College debt..... really really smart people..

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ddd75

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you know... how much 'education' == how smart you are.. unfortunately... wealth creation is tied to intelligence..

In many ways, Daniel Strong is happy with his life. He owns a three-bedroom ranch-style house in Charlottesville, Virginia, where he lives with his wife and 3-year-old son, Benjamin. He recently made the last payment on his silver, Toyota Tacoma. He likes his job.

But there's one problem that won't go away.

Strong and his wife owe more than $350,000 for their bachelor's and master's degrees.

"The huge monster in the closet for me are these student loans that keep getting bigger and bigger," said Strong, 36. When they graduated, they were faced with monthly bills of around $800 each and have since struggled to keep up.

"It's so stressful to think about the fact that you're probably going to have to work until you drop dead at work because of your student loans," Strong said.

Ten years after the 2008 financial crisis, there are headlines of record low unemployment and a booming economy. Yet one area has only worsened over the decade and threatens that recovery: student debt. Average debt at graduation is currently around $30,000, up from $10,000 in the early 1990s. The country's outstanding student loan balance is projected to swell to $2 trillion by 2022, and experts say a large portion of it is unlikely to ever be repaid; nearly a quarter of student loan borrowers are currently in a state of delinquency or default. Because of these loans, many Americans are unable to buy houses and cars, start businesses and families, save or invest.

Borrowing is unlikely to slow any time soon, as the cost of an education in this country is only rising. State funding for public colleges fell by $9 billion between 2008 and 2017, and schools have filled the gap with tuition hikes. Last year, for the first time, half of all states relied more heavily on tuition than on government appropriations to fund higher public education. On average, Americans now spend $30,000 per student a year, twice as much as the average developed country.

Has the student loan market become a bubble? That's a fair question, said Barmak Nassirian, director of federal relations at the American Association of State Colleges and Universities.

"Cost escalation, which would normally be met with consumer resistance, is being facilitated by the easy availability of credit," Nassirian said. "It's disturbingly similar to what happened to tank the mortgage market."

Defaults on the rise

In his mid-50s, Claude Richardson returned to college in the hopes of finding himself a new career. He attended two for-profit schools — the University of Phoenix online, and the New England Institute of Art. He said the education at both schools proved disappointing, and he never found a job in his field of study, information technology.

Instead, the 65-year-old man works 60 hours a week as a driver for a transportation company. He makes $8 an hour. He can't remember the last time he took a vacation. He doesn't pay for cable, since he has no free time to relax in front of a television.

He feels helpless when he looks at his student loan balance of more than $160,000. He has defaulted multiple times. "If I could pay, I would," Richardson said.


The student loan default rate more than doubled between 2003 and 2011, according to Education Department data. Forty percent of student borrowers are expected to default on their loans by 2023, according to the Brookings Institute.

"There's over 8 million people who are currently in default on their federal loans — it continues to be a large number, despite other improvements in the economy," said Persis Yu, director of the Student Loan Borrower Assistance Project at the National Consumer Law Center, a nonprofit advocacy group.

In a recent study, two researchers sought to understand why the student loan default rate has risen so sharply. Half of the uptick, they found, could be explained by the simultaneous rise in nontraditional students, like Richardson — or those who attended for-profit institutions. Many for-profit colleges have come under scrutiny for their high costs and poor outcomes, and half of their student loan borrowers default.

The share of nontraditional students rose by 17 percent from 2006 to 2009. Meanwhile, the percentage of federal financial aid going to for-profit colleges nearly doubled between 1996 and 2012. Today, these schools take in around 15 percent of the government's financial aid, down from a high of 19 percent.

"Predatory colleges target the same low-income populations that the subprime mortgage boom targeted by offering a similar promise of white picket fences and higher education as part of the American middle class dream," Toby Merrill, director of the Harvard Law School's Project on Predatory Student Lending, said in a recent interview.

The Obama administration cracked down on for-profit schools, but the Education Department under President Donald Trump has taken a friendlier approach. The current administration's proposals include making it harder for former students who claim they've been defrauded by their schools to get their debt canceled and relaxing the standards for-profit schools must meet to keep their federal funding.

The result of rolling back rules meant to protect borrowers and drive better value is predictable, said James Kvaal, president of The Institute for College Access & Success. "Defaults will go up," he said.

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Schools of questionable quality are hardly the only problem driving the rise in defaults. Also to blame is an unfortunate confluence of rising tuition and wage stagnation, said Mark Kantrowitz, publisher of SavingForCollege.com.

"Family income has been flat, so their ability to pay for college has not changed even as college costs have increased," he said. As a result, more families take on loans to cover the bills.

"Starting salaries have not grown as fast as average debt at graduation," he said. "This causes debt-to-income ratios to increase, a sign that more borrowers are graduating with more debt than they can easily afford to repay."

Distrust and interest

Colette Simone borrowed $200,000 in private and federal loans to attain her doctorate degree at the Michigan School of Professional Psychology in the early 2000s.

After graduation, her student loan bill was around $1,600. She tried to make those payments, but with entry level salaries it was difficult. She repeatedly postponed the loan payments, causing the balance to grow even more, thanks to interest. At one point, her bill was as high as $5,000 a month. She eventually stopped paying her private loans. "They wouldn't negotiate beyond a certain amount," Simone said, "which I didn't have."

She has paid around $90,000 of the debt by now, but it has ballooned to more than $400,000. The 65-year-old woman fears the government will soon garnish a portion of her Social Security.

She says the whole ordeal has left her disillusioned with the country. "If you want to get ahead, you have to go into debt," Simone said. "And then the whole debt structure is rigged to make sure you're never going to get out of it."


Many student loan borrowers today express resentment and distrust toward their lenders and the companies that administer federal loan programs.

A recent government report found that some schools hire companies that don't present student loan borrowers with their best options. Meanwhile, one of the largest student loan servicers — Navient, is being sued by five states and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau for allegedly misleading borrowers. The bureau accuses Navient of steering struggling borrowers toward multiple postponements of their loans instead of into income-driven repayment plans, which cap monthly payments at a percentage of the borrower's income. (Navient disputes all allegations.)

"Navient's conduct is estimated to have added $4 billion to the national student loan debt," said Attorney General Jim Hood of Mississippi, one of the states suing the loan servicer. "Students are the future of our state, and the presence of companies in Mississippi that knowingly take advantage of students who need the money to continue their education will not be allowed under my watch."

National Consumer Law Center's Yu said the distrust borrowers express is often well-founded.

"Servicing issues is something that is very much similar to the mortgage crisis," Yu said. "In both circumstances we have consumers getting bad information."

Slow, simmering consequences

There is some math that haunts Dallas Benson, a 48-year-old mother of two.

The monthly rent for her two-bedroom house in Zebulon, North Carolina, is around $1,100. She has lived there for just four years, and has already paid her landlord about $50,000. She recently checked the home's value: it's only worth about $100,000. "It's heart-breaking," Benson said. "If that could have gone into me owning the house, life would be incredibly different."

But with $600,000 in student loans, finding a landlord who would rent to her was hard. Benson and her ex-husband's student debt, which started at around $150,000 in the 1990s, has ballooned from interest and late fees. She studied sociology at the University of Texas at San Antonio and now is a government property manager.

The massive debt has pushed her credit score down to the low 400s. (The lowest possible score is 300). And it has harmed more than just her chances at home-ownership, she said.

"Buying a car is too difficult. I have nothing saved up for retirement at all," Benson said. "I look to the future, and I feel like I'm going to be that 80-year-old woman saying 'Hi, welcome to Walmart.'"

The damage of the financial crisis in 2008 reverberated across financial institutions and triggered the failure of major banks. The damage of student debt is more personal and insidious, said Constantine Yannelis, assistant professor of finance at the University of Chicago's Booth School of Business.

"The fact that we're not going to have a Lehman Brothers' moment doesn't mean that there aren't tremendously important effects of student debt on the broader, macro economy and on growth," Yannelis said.

Earlier this year Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell said, "as student loans continue to grow and become larger and larger, ... it absolutely could hold back growth."

A growing body of research examines how student debt hinders people financially. A recent analysis by the Urban Institute found that a 1 percent increase in student debt decreases the likelihood of owning a house by 15 percentage points. As student debt rises, young entrepreneurship is also falling. By the time college graduates reach age 30, the ones without student loans are predicted to have double the amount saved for retirement as those with them, according to a study by the Center for Retirement Research at Boston College.


"This goes beyond the simple matter of family finances for a small subset of the population," said Nassirian, at the American Association of State Colleges and Universities. "It's going to be very consequential for the future of the country."






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oh booooo hooo.. why can't I NOT WORK and I HAVE BILLS TO PAY!??! WHAT??

someone.. BAIL ME OUT!! I laid around, spent all my money on an apartment, clothes, etc.. racked my debt up to 6 figures and WHY OH WHY do I have a problem? I'm EDUCATED!! I'm ELITE!! I'm better then you!!! >. "hey will you loan me a 5?" :lol2:


And of course these people ALL want you to feel sorry for them.


My wife worked FULL TIME while going to school and we paid her bachelors off about 6 years after she graduated. I think she only had about 20k in loans. (mid 2000's) Books, material, house, etc.. all paid out of pocket from hard work..


:deadhorse:
 
It is a burden. You have to plan. I don't know what a parent does that has 4 children. I only had one son. I started a trust fund when he was about 6. A trust allows it to grow and is sheltered from taxes. You have to declare it their money. Every chance I got, I put money into it.

Clint used it to assist all the way to a PhD. He had several scholarships at the Undergraduate level at Montana State in Bozeman where he got his BS in microbiology. With the assistance of the scholarships, we bought him his first car.

After graduation, he went to the University of Louisville Medical School where he studied Protein Biology. It was a research/study situation and got paid to cover his expenses. His car died. I flew down and bought him a brand new Toyota Corolla.

He then went to Vanderbilt University for his PhD in cancer cell biology. He got a stipend for a research assistanceship. The downside to that was they held on to him for way too long because they used him to keep him doing their research. It was frustrating how they mistreat the better candidates.

Long story, but in the end, he ended with ZERO debt.
 
Bright Raven":21t5b0xa said:
It is a burden. You have to plan. I don't know what a parent does that has 4 children. I only had one son. I started a trust fund when he was about 6. A trust allows it to grow and is sheltered from taxes. You have to declare it their money. Every chance I got, I put money into it.

Clint used it to assist all the way to a PhD. He had several scholarships at the Undergraduate level at Montana State in Bozeman where he got his BS in microbiology. With the assistance of the scholarships, we bought him his first car.

After graduation, he went to the University of Louisville Medical School where he studied Protein Biology. It was a research/study situation and got paid to cover his expenses. His car died. I flew down and bought him a brand new Toyota Corolla.

He then went to Vanderbilt University for his PhD in cancer cell biology. He got a stipend for a research assistanceship. The downside to that was they held on to him for way too long because they used him to keep him doing their research. It was frustrating how they mistreat the better candidates.

Long story, but in the end, he ended with ZERO debt.
That's exactly how it should work, except maybe at the end. If a kid is smart and wants to apply themselves there's no reason to have school debt. A lot of kids go off to school and spend scholarship money on everything but school. Paying to live is the parents or kids job not the taxpayers.
 
HDRider":1i5iwjiz said:
I paid $244 per semester for tuition. It was by far the best investment I ever made.
I averaged paying $2k a month for our son and it was the best investment ever. Hopefully I can get my daughter through as cheap.
 
http://www.higheredtoday.org/2018/05/21 ... dent-debt/

Ya' all are racist that's the problem....
Black students are 150% more likely to accumulate over $100,000 in student debt than white students.
12 years after entering college: Of students that graduate with a BA degree.
20% of black graduates default on their student loans vs 4% of whites and they also default at a higher rate than first
generation low income students.
Black students pay back 47% less of the principle owed than whites and 29% less than Hispanics.

The solution of course is to make college education free for everyone. ;-)

p.s.
I won't bring up that the average IQ of whites in college is 18 points higher than blacks because testing is racist too.
As is reviewing any information categorized by race. (Because all our children are above average.)
 
Son of Butch":388pixk3 said:
http://www.higheredtoday.org/2018/05/21/new-analysis-reinforces-racial-disparities-student-debt/

Ya' all are racist that's the problem....
Black students are 150% more likely to accumulate over $100,000 in student debt than white students.
12 years after entering college: Of students that graduate with a BA degree.
20% of black graduates default on their student loans vs 4% of whites and they also default at a higher rate than first
generation low income students.
Black students pay back 47% less of the principle owed than whites and 29% less than Hispanics.

The solution of course is to make college education free for everyone. ;-)

p.s.
I won't bring up that the average IQ of whites in college is 18 points higher than blacks because testing is racist too.
As is reviewing any information categorized by race. (Because all our children are above average.)
Want the government to pay for everything....go to North Korea, Russia, Cuba. Oh wait, they don't give you everything you want either. Guess that makes them racist too. :deadhorse:
 
Son of Butch":q9x3q26j said:
http://www.higheredtoday.org/2018/05/21/new-analysis-reinforces-racial-disparities-student-debt/

Ya' all are racist that's the problem....
Black students are 150% more likely to accumulate over $100,000 in student debt than white students.
12 years after entering college: Of students that graduate with a BA degree.
20% of black graduates default on their student loans vs 4% of whites and they also default at a higher rate than first
generation low income students.
Black students pay back 47% less of the principle owed than whites and 29% less than Hispanics.

The solution of course is to make college education free for everyone. ;-)

p.s.
I won't bring up that the average IQ of whites in college is 18 points higher than blacks because testing is racist too.
As is reviewing any information categorized by race. (Because all our children are above average.)
Around here in Telfair County 60% of the population is white but over 80% of the handicap parking stickers are black folks.
 
Son of Butch":1chury4g said:
To graduate high school passing a "Managing Personal Finances" class should be mandatory.

The circumstances of how you are raised has more to do with personal finances than taking a course. I was raised in a household that was so poor we didn't even have mice. Mice would come into the over 100 year-old-farm-house, scope it out and move to the poor family next door - who were almost as poor but at least they had the luxury of dropping bits of food on the floor - we didn't.

I am not complaining. At family reunions, me and my siblings are celebrities, telling stories of how we were raised. Dad was one of this world's oddlings - he would put running water in for a neighbor but we didn't have indoor plumbing until after I went to college. We bathed using a wash pan. I could go on but will not. Just put it this way - when I went to college, I was often asked why I didn't go home. I always thought that was odd. Why would I leave a place where I could shower, a nice warm place to shyt, and comfortable room with nice furnishings to go back to using an outhouse and washing in a wash pan.

My point is: it taught me more than any course on taking care of my assets.
 
Bright Raven":2nhyfdw8 said:
Son of Butch":2nhyfdw8 said:
To graduate high school passing a "Managing Personal Finances" class should be mandatory.

The circumstances of how you are raised has more to do with personal finances than taking a course. I was raised in a household that was so poor we didn't even have mice. Mice would come into the over 100 year-old-farm-house, scope it out and move to the poor family next door - who were almost as poor but at least they had the luxury of dropping bits of food on the floor - we didn't.

I am not complaining. At family reunions, me and my siblings are celebrities, telling stories of how we were raised. Dad was one of this world's oddlings - he would put running water in for a neighbor but we didn't have indoor plumbing until after I went to college. We bathed using a wash pan. I could go on but will not. Just put it this way - when I went to college, I was often asked why I didn't go home. I always thought that was odd. Why would I leave a place where I could shower, a nice warm place to shyt, and comfortable room with nice furnishings to go back to using an outhouse and washing in a wash pan.

My point is: it taught me more than any course on taking care of my assets.
When I was in high school, vocational ag and homemaking classes were still offered. So why does a farm boy or girl need to take those courses? Most don't cause the probably could teach the class but the class could be beneficial for the many "city kids" that grow up without a clue. Guess I basically had he same asset management course as you. Assuming a similar work ethic course. I had good role models for teachers. So many aren't as fortunate and could use some guidance.
 
If you get through college, 4 years and have 50k plus debt that is a lot to pay back and it is not dischargable in bankruptcy (you will pay as they will even take you tax refund).
 
Costs have certainly increased. I started college in the late 80s. I didn't live in campus. My entire 4 years cost around $10,000. $1,000 per semester covered books and tuition easily.

As for my kids, I never had any specific college fund, I just managed money in general so I would have enough when the time came. My daughters expenses are about 17,000 a year. Luckily, she has a part-time job to handle odds and ends.
 
True Grit Farms":31xwpeh2 said:
HDRider":31xwpeh2 said:
I paid $244 per semester for tuition. It was by far the best investment I ever made.
I averaged paying $2k a month for our son and it was the best investment ever. Hopefully I can get my daughter through as cheap.
That is about what my kids were too.
 
When I went to college (I only went two years) I went drove back and forth and still worked a full time job. My parents paid for my books, which I bought used. I paid for gas, food, vehicle, and insurance. Lived at home.

Nothing wrong with Princeton or Yale. But people need to learn to live within their means. If you or your parents can afford it, go wherever you want. If you can't afford it get a job and go to a local community college. They're everywhere. Get your feet under you. Learn to do without. It will make you appreciate what you have later in life.

A lot of people are just stupid. I don't know another way to put it. They jump before they look to see if there's any water in the pool.
 
Son of Butch":c5anda3t said:
To graduate high school passing a "Managing Personal Finances" class should be mandatory.

Could not agree more! :clap:
 

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