Discounts vs premiums

[Travlr]

Please read up on requirements to qualify as CAB. Quality of the beef is what the program is about. If it was about color they would require a 100% black hide.

CAB has many things "the program is about". Mostly to promote black angus and sell bulls for more money. The fact remains that black hides sell higher regardless of quality.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

It is supply and demand. What doesn't add up?

Unless you're selling grade and yield, there's no such thing as a premium.
There's only market top and then excuses/reasons to discount from the top price.

Pass the Kool-Aid please.........

 

[M.Magis]

No... they aren't. The market is being manipulated to sell black angus bulls and it's detrimental to cattle in general, and to producers specifically.

Wrong. Buyers pay more for black cattle because they can make more money with them. It can be for a variety of reasons, but thats the bottom line. They sure as hell haven't been paying extra for the last 30 years just because they like black cattle.

 

[Travlr]

Wrong. Buyers pay more for black cattle because they can make more money with them. It can be for a variety of reasons, but thats the bottom line. They sure as hell haven't been paying extra for the last 30 years just because they like black cattle.

Okay... I'll bite. Tell me why buyers can make more money with black cattle. Let's go through your list.

 

[Ky hills]

If the Wagyu bandwagon takes off with enough momentum and people have to reap the rewards of dealing with the issues those cows are said to have, maybe then the Angus shills will start to see what a few of us have been saying all along. Although granted, I don't see it in the same sense as the Angus and black hided craze because the numbers aren't there as they were with Angus, nor would those cattle likely fit into the current finishing protocols.
Some friends recently ordered some Wagyu steaks for their family as gifts.

 

[Travlr]

If the Wagyu bandwagon takes off with enough momentum and people have to reap the rewards of dealing with the issues those cows are said to have, maybe then the Angus shills will start to see what a few of us have been saying all along. Although granted, I don't see it in the same sense as the Angus and black hided craze because the numbers aren't there as they were with Angus, nor would those cattle likely fit into the current finishing protocols.
Some friends recently ordered some Wagyu steaks for their family as gifts.

I've been watching wagyu closely and I suspect there is a lot of ignorance involved. many of those I've spoken to don't seem to even know what wagyu means or that the word covers many different breeds, and they certainly aren't producing meat marbled like that in pictures of high priced wagyu beef. But hey... you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

 

[Ky hills]

I've said before that Angus have kind of lost their identity several breeds are now predominantly black and the original marketing of CAB was to sell Angus bulls because of the desirable carcass. All we heard was so and so breeds won't marble. Now there is no doubt that Other breeds are cutting into Angus bull market share. Simmentals are hot here, and Gelbvieh and Limousins are not uncommon. Those black calves are often in more demand at the market than straight Angus calves. Makes me wonder what the percent of black hided non Angus or half Angus calves make the CAB cut after processing.

 

[mwj]

Of all the over 50% black hided cattle that go on the hook this week,what % will make CAB specs? Do you think that all of those cattle sold for more than the other colors?

 

[mwj]

I've said before that Angus have kind of lost their identity several breeds are now predominantly black and the original marketing of CAB was to sell Angus bulls because of the desirable carcass. All we heard was so and so breeds won't marble. Now there is no doubt that Other breeds are cutting into Angus bull market share. Simmentals are hot here, and Gelbvieh and Limousins are not uncommon. Those black calves are often in more demand at the market than straight Angus calves. Makes me wonder what the percent of black hided non Angus or half Angus calves make the CAB cut after processing.

CAB has never had a ''breed'' requirement.

 

[Rmc]

Wrong. Buyers pay more for black cattle because they can make more money with them. It can be for a variety of reasons, but thats the bottom line.

Not they it has worked out for me.
I sell black calves and buy otb calves.
Make far more money on the otb calves .
If you don't think the same packers who have paid millions and millions in fines for colluding in pork and chicken prices aren't do the same in beef I have some ocean front property in Arizona I will sell you cheap

 

[Ky hills]

CAB has never had a ''breed'' requirement.

No but at the time it was conceived Angus were understood to be the black hided breed. Sure there were some black animals resulting from the beginning crosses of breeding up programs of the continentals, but at that time they were going for Simmental or whatever traits and away from Angus. Besides the CAB acronym is Angus so yes it's kinda meant to be understood as Angus.

 

[mwj]

No but at the time it was conceived Angus were understood to be the black hided breed. Sure there were some black animals resulting from the beginning crosses of breeding up programs of the continentals, but at that time they were going for Simmental or whatever traits and away from Angus. Besides the CAB acronym is Angus so yes it's kinda meant to be understood as Angus.

So I will ask again. Why do they not require an all black hide?

 

[Ky hills]

So I will ask again. Why do they not require an all black hide?

Certified Angus Beef® brand | 10 Specifications

Our 10 Specifications for Quality

www.certifiedangusbeef.com

To earn the Certified Angus Beef ® brand name, cattle must first be Angus-influenced, with a predominantly solid black coat. Then, beef must pass our 10 quality standards:

 

[daneg]

No one breed or colour is a fit on everyone's place or environment, I would sooner have an environmental adapted herd that raises a uniform calf crop, rebreeds in a short time frame, with minimal health problems and enjoy the economic benefits of all this in dollars saved or not spent. As opposed to chasing phantom premiums in the sale barns.

 

[faster horses]

No one breed or colour is a fit on everyone's place or environment, I would sooner have an environmental adapted herd that raises a uniform calf crop, rebreeds in a short time frame, with minimal health problems and enjoy the economic benefits of all this in dollars saved or not spent. As opposed to chasing phantom premiums in the sale barns.

You are free to do so.

 

[mwj]

Are growers docked for cattle not being ''organic''? Are they docked if they are implanted? Both can bring an increased price to certain buyers.

 

[TCRanch]

Well, I think most of you know I have a pretty sweet deal with Creekstone Farms Premium Beef so I'm all about CAB. BUT my calves are also backgrounded: weaned generally 60 days, fully vaccinated, heifers guaranteed open, bunk broke, docile and a fairly uniform group (my goal is always 45 days but this year some later calves filled the 60 day calving window).

Yes, black (primarily Angus) sell better here. But a group of backgrounded Hereford or Red Angus will sell better than "black" off the trailer any day. Char, anything grey or white & dairy breeds will take a hit, regardless of backgrounding.

Edit: all calves born this year within 60 days was wrong, I had 3 calves after that.

 

[Ky hills]

Are growers docked for cattle not being ''organic''? Are they docked if they are implanted? Both can bring an increased price to certain buyers.

Don't know if it really affects price or not, but they are starting to announce if the cattle have not been implanted.

 

[Mountaintown Creek Ranch]

#Notblack

 

[Ebenezer]

Having a hard time understanding this. Is the conclusion that the industry would be better off if fewer people had access to top bulls and majority were therefore forced to use lesser quality bulls?

Not much genetic diversity in pork and chicken. Would those industries be more profitable if they were still producing dominickers and Poland China's?

From some of the inside industry discussions: there is concern in the pork industry about the inbred lines and the broiler industry, at least in part, is dealing with male fertility. Not all that glitters is gold. Keeping separate lines going including old breeds is not all bad. On the Dominiques: we had 2 separate lines for years. The flavor was superior to store chicken and each line had its own flavor. It's too bad they cannot add some Dominique genes into commercial broilers to give them some taste.

Breed selections have been rollercoaster events. The belt buckle cattle and the lard hogs coincided as there was a demand for fat: lard and tallow. Now the quest seems to be lean hogs with no taste and cattle that do it all in one package. A lot is lost, in my opinion, every time the type bottlenecks the selections.