Grassfed.........the True Story

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3waycross":1c7wzmiz said:
I forgot to add. I agree with everything else you said :tiphat:

A :tiphat: to you too 3way!

IMO, ethanol should be used as a fuel enhancer, not as a fuel replacement. A guy on another site who helped set up ethanol plants for a living has said this for years. Under this scenario of fuel enhancer vs fuel replacement, I would agree E-85 is really stupid idea.

Here in SD for a long time we have had E0 gasoline with a pathetic 84 or 85 octane rating. Pumps with this gas now must sport a warning label that this sub-standard octane gas might not be suitable for and could possibly damage your engine.

Most engines built currently including my 2012 Hyundai and the Kohler engine on my new zero turn Cub Cadet mower specify a minimum 87 octane.

87 octane is what most E10 gasoline is sold for now here. The oil companies take that crappy 84 and 85 octane gas they make, spike it with ethanol, and voila, 87 octane stuff your car is happy with.

I as a fuel customer would be happy to buy E30 for every gasoline engine I own. Works good year round in all my carb and non flex fuel injected vehicles, and gets the best gas mileage.

IMO, E30 offers the best combination of energy content, fuel efficiency, and $ per gallon cost. E30 is the "sweet spot" I try to attain by mixing E85 with E10, but I can very seldom do this just right at the pump. The closest blender pump dispensing E30 to me is over 200 miles away.

I top off my Hyundai with E85 when I get a chance. Too much E will cause the car less economy, and also will cause the check engine light to come on. So when the light comes on, after I can get 2-3 gallons of E0 in it and then the light goes off. I understand the excess E messes with the O2 sensor. But the car still runs good and has good power.

Kinda overdid it once and figured I had about E50 in the tank once. Car never missed a beat. Put the pedal down out on an open stretch of road and still had good power to cruise 100 mph. Didn't stay there long, just wanted to try'er out! ;-)
 
A quick Google of the Merits of Grass Fed Beef yields this and many more like it.

Grass-Fed Basics

by Jo Robinson

Back to Pasture. Since the late 1990s, a growing number of ranchers have stopped sending their animals to the feedlots to be fattened on grain, soy and other supplements. Instead, they are keeping their animals home on the range where they forage on pasture, their native diet. These new-age ranchers do not treat their livestock with hormones or feed them growth-promoting additives. As a result, the animals grow at a natural pace. For these reasons and more, grass-fed animals live low-stress lives and are so healthy there is no reason to treat them with antibiotics or other drugs.

More Nutritious. A major benefit of raising animals on pasture is that their products are healthier for you. For example, compared with feedlot meat, meat from grass-fed beef, bison, lamb and goats has less total fat, saturated fat, cholesterol, and calories. It also has more vitamin E, beta-carotene, vitamin C, and a number of health-promoting fats, including omega-3 fatty acids and "conjugated linoleic acid," or CLA. Read more about the nutritional benefits of raising animals on pasture.

The Art and Science of Grassfarming. Raising animals on pasture requires more knowledge and skill than sending them to a feedlot. For example, in order for grass-fed beef to be succulent and tender, the cattle need to forage on high-quality grasses and legumes, especially in the months prior to slaughter. Providing this nutritious and natural diet requires healthy soil and careful pasture management so that the plants are maintained at an optimal stage of growth. Because high-quality pasture is the key to high-quality animal products, many pasture-based ranchers refer to themselves as "grassfarmers" rather than "ranchers." They raise great grass; the animals do all the rest.

Factory Farming. Raising animals on pasture is dramatically different from the status quo. Virtually all the meat, eggs, and dairy products that you find in the supermarket come from animals raised in confinement in large facilities called CAFOs or "Confined Animal Feeding Operations." These highly mechanized operations provide a year-round supply of food at a reasonable price. Although the food is cheap and convenient, there is growing recognition that factory farming creates a host of problems, including:
• Animal stress and abuse
• Air, land, and water pollution
• The unnecessary use of hormones, antibiotics, and other drugs
• Low-paid, stressful farm work
• The loss of small family farms
• Food with less nutritional value.

Unnatural Diets. Animals raised in factory farms are given diets designed to boost their productivity and lower costs. The main ingredients are genetically modified grain and soy that are kept at artificially low prices by government subsidies. To further cut costs, the feed may also contain "by-product feedstuff" such as municipal garbage, stale pastry, chicken feathers, and candy. Until 1997, U.S. cattle were also being fed meat that had been trimmed from other cattle, in effect turning herbivores into carnivores. This unnatural practice is believed to be the underlying cause of BSE or "mad cow disease."

Animal Stress. A high-grain diet can cause physical problems for ruminants—cud-chewing animals such as cattle, dairy cows, goats, bison, and sheep. Ruminants are designed to eat fibrous grasses, plants, and shrubs—not starchy, low-fiber grain. When they are switched from pasture to grain, they can become afflicted with a number of disorders, including a common but painful condition called "subacute acidosis." Cattle with subacute acidosis kick at their bellies, go off their feed, and eat dirt. To prevent more serious and sometimes fatal reactions, the animals are given chemical additives along with a constant, low-level dose of antibiotics. Some of these antibiotics are the same ones used in human medicine. When medications are overused in the feedlots, bacteria become resistant to them. When people become infected with these new, disease-resistant bacteria, there are fewer medications available to treat them.

Caged Pigs, Chickens, Ducks and Geese. Most of the nation's chickens, turkeys, and pigs are also being raised in confinement. Typically, they suffer an even worse fate than the grazing animals. Tightly packed into cages, sheds, or pens, they cannot practice their normal behaviors, such as rooting, grazing, and roosting. Laying hens are crowded into cages that are so small that there is not enough room for all of the birds to sit down at one time. An added insult is that they cannot escape the stench of their own manure. Meat and eggs from these animals are lower in a number of key vitamins and omega-3 fatty acids.

Environmental Degradation. When animals are raised in feedlots or cages, they deposit large amounts of manure in a small amount of space. The manure must be collected and transported away from the area, an expensive proposition. To cut costs, it is dumped as close to the feedlot as possible. As a result, the surrounding soil is overloaded with nutrients, which can cause ground and water pollution. When animals are raised outdoors on pasture, their manure is spread over a wide area of land, making it a welcome source of organic fertilizer, not a "waste management problem." Read more about the environmental differences between factory farming and grass-based production.

The Healthiest Choice. When you choose to eat meat, eggs, and dairy products from animals raised on pasture, you are improving the welfare of the animals, helping to put an end to environmental degradation, helping small-scale ranchers and farmers make
 
Jogeephus":1kknt9u6 said:
A quick Google of the Merits of Grass Fed Beef yields this and many more like it.

Grass-Fed Basics

by Jo Robinson

Back to Pasture. Since the late 1990s, a growing number of ranchers have stopped sending their animals to the feedlots to be fattened on grain, soy and other supplements. Instead, they are keeping their animals home on the range where they forage on pasture, their native diet. These new-age ranchers do not treat their livestock with hormones or feed them growth-promoting additives. As a result, the animals grow at a natural pace. For these reasons and more, grass-fed animals live low-stress lives and are so healthy there is no reason to treat them with antibiotics or other drugs.

More Nutritious. A major benefit of raising animals on pasture is that their products are healthier for you. For example, compared with feedlot meat, meat from grass-fed beef, bison, lamb and goats has less total fat, saturated fat, cholesterol, and calories. It also has more vitamin E, beta-carotene, vitamin C, and a number of health-promoting fats, including omega-3 fatty acids and "conjugated linoleic acid," or CLA. Read more about the nutritional benefits of raising animals on pasture.

The Art and Science of Grassfarming. Raising animals on pasture requires more knowledge and skill than sending them to a feedlot. For example, in order for grass-fed beef to be succulent and tender, the cattle need to forage on high-quality grasses and legumes, especially in the months prior to slaughter. Providing this nutritious and natural diet requires healthy soil and careful pasture management so that the plants are maintained at an optimal stage of growth. Because high-quality pasture is the key to high-quality animal products, many pasture-based ranchers refer to themselves as "grassfarmers" rather than "ranchers." They raise great grass; the animals do all the rest.

Factory Farming. Raising animals on pasture is dramatically different from the status quo. Virtually all the meat, eggs, and dairy products that you find in the supermarket come from animals raised in confinement in large facilities called CAFOs or "Confined Animal Feeding Operations." These highly mechanized operations provide a year-round supply of food at a reasonable price. Although the food is cheap and convenient, there is growing recognition that factory farming creates a host of problems, including:
• Animal stress and abuse
• Air, land, and water pollution
• The unnecessary use of hormones, antibiotics, and other drugs
• Low-paid, stressful farm work
• The loss of small family farms
• Food with less nutritional value.

Unnatural Diets. Animals raised in factory farms are given diets designed to boost their productivity and lower costs. The main ingredients are genetically modified grain and soy that are kept at artificially low prices by government subsidies. To further cut costs, the feed may also contain "by-product feedstuff" such as municipal garbage, stale pastry, chicken feathers, and candy. Until 1997, U.S. cattle were also being fed meat that had been trimmed from other cattle, in effect turning herbivores into carnivores. This unnatural practice is believed to be the underlying cause of BSE or "mad cow disease."

Animal Stress. A high-grain diet can cause physical problems for ruminants—cud-chewing animals such as cattle, dairy cows, goats, bison, and sheep. Ruminants are designed to eat fibrous grasses, plants, and shrubs—not starchy, low-fiber grain. When they are switched from pasture to grain, they can become afflicted with a number of disorders, including a common but painful condition called "subacute acidosis." Cattle with subacute acidosis kick at their bellies, go off their feed, and eat dirt. To prevent more serious and sometimes fatal reactions, the animals are given chemical additives along with a constant, low-level dose of antibiotics. Some of these antibiotics are the same ones used in human medicine. When medications are overused in the feedlots, bacteria become resistant to them. When people become infected with these new, disease-resistant bacteria, there are fewer medications available to treat them.

Caged Pigs, Chickens, Ducks and Geese. Most of the nation's chickens, turkeys, and pigs are also being raised in confinement. Typically, they suffer an even worse fate than the grazing animals. Tightly packed into cages, sheds, or pens, they cannot practice their normal behaviors, such as rooting, grazing, and roosting. Laying hens are crowded into cages that are so small that there is not enough room for all of the birds to sit down at one time. An added insult is that they cannot escape the stench of their own manure. Meat and eggs from these animals are lower in a number of key vitamins and omega-3 fatty acids.

Environmental Degradation. When animals are raised in feedlots or cages, they deposit large amounts of manure in a small amount of space. The manure must be collected and transported away from the area, an expensive proposition. To cut costs, it is dumped as close to the feedlot as possible. As a result, the surrounding soil is overloaded with nutrients, which can cause ground and water pollution. When animals are raised outdoors on pasture, their manure is spread over a wide area of land, making it a welcome source of organic fertilizer, not a "waste management problem." Read more about the environmental differences between factory farming and grass-based production.

The Healthiest Choice. When you choose to eat meat, eggs, and dairy products from animals raised on pasture, you are improving the welfare of the animals, helping to put an end to environmental degradation, helping small-scale ranchers and farmers make

Yep, great point Jo. Crazy that an author of a book called "eat wild" would advocate for a product that you can learn much more about if you buy her book for only $19.99, "but wait, there's more!. :lol: I believe wholeheartedly that an intensive model of grass/legume forage based beef production is the ideal, but this lady's arguments are largely a crock. I do think her points that raise the issue of the validity of a model based off of subsidized GMO grains is valid as well as pointing out the unintended consequences of removing your dollars from your local economy by not eating locally. Her arguments about health benefits for either the consumer or the cattle are totally speculative.
 
JohnSD, I'm sure it's not just because of Ethanol, but have you tried storing fuel recently? We have a 250 gallon tank, we used to fill it once a year when we found a decent price... we can't do that anymore, the fuel goes so stale so fast nothing will run on it anymore... I bought 100 gallons in November (went through the cool months), and it's nearly worthless now. I think it's a great way to force people to buy fuel at the current price, no one can stockpile it now. I would certainly buy 0% ethanol gasoline if I could... Hey, why is it that the 94 octane doesn't have ethanol?... I don't need higher octane for my 1970 baler.. I need fuel that burns!
 
I'm all for Farm to Table and I do believe it makes for a healthier national economy if we were to do this AND makes for a small carbon footprint BUT its this same type journalism that has created the problem in the first place and the problem is the FDA and their regulations that make it so terribly difficult to legally do farm to table. Years ago my little town had 3 butchers you could bring your cattle to and they would be butchered on site and if you wanted you meat could also be sold on the counter in the store. This was good for everyone but is now illegal and all these small businesses that employed people at higher than minimum wage are now gone. People like this author who spew this kind of crap out only makes things harder on all of us. Unfortunately there are some of us who will take her words and use them for their selfish benefit when they sell their souls to the beast that is slowly but surely devouring our freedoms.
 
ALACOWMAN":23o04xwv said:
Nesikep":23o04xwv said:
My cattle are grass fed because I'm a tightwad and won't spring for grain for them.. it's not like they need it around here though.
That's different, grass fed cows which is what where about about... Grass fed beef all the way to the plate... Is another...
The last 3 "grass fed" steaks I had tasted like dirt......could be the drought?
 
Kingfisher":21ubr1ik said:
ALACOWMAN":21ubr1ik said:
Nesikep":21ubr1ik said:
My cattle are grass fed because I'm a tightwad and won't spring for grain for them.. it's not like they need it around here though.
That's different, grass fed cows which is what where about about... Grass fed beef all the way to the plate... Is another...
The last 3 "grass fed" steaks I had tasted like dirt......could be the drought?

Please don't take this as being offensive but if you read Ms. Robinson's wealth of information you will clearly see that you undoubtedly don't have a refined palette. This is most likely due to your ignorance of what good beef should taste like. The dirt you speak of is the earthiness and we all know earthiness is a good thing. Its natural, like the fine taste of a rutting buck that's been run by hounds for three weeks.
 
Nesikep":k8cz5yi2 said:
JohnSD, I'm sure it's not just because of Ethanol, but have you tried storing fuel recently? We have a 250 gallon tank, we used to fill it once a year when we found a decent price... we can't do that anymore, the fuel goes so stale so fast nothing will run on it anymore... I bought 100 gallons in November (went through the cool months), and it's nearly worthless now. I think it's a great way to force people to buy fuel at the current price, no one can stockpile it now. I would certainly buy 0% ethanol gasoline if I could... Hey, why is it that the 94 octane doesn't have ethanol?... I don't need higher octane for my 1970 baler.. I need fuel that burns!

I agree with you on the stale fuel 100% Nesi. The difference is I blame it on crappy gasoline, not ethanol.

I don't use much gas anymore so I stopped filling my 350 gal bulk tank. I fill my cars at gas stations when I'm out on the road. My tractors are all diesels now.

The only machines I have on the place that use gas is the 4 wheeler and the lawn mower. I don't like gas cans but that's my system for those uses.

I do have my old C20 and Impala out in the shed that I still drive occasionally. They have gas in them doped up with a heavy dose of Sea Foam. Need to get 'em out and freshen 'em up! ;-)

BTW, I think modern ULSD diesel fuel is crap too and doesn't keep well.

I bought 120 gallons of straight #1 ag fuel on the day after Christmas in my pickup transport tank. Used some out of it this spring.

So the last time I was in town a couple weeks ago with the pickup I topped off the 80 gallons of #1 left in the tank with 40 gallons of of dyed #2 Ruby Fieldmaster. Ruby Fieldmaster is a nickel per gallon higher than regular dyed #2. Supposedly has a superior additive package including soy lubricant.

I had put Silver Bottle Power Service in the #1 fuel when I bought it. Now that I've bought this 40 gallons of #2 and mixed it with the 80 gallons of #1 I want to pump the portable tank into my bulk tank for this winter and fill the portable with straight #2 for hay season.

My plan now is to add enough White Bottle Power Service to treat the 40 gallons of fresh #2 in the tank. I'm hoping that 2 parts of #1 with 1 part of #2 with soy along with Power Service treatment will be OK for winter.

A full dose of Power Service is supposed to make straight #2 perform like a 50/50 mix of #1 and #2. I normally use straight #1 and be done with it. Our winter temps here can approach -40.

Last winter the coldest temp was about -35. I was pleased the Kubota started like a summer day. ;-) I always plug in below 0 but Kubota does start easily down to 0 with no assistance other than glow plugs.
 
Please don't take this as being offensive but if you read Ms. Robinson's wealth of information you will clearly see that you undoubtedly don't have a refined palette. This is most likely due to your ignorance of what good beef should taste like. The dirt you speak of is the earthiness and we all know earthiness is a good thing. Its natural, like the fine taste of a rutting buck that's been run by hounds for three weeks.[/quote]

" but if you read....". Well I haven't read it. I prefer not to muddy the little bit of truth I have stock piled with drivel that y'all speak of! :). My palette is just fine! I've discovered that sushi and gumbo make for a really healthy brunch! The perfect mix of hot/cold. :)
 
Eating locally might be the biggest load of hooey of all. Try it if you don't live in a temperate zone. You won't see a green vegetable for several months a year and little if no citrus.

The local eaters all want to spout that crap but they also want a salad in January. So the rest of the food chain is supposed to make sure they stay in business for the 6 months a year when it's not feasible to buy and eat "local".

Just a little more liberal horsemanure for the rest of us to subsidize. BTW last time I looked virtually everything in nature is GMO. The only question is "BY WHOM OR WHAT?
 
Jogeephus":3e69p49x said:
dun":3e69p49x said:
Where would the world be without SPIN?

A lot of people, some famous and influential, would be picking up beer cans on the side of the road.
And they;ld me mighty glad algore invented the beer can, and probably the side of the road too!
 
3waycross":3r59gcze said:
Eating locally might be the biggest load of hooey of all. Try it if you don't live in a temperate zone. You won't see a green vegetable for several months a year and little if no citrus.

The local eaters all want to spout that crap but they also want a salad in January. So the rest of the food chain is supposed to make sure they stay in business for the 6 months a year when it's not feasible to buy and eat "local".

Just a little more liberal horsemanure for the rest of us to subsidize. BTW last time I looked virtually everything in nature is GMO. The only question is "BY WHOM OR WHAT?

True for a lot of things but there are many other foods that need not be shipped all over the country and could be raised and processed locally but the hurdles the gov't puts in front of us is everything but encouraging and favor the big corporate interests.

Here is a good one my wife ran into just last week. She works at a nursing home and wanted to give the residents some fresh vegetables since most of them are country folks and like this stuff. There was a guy who raised a lot and was willing to sell them fresh from the garden with everything cleaned and ready for the pot. This is illegal but it was legal for him to sell them the produce and let the residents clean them themselves then it was legal. We are talking zipper peas and green beans here! No problem though, many of the residents were more than happy to shell the peas and snap the beans themselves.

Sure this cost Sysco a small sale and the beans didn't have to be shipped from California but is this not a retarded law?
 
Jogeephus":lef2wfgp said:
3waycross":lef2wfgp said:
Eating locally might be the biggest load of hooey of all. Try it if you don't live in a temperate zone. You won't see a green vegetable for several months a year and little if no citrus.

The local eaters all want to spout that crap but they also want a salad in January. So the rest of the food chain is supposed to make sure they stay in business for the 6 months a year when it's not feasible to buy and eat "local".

Just a little more liberal horsemanure for the rest of us to subsidize. BTW last time I looked virtually everything in nature is GMO. The only question is "BY WHOM OR WHAT?

True for a lot of things but there are many other foods that need not be shipped all over the country and could be raised and processed locally but the hurdles the gov't puts in front of us is everything but encouraging and favor the big corporate interests.

Here is a good one my wife ran into just last week. She works at a nursing home and wanted to give the residents some fresh vegetables since most of them are country folks and like this stuff. There was a guy who raised a lot and was willing to sell them fresh from the garden with everything cleaned and ready for the pot. This is illegal but it was legal for him to sell them the produce and let the residents clean them themselves then it was legal. We are talking zipper peas and green beans here! No problem though, many of the residents were more than happy to shell the peas and snap the beans themselves.

Sure this cost Sysco a small sale and the beans didn't have to be shipped from California but is this not a retarded law?
I bet if he was willing to grease enough palms (licenses) he could do it.
 
That's all it boils down to. A fee. A certificate. Its just like with spirits. If its not taxed it will make you blind. Or like pot. Tax it and its safe. I'm not pro-dope but I think if someone wants to smoke pot they should be able to BUT they need to live with whatever consequences their decision brings about just like with alcohol. IMO, it seems the gov't, in its lust for money, is taking away our rights at every opportunity and every time one of these numb nuts writes a book or points fingers at other people in the ag industry the gov't jumps at the chance to add some other fee or regulation that stymies local business opportunities. We've come to a sad state when you are charged with a felony for selling milk but only a misdemeanor when selling drugs.
 
I think 'eating local' is good.. I don't think it's feasible to grow everything up in the northern areas, but perhaps eating more seasonal food when it's in season goes along with it... Do you really need a tomato on your burger in december, when that tomato isn't ripe anyhow regardless of where it came from? People are lazy.. way back when (and most country folk still) do a lot of canning and freezing when there's a flood of something.. Now everyone expects mangos and strawberries in february anywhere in the world. Fast food is another one.. Where does the patty in a McD's burger come from in Texas?.. Mexico? What about Alberta? Texas if possible?. Talk about food safety when there's the DNA of between a couple hundred to a couple THOUSAND cows in ONE patty...

I'm with Jo... If gov't spent half as much energy promoting small business as big business, we'd probably be better off... Instead they put up so much red tape that only big guys can afford to dedicate fleets of people to deal with it
 
Jogeephus":1djgzx28 said:
3waycross":1djgzx28 said:
Eating locally might be the biggest load of hooey of all. Try it if you don't live in a temperate zone. You won't see a green vegetable for several months a year and little if no citrus.

The local eaters all want to spout that crap but they also want a salad in January. So the rest of the food chain is supposed to make sure they stay in business for the 6 months a year when it's not feasible to buy and eat "local".

Just a little more liberal horsemanure for the rest of us to subsidize. BTW last time I looked virtually everything in nature is GMO. The only question is "BY WHOM OR WHAT?

True for a lot of things but there are many other foods that need not be shipped all over the country and could be raised and processed locally but the hurdles the gov't puts in front of us is everything but encouraging and favor the big corporate interests.

Here is a good one my wife ran into just last week. She works at a nursing home and wanted to give the residents some fresh vegetables since most of them are country folks and like this stuff. There was a guy who raised a lot and was willing to sell them fresh from the garden with everything cleaned and ready for the pot. This is illegal but it was legal for him to sell them the produce and let the residents clean them themselves then it was legal. We are talking zipper peas and green beans here! No problem though, many of the residents were more than happy to shell the peas and snap the beans themselves.

Sure this cost Sysco a small sale and the beans didn't have to be shipped from California but is this not a retarded law?

I could care less about what it costs Sysco. However food corporations of all sizes and shapes need to make a profit year round. Not just when it's convenient for a bunch of old burnt out hippies raising a crappy garden for 3 months a year and pretending they are somehow relevant.

BTW it was liberal not Retard.

As you all know I am usually a very serious gardener but I am not dumb enuf to think that if Monsanto and a few other members of the evil empire went down tomorrow that there wouldn't be mass starvation in this country.

Try asking some poor starving 3rd world refugee if they give one flying shyt if their food had GMO components.
 
I agree 100% when it comes to feeding the masses but if I want to buy raw milk why is this a felony? If I want to sell beef to my neighbor, why must I go through so many hoops? Why do I have to have a license to sell a fricking egg!? Why do you have to pay $150 for a license to sell vegetable plants? Another $100 to sell vegetable seed? Why do the regulators feel its their job to interfere with local food production and sales? IMO its a sad state of affairs and then you got these idiots out there saying commercial cattle production is unhealthy ..... is bad .... and all they are doing is giving the government more rope to hang us with.
 

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