past have registered and sold 40+ bulls a year who are still members, but not registering or transfering any bulls. But they are still selling bulls. I know of a couple of others who are registering some of their top bull calves, but selling the rest as non-papered bulls. I'm not saying that I agree with this kind of thinking, but it is a reality and I can understand why they are doing it. And it is working for them, their getting their cattle sold and making money. That is the reason they are in this business.

As for some of the studies that have been conducted, it appears that politics again played into who's bulls were used. Or else not much thought was put into the enviroment that the test was taking place and where the bulls came from. It is some of these actions that cause trust issues between the breeders and KC.

Some of you have mentioned CHB and HerfVerified. It is going to be hard to build the supply line when they continue to try and purchased Hereford based calves behind the market. There are a lot more cattle out there that would qualify for CHB than most people think. But when a guy can make a lot more money selling them somewhere else, that is where they will go.

George, I'm glad I gave you something to chew on. I also try and keep an open mind and usually do, sometimes to a fault. But when a person has been involved in the fight for change and improvement for the past 15 years, you start to think its time to try another venue to use in the promotion of the breed.

I know of a breeder who sells quite a few purebred non registered Hereford bulls...probably 20 or 30 a year. He sells to commercial breeders, and registers none of his calves anymore. Fed up with the board...

I think you are probably right about politics playing a role in whose bulls get used in the studies, and it's too bad. If the right bulls had been selected for the Harris Ranch project in California, I believe there would have been little or no quality grade difference in the Hereford sired and Angus sired cattle in the carcass phase. The advantage would then have been over $100 per head for the Hereford sired cattle instead of just $78. Given the power to do so, I'd have stacked the Hereford deck with Feltons, Ellis Farms, Knoll Crest Farms, and the like.

 

[Brandonm22]

I think you are probably right about politics playing a role in whose bulls get used in the studies, and it's too bad. If the right bulls had been selected for the Harris Ranch project in California, I believe there would have been little or no quality grade difference in the Hereford sired and Angus sired cattle in the carcass phase. The advantage would then have been over $100 per head for the Hereford sired cattle instead of just $78. Given the power to do so, I'd have stacked the Hereford deck with Feltons, Ellis Farms, Knoll Crest Farms, and the like.

That is what bothers me about such breed studies. I can cherry pick an awfully good set of cattle if you let me select from the whole breed (that is true of about any breed). I like Herfs; but do you think we necessarily win by $100 a head, IF the Angus were similarly selected??? You have got to do these tests scientifically as possible or your results can be so much gibberish.