Black hided vs others

[kenny thomas]

I can remember walking down the walkway above the cattle and rarely seeing a black calf.
Good or bad the Angus Association has done a great job of promoting them .

 

[50/50Farms]

I'm showing my age, but we were breeding for black or BWF and polled or scurred when I was a kid. I remember when the docks were both soft and hard, though. When we've thrown reds, we've just always hoped they packed enough azz on to make up for it. It is what it is. Most of your money in cattle is in cost vs gain. There are premiums and there are docks, but if you want the best happiness just raise the damn cows you want and figure out the pencil. Don't overstock, think outside the box on supplement, and let nature have her say. Black hides bring the premium in every state I've lived in, but there are producers near me raising chars of such quality that 6 of their heifers would equal what I have in my truck. I don't hate on anybody's cows if they ain't mistreated. That's always been my biggest thing, if you can make it work or have the money for it not to matter, it's none of my damn business. There's no such thing as front pasture cows, if you own or lease the pasture then whatever you rotate to the front is front pasture cows, and anybody who doesn't like looking at them should keep their eyes on the road.

 

[Son of Butch]

There's no such thing as front pasture cows.

Sure there are.
Years ago riding with my brother we passed a well heeled Doctor's hobby place. Brick McMansion, beautifully landscaped, manicured lawns and off to one side a pasture with 6 or 8 sheep. A picture perfect setting and my 12 yr old nephew lost it
"Man there must be money in sheep! Dad, why don't we get rid of the cows and get some sheep!" lol

 

[Warren Allison]

I worked for a rancher back in the 70's. He ran Angus and at that time everyone was running Herefords. I remember him saying that the buyers all look for a way to dock black calves. Times do change.

Yep. 70's was before CAB.

 

[Stonewall Joe]

Selling for more does not guarantee more profit.

it sure keeps you from having less

 

[tex452]

Yep. 70's was before CAB.

The old timers use to say that angus grew too slow.

 

[Silver]

it sure keeps you from having less

Does it?

 

[andybob]

I think there's some backlash within the larger community of producers. We see how the "premium" is really just an unjustified discount, and that there are downsides to black hides. In hot climates black hides can have inefficiencies/cost as much as they profit. We are beginning to realize how a single dominant breed can limit genetic diversity, especially when breeding to get black hides in other breeds also brings the flaws inherent in the dominant black breed. Bad udders, dink calves, and bad feet have to come from somewhere.
And order buyers and processors aren't stupid. They know red/white/whatever cattle are just as good as anything black. And they aren't in the business to lose money. They are also conscious of the present scam breeding where people are using black hides to sell inferior animals. Corriente crosses that won't grow to the mature size the feedlots require hide well when crossing the scales in a sale barn.
Even the public could be starting to understand the hype behind CAB, and waking up to how they are being taken at the checkout counter,

There has been an increase in using some Mashona % in commercial hers to counter the heat stress and maintain carcase quality. A couple of ranchers are breeding Mashona/Hereford heat tolerant baldies which can be used as damlines for an Angus terminal bull, maximising heterosis. Several commercial Red Angus herds incorporated 25% red Tuli into their herds to increase heat tolerance when they were first introduced.

 

[Ebenezer]

There has been an increase in using some Mashona % in commercial hers to counter the heat stress and maintain carcase quality. A couple of ranchers are breeding Mashona/Hereford heat tolerant baldies which can be used as damlines for an Angus terminal bull, maximising heterosis. Several commercial Red Angus herds incorporated 25% red Tuli into their herds to increase heat tolerance when they were first introduced.

Good way to go broke in our region of the SE USA. Mashona temperament is a problem on the farm if all are like the ones I have seen. Black hides have likely been discussed as if there is a better option than making a profit. I'll let others do the experimenting.

 

[andybob]

Good way to go broke in our region of the SE USA. Mashona temperament is a problem on the farm if all are like the ones I have seen. Black hides have likely been discussed as if there is a better option than making a profit. I'll let others do the experimenting.

I have never seen a Mashona or Tuli with a poor temperament, they have been herded by young boys for centuries being kraaled overnight, and milked in the mornings before being herded out to graze. This has resulted in their developing a docile genotype with close affinity to their herders. during the 70's when I was constantly deployed, my herd was minimally handled yet were immediately responsive when we brought them in for branding etc when on R+R. The Sanga breed herds in Australia are all reported as being very docile and naturally herding. I will contact Jaime and Johann for an opinion on the Mashona herds in the USA, I only had Tuli while I lived in NC, as Weaver kept a tight control on the Mashona genetics.

 

[50/50Farms]

Are you a Rhodie?

 

[andybob]

Good way to go broke in our region of the SE USA. Mashona temperament is a problem on the farm if all are like the ones I have seen. Black hides have likely been discussed as if there is a better option than making a profit. I'll let others do the experimenting.

Here is the link to the original Weaver website, docility is definitely mentioned on the breed information page -http://www.americanmashona.com/breed.php

 

[Ky hills]

I've never seen or heard of Mashona cattle around here. I have heard of only a few Mashona cattle in the US, Possibly Pharo has some.
Used to hear about Senepol being an alternative for heat tolerance but they didn't seem to catch on.
Hard to beat Brahman influence for the southeastern US for those where heat tolerance is required. The Brahman influence makes for functional cattle that have good growth.

 

[Davemk]

Does it?

Nope

 

[andybob]

Are you a Rhodie?

Yes, Bulawayo hometown, farmed Ft Rixon

 

[50/50Farms]

Yes, Bulawayo hometown, farmed Ft Rixon

Neat.

 

[elkwc]

Around here Angus/Hereford baldies top the market whether calves, steers, bred heifers or pairs. Good red Angus and Hereford pairs sell well. The dock has decreased greatly. Many breeders here are now using horned Hereford bulls on Angus cows. I have looked for a quality polled bull for several years. Will likely go pick up another horned bull next week

 

[SBMF 2015]

Around here Angus/Hereford baldies top the market whether calves, steers, bred heifers or pairs. Good red Angus and Hereford pairs sell well. The dock has decreased greatly. Many breeders here are now using horned Hereford bulls on Angus cows. I have looked for a quality polled bull for several years. Will likely go pick up another horned bull next week

That's pretty much how it is around here.
We have a production sale in march. BWF pair's always top the females. Black angus bulls top the bulls. The f1 bwf bull sold better than the average of the angus. When the Hereford bulls come in the ring everyone sits on their hands. Everyone wants BWF, but nobody seems to want to build their own.

 

[Dave]

I haven't even seen a polled Hereford bull around here. But I do see a fair number of horned Hereford bulls. There are two big time registered bull breeders here. One Angus and one horned Hereford. The Hereford bulls have been out selling the Angus bulls by a significant margin the last few years. This year the Hereford breeder averaged $8320 on 100+ yearling bulls. I couldn't find a number of this years Angus bull sale but last year they averaged $4700.

 

[Ky hills]

BWF steers and heifers have always been well received here. When I was selling bred heifers, my BWF often topped the market and were always right around the top. Once I topped it with some red Hereford heifers. We were planning on having to bring them back home.
Currently, here Hereford bulls are hot along with Simmental.
Passed by a farm of a neighbor the other day that the last time I heard has 800 cows. On the farm we passed by there were Charolais cross calves and saw Charolais bulls in the field.
Angus bulls are still popular and will always be, but sure has been looking for several years like lots of people are using other kinds of bulls instead.