Discounts vs premiums
- Thread starter Ky hills
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Well, that ain't gonna happen. Hoss. No USDA inspector in their right mind is gonna risk losing their job and getting charged with fraud. No processing plant is gong to risk having their line shut down for an audit of all carcasses in it, and risk losing its USDA permit to operate. Do you have even an inkling of an idea what the CAB and the other 84 angus programs are about? I don't know of even one person with a Charolais or Shorthorn or whatever fetish, would even WANT their cattle to be "stamped certified Angus". The sh*t you say makes even RMC look like a bovine genius! Who the hell would even FUND such an idiotic idea? AAA?!! You think AICA would?!!! Hell man, sell your inferior color cows and buy some more black ones, for crying out loud. Or at least a black bull. A lot of us on here are talking about pitching in and buying you a reg Angus bull just to get you to shut the h*ll up. I mean ...hell..enough is a damned nuff!
They do have 3 categories for registering part blood red angus, but no, category 1A, 100% registered Red Angus, does not. https://redangus.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Rules-and-Regulations-12_16_22current.pdfHere is some history on the angus breed
It is also my understanding that the red angus association is one of those that acknowledges out side genetics.
Red Angus
The Red Angus breed has the exact same origins of the Aberdeen Angus. Originally it was brought in by the Vikings from Europe and introduced to England and Scotland, these cattle were small, dun-colouwww.thebeefsite.com
They allow percentage animal's registered,as well as allowing registration of cattle as long as their parents are registered from many other associations, including AAA, certain Aberdeen Angus associations, and at least one Brangus association.
Thank you for another voice of reason, though I fear you waste your breath on this one. It is nice to have someone that can read basic English and understand it.
Actuaoy in truth, I seriously doubt that he actually IS this mentally challenged. I think he does this for attention. To " be cute" like the grade scholl teachers used to say about a kid acting up.You might want to check yourself HOSS SSSS before you say that will never happen.
I know you never let facts get in the way of your opinion big boy.
But the USDA official position on red angus is they are angus and can be sold as such. And are eligible for any angus program that allow them to . So I may very well happen in the future
You probably shouldn't focus so much on playing gotcha and focus on what you are actually posting.
A screenshot of the link YOU posted earlier
Please read rule 1 on registrations
Here is a link of angus associations
That if parents are registered with can be registered as red angus . If you view them you will find multiple Aberdeen Angus associations and at least one brangus association .
Might want to actually review what you post big boy.
Members
Directory of Members for World Angus Secretariat and their contact details
worldangussecretariat.com
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The "official USDA opinion", Scooter, is whatever each of the 85 certified angus programs say it is, on red Angus, is adhered to. Or Purple Watusi or any other cattle. The developers of a program..certified Angus, certified double yolk eggs, certified Wooly Hogs, whatever. draws up the parameters of the requirements for that program, and submits these to USDA, who then writes the guidelines for the packers and the USDA inspectors to follow. This idiot said " Until red and white cattle are stamped with the CAB certification, based on their carcass quality and not the color of their hair," THAT won't happen. You want ever get USDA inspectors to stamp farm raised catfish as wild-caught salmon, either. Even IF some of the inspectorsmay prefer castish//like me//to salmon. The USAD has no say so what so ever what a breed marketing program can or can not support. The USDA takes no position on whether any of the certified angus programs can or can not exclude red angus. That PROGRAM decides that. Some do allow red Angus and some don't. What the USDA DOES do, is monitor the inspectors at processing plants, to make sure carcasses that are stamped eligible any of the Angus programs,. meet the rules and requirements that particular PROGRAM set.
YOU need to learn basic computer skills/ What I posted was a link to the RAAA rules form their website. it is a link to a 45 page pdf. You download it ( might be too big a word for you) , then OPEN the document, then SCROLL down to the section regarding registration. Registration rules are on page 12 to about 16. But then again, you told us you were too busy to watch 5 mins of a documentary that SHOULD have done a lot to educate you on genetics, so I doubt you could handle reading a 45 page document. Too bad you were too busy writing pirate fairy tales to watch it, because if you had, you wouldn't have made that totally ignorant post above where you said DNA could NOT be used to determine breed... that ALL cattle DNA was exactly a like!!! . Maybe you ought to have shared that little known tidbit with AQHA while they were going through the WHITE RULE battle several years ago.
Put the bottle down big boy.
Here are some of those inconvenient facts again.
Red Angus are Angus: USDA allows breed to be sold under general ‘Angus’ label
Red Angus producers will soon have more access to market based premiums along with potentially seeing an increased demand for the breed, according to Tom Brink, CEO of the Red
YOU need to learn basic computer skills/ What I posted was a link to the RAAA rules form their website. it is a link to a 45 page pdf. You download it ( might be too big a word for you) , then OPEN the document, then SCROLL down to the section regarding registration. Registration rules are on page 12 to about 16. But then again, you told us you were too busy to watch 5 mins of a documentary that SHOULD have done a lot to educate you on genetics, so I doubt you could handle reading a 45 page document. Too bad you were too busy writing pirate fairy tales to watch it, because if you had, you wouldn't have made that totally ignorant post above where you said DNA could NOT be used to determine breed... that ALL cattle DNA was exactly a like!!! . Maybe you ought to have shared that little known tidbit with AQHA while they were going through the WHITE RULE battle several years ago.
I will read it for you, Skippy" USDA has officially acknowledged that fact by enabling Red Angus and Red Angus-influenced cattle that meet certain requirements to join black-hided animals in as many Angus brands that decide in favor of their inclusion." " Under the new USDA decision, Red Angus will now be eligible to be simply labeled "Angus," in every certified beef program that agrees to it." It is up to CAB or any other angus program whether or not they include Red Angus. The USDA has NOTHING to with what any program can or can not do. This statement says that IF a program like CAB wishes to amend its qualifications to allow Red Angus in,then the USDA will approve it. THE CAB prgram, for instance can not just issue a statement saying that the 50% black rule is abolished and replaced. They would have to go through the channells.. draw up the parameters, submit them, to USA, then the USDA would or could issue new directives to amend the criteria. The rules for CAB would have to say all animals to be considered would have to be either 50% black or 50% red, which would totally destroy that program. Every damned cattle in the world would qualify except the por ole Charolais. There will never be any cattle that is NOT at least 50% black ever be given a CAB certification. Maybe other angus based programs, or new angus based programs, but never CAB. It is IMPOSSIBLE for them to be.Put the bottle down big boy.
Here are some of those inconvenient facts again.
Red Angus are Angus: USDA allows breed to be sold under general ‘Angus’ label
Red Angus producers will soon have more access to market based premiums along with potentially seeing an increased demand for the breed, according to Tom Brink, CEO of the Redwww.agupdate.com
All of these accusations only occurred in your mind. Nowhere ever have I posted I couldn't a 5 minute documentary on genetics ,or that all cattle dna was exactly alike . It only happened in you mind so I would put the bottle down.
The screen shot I posted is a section of the RAAA rules you posted.
Paraphrasing the section says that if the parents of your red angus calf was registered in any of a number of approved angus registrations world wide your calf can be registered as a full blood red angus. In other words if a red calf is born from two registered AAA parents it can be registered as a pure breed red angus . The same goes for any other red angus born from two parents of any of the other approved associations, including some Aberdeen Angus associations and at least one brangus association
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
All RA cattle came from Black Angus. Back in the 70s, if a reg BA breeder had a red calf born, they didn't understand how their reg black cattle had a red calf, so they would take it behind the barn and kill it. They were afraid people would think there was something wrong with their herd. Finally, they realized it was just a red gene. Someone got smart and instead of destroying the reds, they started a PB Red assn.
BA still produce red calves, the RA assn will register them.
Obviously, the USDA has acknowledged that RA and BA are all Angus. Whoop-de-do. Everyone knowledgeable about beef breeds know that. All that report says is that IF a program wants to accept RED, the USDA is OK with that.
RA in this day and age are a better beef animal right now than the BA. But, if the article is right that the RA is trying to improve carcass quality, they will lose the nice muscled cattle they have right now....chasing marbling, which is antagonistic to the muscling gene.
BA still produce red calves, the RA assn will register them.
Obviously, the USDA has acknowledged that RA and BA are all Angus. Whoop-de-do. Everyone knowledgeable about beef breeds know that. All that report says is that IF a program wants to accept RED, the USDA is OK with that.
RA in this day and age are a better beef animal right now than the BA. But, if the article is right that the RA is trying to improve carcass quality, they will lose the nice muscled cattle they have right now....chasing marbling, which is antagonistic to the muscling gene.
Sp exactly what did the red angus association do from the time it was founded in 1954 until the 1970s
Kind of weird to think they didn't know the red was recessive gene when they actually formed an association to promote them some 20 plus years earlier. Then what about the fact of the study and resulting pamphlet in the 1920s that said the red calves being born to black angus parents were just as pure angus as their black herd mates.
And then consider the fact that both red and black angus were registered in the original herd book in Scotland. It was only when the association started in the us that red angus weren't allowed to be registered.
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50/50Farms
Well-known member
I don't see it as a discount. It is just somebody paying higher for something they can sell for more. Y'all are looking at this from the wrong perspective. Unless they have ag experience, the average consumer in this country knows two breeds of cattle: Angus and Wagyu.
They will pay a higher price for it because they have been told it's better. Because they will pay more, the people that get it to them will pay more. For raising it or something that will pass for it, you will get more.
If you removed the CAB premium, you'd still have people paying more on one end and less on the other. Look, I think it's BS when it comes to the dinner plate myself, I've never noticed non Angus or crossbreed beef to be any less good. That doesn't matter, though, what matters is that people pay. Unless you're going to run a public education campaign on beef cattle breeds and where all the different grades come from, it's pointless. Raise the cattle you want to raise, that's what will make you happiest anyways. Find a way to make it work for you and knock it out of the park. The average John Q Farmer is still going to be sticking black bulls on anything he can to sell black calves.
Way she goes, y'know?
Edit: Just remembered. I was working on some fence today and my buddy called on the phone so I answered and dropped in my pocket and talked while I worked. He's from a farming family but mostly in terms of crops and smaller critters. He is, however, a damn good cook and has done so as a profession before. He mentioned wagyu steaks and I said they weren't something I like too awful much over others and he said "I understand that half of the price is the niche and the other half is the advertising"
There ya go.
They will pay a higher price for it because they have been told it's better. Because they will pay more, the people that get it to them will pay more. For raising it or something that will pass for it, you will get more.
If you removed the CAB premium, you'd still have people paying more on one end and less on the other. Look, I think it's BS when it comes to the dinner plate myself, I've never noticed non Angus or crossbreed beef to be any less good. That doesn't matter, though, what matters is that people pay. Unless you're going to run a public education campaign on beef cattle breeds and where all the different grades come from, it's pointless. Raise the cattle you want to raise, that's what will make you happiest anyways. Find a way to make it work for you and knock it out of the park. The average John Q Farmer is still going to be sticking black bulls on anything he can to sell black calves.
Way she goes, y'know?
Edit: Just remembered. I was working on some fence today and my buddy called on the phone so I answered and dropped in my pocket and talked while I worked. He's from a farming family but mostly in terms of crops and smaller critters. He is, however, a damn good cook and has done so as a profession before. He mentioned wagyu steaks and I said they weren't something I like too awful much over others and he said "I understand that half of the price is the niche and the other half is the advertising"
There ya go.
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Wow, you need to put the pipe down` there, Scooter, if your short tern memory has been destroyed that much Page 19 of the Pharo Cattle Co thread "Well, sorry, I won't have time to watch that ENTIRE video. I'll be too busy setting up my Corriente Registry. And, BTW, corrientes are definitely distinct from Crillos. The distinction goes back to two distinct groups brought on the same boat in 1493.
and page 3 of this thread, you said:
This will never ever happen.
There is zero definite genetic difference to identify angus from many other breeds.
Damn, Scooter. we weren't even TALKING about the RRA rules. We were talking about the article YOU posted saying that the USDA has said CAB and otyhers have cerify Red Angus in their respective programs.
Dave
Well-known member
There is a big name Angus breeder near here. There is also a big name Hereford breeder. They actually live within a couple miles of each other. Their spring bull sale happen in the same week. The last couple years I see from their sales reports that the Hereford bulls are averaging about
$1,000 a head more. People are remembering what those Angus bulls did when used on the purebred Hereford cow herds. Hybrid vigor works both ways.
Back in the 70's I cowboyed for a rancher who ran Black Angus cows. In those days everyone had Hereford cattle. I remember him saying that the buyers docked black cattle anyway that they could. Old Charlie was just ahead of his time.
$1,000 a head more. People are remembering what those Angus bulls did when used on the purebred Hereford cow herds. Hybrid vigor works both ways.
Back in the 70's I cowboyed for a rancher who ran Black Angus cows. In those days everyone had Hereford cattle. I remember him saying that the buyers docked black cattle anyway that they could. Old Charlie was just ahead of his time.
One of our bull suppliers started their Red Angus herd in the mid 60s
Warren Allison
I wil splan it to you berry slowly so maybe You can understand. Each post has the persons name that posted . When you quote it the very first line of the quote says the one people who writ it by putting their name at the very top .
So you need to look at the very top line in the quote at the top of this here post. It reeds "rocfarm:"
So that means "rocfarm" posted it .
My username is "RMC"
That means that I was not the one who posted . Sum one did post it but it weren't me .
So do you understand now big boy?
I didn't post it genius
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