? For the experts.

[Stocker Steve]

I'm not Grandin's biggest fan, in fact I think her expertise is limited to simulation models in the office, so I would not be suprised if this bit of research simply isn't just yet another thesis for yet another useless PhD.

Check out the movie on her life. Some parts are pretty special.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Temple Grandin has proven heavy boned cattle tend to have a more docile disposition which leads to quicker weight gain and better health. Lighter or fine boned animals tend to be more flighty or nervous which isn't good for weight gain or health.

Interesting... wonder whether it isn't more breed (breed make up) orientated. I can think of a few lighter boned breeds that are certainly more flighty.

And some finer-boned breeds are among the calmest on the planet.

 

[angus9259]

This is real world testing and facts way more beneficial than sone controlled scientific research.

But wouldn't it be just crazy fun if there actually WERE some scientific research to back up (or God forbid contradict) the real world testing and facts?? :banana:

 

[Muddy]

Temple Grandin has proven heavy boned cattle tend to have a more docile disposition which leads to quicker weight gain and better health. Lighter or fine boned animals tend to be more flighty or nervous which isn't good for weight gain or health.

Interesting... wonder whether it isn't more breed (breed make up) orientated. I can think of a few lighter boned breeds that are certainly more flighty.

And some finer-boned breeds are among the calmest on the planet.

You meant double muscled ones?

 

[WalnutCrest]

Interesting... wonder whether it isn't more breed (breed make up) orientated. I can think of a few lighter boned breeds that are certainly more flighty.

And some finer-boned breeds are among the calmest on the planet.

You meant double muscled ones?

While that might be the case, I was thinking of the Mashona cattle I've been around -- they are the calmest cattle I've ever had the pleasure of being around. They are definitely finer boned cattle.

 

[City Guy]

Elkwc, We agree.

 

[City Guy]

I have not read Grandin's work on the thin bone theory. Did she compare different breeds or just certain cattle within a breed?
Many fine boned breeds are old breeds from mountainous and cold regions of Europe or hot and dry areas of Africa. In most cases they were used as dual or triple purpose animals, which casts doubt on the breed characteristics thought because milking and plowing require a docile attitude. Most of these breeds are 1000's of years old. Plenty of time to change bone size if anyone thought it necessary.

 

[City Guy]

RM90, I didn't answer your question. Yes, many of the "lesser breeds" need to be marketed differently. Some breeders are direct marketing albeit on a very small scale. It is, IMO, the job of breed associations to help their members market their cattle and educate the consumer. AAA has done a good job of brainwashing, Ah, er, I mean educating the public. Red Angus Assoc. does a good job of getting their producer's cattle to the next level and the Herefords have their CHB program. I'm not immediately aware of any others but I'm sure there must be some.

 

[City Guy]

Muddy, Are you bragging, complaining or just making an observation? All cattle were nonexistent in North America at one time. Before the '60's Charolais, Simmental, Limousines, Gelbviehs, and many other now popular breeds were "niche breeds" at best.Even Angus were a "new fangled European cow" at one time. Things change.

 

[City Guy]

To all interested parties: I don't give a rat's azz if it's fine boned or mammoth boned cattle that make the most money. I just want to know which and why. Even Elkwc says he has fed out some fine boned one and implied that he made money. He cited a friend who did the same and came out ok. So they are not guaranteed money losers. My guess is money can be made with either if one knows what to do. I don't, that's why I asked you all. I guess the answer is a "good ole boy" secret.

 

[M-5]

To all interested parties: I don't give a rat's azz if it's fine boned or mammoth boned cattle that make the most money. I just want to know which and why. Even Elkwc says he has fed out some fine boned one and implied that he made money. He cited a friend who did the same and came out ok. So they are not guaranteed money losers. My guess is money can be made with either if one knows what to do. I don't, that's why I asked you all. I guess the answer is a "good ole boy" secret.

when you buy some cows then we will tell you ..

 

[Rafter S]

To all interested parties: I don't give a rat's azz if it's fine boned or mammoth boned cattle that make the most money. I just want to know which and why. Even Elkwc says he has fed out some fine boned one and implied that he made money. He cited a friend who did the same and came out ok. So they are not guaranteed money losers. My guess is money can be made with either if one knows what to do. I don't, that's why I asked you all. I guess the answer is a "good ole boy" secret.

when you buy some cows then we will tell you ..

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[Muddy]

And some finer-boned breeds are among the calmest on the planet.

You meant double muscled ones?

While that might be the case, I was thinking of the Mashona cattle I've been around -- they are the calmest cattle I've ever had the pleasure of being around. They are definitely finer boned cattle.

And smaller than average Angus.

 

[City Guy]

M-5 No you won't.

 

[M-5]

M-5 No you won't.

when you own a few cows you will see for the most part your question is not relevant as each individual performs differently so its not as black and white as you think it is.

 

[City Guy]

M-5 How black and white do I think it is? You seem to know so much about me, but I wonder if you know much about cows because your answer to most cow questions is "each one is different". Well so are snow flakes and leaves but those facts don't help anyone to be a better skier or lumberjack.

 

[M-5]

I know more than some and less than others. Being I was In a cow lot before I could walk I might have picked up a few things over the years. You keep trying to put everything in a nice neat box but if you had any experience you wouldn't be asking dumb azz questions. As far as skiing goes you can read and learn everything there is to know but as soon as you start down the hill the first time your gonna bust yore azz. Why?? Because reading and doing is as different as black and white.

 

[City Guy]

I learned to ski buy doing, not reading,
And, BTW, what was the dumb azz question I asked that started all this? Oh yeah, I remember; "Have there ever been any studies that prove larger boned cattle are more profitable than finer boned one?" It was a simple yes or no question, but I would have thought I was watching "Dancing with the Stars" the way most people evaded the question. I don't know the answer and I'm convinced most people on this forum don't either. I'll try to find that Dr. Long study, but WalnutCrest couldn't find it and I probably won't either. Again, it make no difference to me which one makes the most profit.

 

[Muddy]

I learned to ski buy doing, not reading,
And, BTW, what was the dumb azz question I asked that started all this? Oh yeah, I remember; "Have there ever been any studies that prove larger boned cattle are more profitable than finer boned one?" It was a simple yes or no question, but I would have thought I was watching "Dancing with the Stars" the way most people evaded the question. I don't know the answer and I'm convinced most people on this forum don't either. I'll try to find that Dr. Long study, but WalnutCrest couldn't find it and I probably won't either. Again, it make no difference to me which one makes the most profit.

It does makes a difference to maximize the profits while using less inputs for some cattlemen, especially producers and feedlot guys. From what I seen your posts, you're the one who evaded the answers we gave to you. At the current feeder prices a dock or not get a premium, will hurt your paycheck for have poor quality feeders, especially with fine bones. The fine boned breeds you mentioned are not popular with most feedlots.

 

[elkwc]

This is real world testing and facts way more beneficial than sone controlled scientific research.

But wouldn't it be just crazy fun if there actually WERE some scientific research to back up (or God forbid contradict) the real world testing and facts?? :banana:

Knersie "I'm not Grandin's biggest fan, in fact I think her expertise is limited to simulation models in the office, so I would not be suprised if this bit of research simply isn't just yet another thesis for yet another useless PhD."

Knersie states it very well. First I question why spend the money on research when there are lots of actual, factual data already that proves the point. Accurate science is beneficial. Too much today is political science to further an agenda or make a dollar. Look at all of the low accuracy useless EPD's. I could relate many stories that have cost people money because of faith put in them. So I will let you have your crazy fun and I will continue to try to make an honest dollar or two the old fashioned way. By honesty and hard work and using my head and using factual data to make informed, wise decisions.