Calf prices

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I'm not sure what's going on here. This isn't hard to change though.

Preg check your cows and ship the open ones now. Prices are too high to keep free loaders.

Post a picture of new bull and some of your cows. The guys on here know thier cows and can help. They can also give you an idea on acceptable weaning weights of your cows.

With that kind of conception rate and weaning weights there's something wrong. I would worry maybe you're overstocked and not meeting their nutrition needs. Don't worry about backgrounding or buying more until you get higher conception rates and good weaning weights at 7 months with the cows that come up bred after being exposed for around 60 days to your new bull
 
I have been reading through this thread and I think you are trying to do what is right. Most people in your area wean calves at 6 to 9 months that weigh 450 to 700 lbs. Some will wean and background or "precondition" the calves by steering the bulls and giving two rounds of vaccinations that include blackleg, upper respiratory viruses, pasteurella and hemophilus somnus. These calves will be sold at special preconditioned sales. Others will just wean on the trailer and head to the sale barn. From your situation, I would start with:
1. sell the cow that did not calve last year of the year before NOW. Packer cows are high right now.
2. Identify your cows so that you can keep a record of when they calve.
3. This fall, have your cows preg checked. Sell the open cows before you feed them all winter.
4. Since you are a 1 bull outfit, buy your replacements instead of saving heifers. You don;t have to change bulls as often as you will not be breeding a bull to his daughters.
5. Watch for "death or divorce" sales at your local markets. You have 5 markets within 50 to 60 miles of you (Henderson, Carthage, Center, Nacogdoches and Tri-County @ New Summerfield). Those cows got sold because of someone's life event not because they are culls.
6. Steer your bull calves, especially if you sell over 500 lbs. There is a $5 to $8 or more advantage especially in the fall for steers.
7. Continue to ask questions. Let us know what works for you. The rest of us may pick up on something you did that could help us.
 
BC said:
I have been reading through this thread and I think you are trying to do what is right. Most people in your area wean calves at 6 to 9 months that weigh 450 to 700 lbs. Some will wean and background or "precondition" the calves by steering the bulls and giving two rounds of vaccinations that include blackleg, upper respiratory viruses, pasteurella and hemophilus somnus. These calves will be sold at special preconditioned sales. Others will just wean on the trailer and head to the sale barn. From your situation, I would start with:
1. sell the cow that did not calve last year of the year before NOW. Packer cows are high right now.
2. Identify your cows so that you can keep a record of when they calve.
3. This fall, have your cows preg checked. Sell the open cows before you feed them all winter.
4. Since you are a 1 bull outfit, buy your replacements instead of saving heifers. You don;t have to change bulls as often as you will not be breeding a bull to his daughters.
5. Watch for "death or divorce" sales at your local markets. You have 5 markets within 50 to 60 miles of you (Henderson, Carthage, Center, Nacogdoches and Tri-County @ New Summerfield). Those cows got sold because of someone's life event not because they are culls.
6. Steer your bull calves, especially if you sell over 500 lbs. There is a $5 to $8 or more advantage especially in the fall for steers.
7. Continue to ask questions. Let us know what works for you. The rest of us may pick up on something you did that could help us.
Click to expand...
Amen. Especially #4 and #5
 
50/50Farms said:
What kind of bull was this last light bunch out of?
Click to expand...
And, do you know which cows were the dams, @gman4691 ? IF those calves were 500-600lbs, then there is something funky going on in your gene pool. That would be what a 6-7 mos old weight would be. Unless all 5 were related, then it is most likely in the bull's side rather than the cows'.
 
gman4691 said:
Brangus for sure
Click to expand...
Brangus for sure...I think you (and some others) may be onto something with the genetics. Many of the cows have that classic brangus look. However, there have been cows out here since at least 1958 of varying breeds (hereford, brahma, beefmaster, possibly another one or two) and it's impossible for me to know what was kept or sold over the years - so no telling what may be hiding in the gene pool. Several look very similar to charolais although there have never been any of that breed out here or at the neighbors to my knowledge. The genetics of the current herd is virtually impossible to nail down - way too many variables over way too much time. Mr. Allison and I ruled out any nutritional issues pretty quick - but it was a good thing to consider. Genetics however is another ball of string altogether - and far to complicated for my little peanut brain. Having given it some thought after reading input from other members here (and that input, though a bit overwhelming at first is greatly appreciated), the thought ran through my mind of possibly selling this motley bunch and then buying open brangus cows to replace them. At least that would narrow down the question of genetics. And we are in a position to make it through the waiting period for the cows to start calving and see what we've got. That makes me a bit squeamish but it would whittle down the variables considerably. A cattleman that is going to do some fencing work out here for me this year runs about 150 cattle and says he sells at about 6-8 months and hits that 800+ lbs. with his steers. So I think your suggestion regarding genetics is an excellent point. Now if I can just talk myself into a complete turnover...not an easy thing to do. My science background is more earth sciences than biology but I do understand the value in simplifying by reducing variables (kind of an Occam's Razor thing). My best successes in life thus far have been through simplifying things - getting past the weeds and down to the bottom line. As mentioned in a different thread, my 83 year old mother & I are nothing if not brutally pragmatic. Any idea what to expect to pay for an open brangus cow - say maybe 2-3 years old?

Lots of good input here - some isn't really relevant to our operation (like finishing, but does provide some good insight) - and I'll repeat that it is all greatly appreciated. As stated previously, we aren't a large operation but I wouldn't say we are a "hobby farm" either - not by a long shot. There are no "pet" cattle here.
 
Warren Allison said:
Amen. Especially #4 and #5
Click to expand...
BC said:
I have been reading through this thread and I think you are trying to do what is right. Most people in your area wean calves at 6 to 9 months that weigh 450 to 700 lbs. Some will wean and background or "precondition" the calves by steering the bulls and giving two rounds of vaccinations that include blackleg, upper respiratory viruses, pasteurella and hemophilus somnus. These calves will be sold at special preconditioned sales. Others will just wean on the trailer and head to the sale barn. From your situation, I would start with:
1. sell the cow that did not calve last year of the year before NOW. Packer cows are high right now.
2. Identify your cows so that you can keep a record of when they calve.
3. This fall, have your cows preg checked. Sell the open cows before you feed them all winter.
4. Since you are a 1 bull outfit, buy your replacements instead of saving heifers. You don;t have to change bulls as often as you will not be breeding a bull to his daughters.
5. Watch for "death or divorce" sales at your local markets. You have 5 markets within 50 to 60 miles of you (Henderson, Carthage, Center, Nacogdoches and Tri-County @ New Summerfield). Those cows got sold because of someone's life event not because they are culls.
6. Steer your bull calves, especially if you sell over 500 lbs. There is a $5 to $8 or more advantage especially in the fall for steers.
7. Continue to ask questions. Let us know what works for you. The rest of us may pick up on something you did that could help us.
Click to expand...
#1) in the process of doing just that
#2) have a pretty good record of that this year - some uncertainties about last year - the years before that I wasn't really that involved - this operation was started by my grandfather in 1958 - I've lived too far away to get out here much for the past 20+ years - just took over in August 2021 and wasn't able to monitor closely until late spring 2022 due to family medical issues (caring for Dad is his last days)
#3) this one will depend on what we decide - see #4
#4) giving some consideration to a complete turn-over due to the fact that it is virtually impossible to nail down the genetics of this motley crew - could probably do some kind of DNA testing but I feel cost wouldn't be warranted given the current situation - may be easier to just get rid of these and buy some with known genetics and trim down the variables.
#5) hadn't thought of that - I'll check into it once I have a firm decision on #4
#6) we do this with all of our bull calves - always have
#7) 50/50 and some others (can't remeber who all of them were and too lazy to scroll back through - lol) have brought up the question of genetics which, as it turns out, can get pretty dang complicated pretty dang fast - at this point, I think that might be the best avenue to explore. I can take good care of cows, fences, and pastures but am a bit of a rookie on the auction barn sale process and totally a rookie when it comes to genetics.

None the less, all info received thus far is greatly appreciated.
 
Very rare to hit 800 lbs with 8 month weaners in Texas unless you are creep feeding them. Try for 625 for spring calvers on mama and pasture only. Fall calvers are lucky to do 575.
Take your time and pick through your cows with good records. It won't take a year or so to find out which ones need to go to town.
 
gman4691 said:
Brangus for sure...I think you (and some others) may be onto something with the genetics. Many of the cows have that classic brangus look. However, there have been cows out here since at least 1958 of varying breeds (hereford, brahma, beefmaster, possibly another one or two) and it's impossible for me to know what was kept or sold over the years - so no telling what may be hiding in the gene pool. Several look very similar to charolais although there have never been any of that breed out here or at the neighbors to my knowledge. The genetics of the current herd is virtually impossible to nail down - way too many variables over way too much time. Mr. Allison and I ruled out any nutritional issues pretty quick - but it was a good thing to consider. Genetics however is another ball of string altogether - and far to complicated for my little peanut brain. Having given it some thought after reading input from other members here (and that input, though a bit overwhelming at first is greatly appreciated), the thought ran through my mind of possibly selling this motley bunch and then buying open brangus cows to replace them. At least that would narrow down the question of genetics. And we are in a position to make it through the waiting period for the cows to start calving and see what we've got. That makes me a bit squeamish but it would whittle down the variables considerably. A cattleman that is going to do some fencing work out here for me this year runs about 150 cattle and says he sells at about 6-8 months and hits that 800+ lbs. with his steers. So I think your suggestion regarding genetics is an excellent point. Now if I can just talk myself into a complete turnover...not an easy thing to do. My science background is more earth sciences than biology but I do understand the value in simplifying by reducing variables (kind of an Occam's Razor thing). My best successes in life thus far have been through simplifying things - getting past the weeds and down to the bottom line. As mentioned in a different thread, my 83 year old mother & I are nothing if not brutally pragmatic. Any idea what to expect to pay for an open brangus cow - say maybe 2-3 years old?

Lots of good input here - some isn't really relevant to our operation (like finishing, but does provide some good insight) - and I'll repeat that it is all greatly appreciated. As stated previously, we aren't a large operation but I wouldn't say we are a "hobby farm" either - not by a long shot. There are no "pet" cattle here.
Click to expand...
I don't know that I'd sell out entirely and start over from scratch, with cow prices like they are right now your buy-in price won't be recovered for a long time. Selection takes time and effort, there are very few, if any quick solution one-stop-shops in livestock, and whatever they might be they will be expensive enough for only rich men to talk about doing. You're cutting your own hay, the land is presumably paid for, and you're looking at animals with their legs pointing down, you're already ahead of the curve as is. Do some culling as you see it needed and buy solid replacement (cows, not heifers because it sounds like y'all leave the bull in, but that's my opinion). Some of what you have may be gold, some may not be, the only way to know is in the doing. Good replacements would be cheap if you found them under $1,400 right now, fine enough for one or two or three or five but I sure as shi7 wouldn't want to buy 20 of them in this economy and weather pattern.
 
I agree on the genetics might be causing the small sized calves. But that is not all...

Do you have a head catch where a vet could come in and preg check?

This would be my order of priorities right now;
#1... Get cows preg checked. Find out their condition. If you decide to sell them that is still a plus for any you sell .... they can do that at the sale yard... BUT ,,, if you have calves on the ground now no reason to ship them... let them eat and grow....
AND get them "mouthed".... check the teeth... they might be older than you think...

#2.... ANY open or short bred should be candidates for shipping...you already know at least one that has not produced last year or this year...
Cull/pound cows are bringing good prices. Turn non-productive cows into money and maybe buy a few "better cows" that have small calves on the ground or are due to calve soon...
The advice to check on any dispersal sales is good... Those cows are not "culls"..... they are victims of circumstances.

#3.... Once you know the status of the cows, you will be able to determine if you want to just keep the ones there for the grazing season, or ship the whole lot. Then you can make an informed decision on weaning and feeding the calves for 30-90 days as preconditioning if you want to try it.

#4.... spend some time sitting at the stockyard/sale barns and just watch and listen... you will soon pick up on the better weights for selling... what the buyers want there. Take the cull cows from your vet checking, and then sit and see what the preferred sizes and weights... and if the "vaccinated and weaned" calves bring enough extra to make it worth it.
By the way, at this time in the cattle cycle, you will not see as much of a premium for weaned and vaccinated as when things are in the down cycle.... and right now bull calves are not being as discounted as much as when it is in the down years... and partially because it is because there are fewer around with the decreased cow numbers so people are willing to pay more for bull calves just to be able to get some. Normally bull calves will take a $.25 - $.40 hit below the same steer calves... right now they are running only about $.10 - $.20 lower at many of our sales here.

I also would not keep any heifers at this stage... get through this year and get a basis. I am not saying that selling all would not be a way to do better..... but with the prices now, you will pay DEARLY to replace the whole herd.... might be better to get rid of the non-productive ones, keep the ones with calves and add a few "better ones" if the opportunity arises.
 
Nothing wrong with a motley crew of cows as long as they raise good calves. Just get the best bull or bulls you can. Cull out cows that come in open or raise a sub par calf. Keep replacements that are daughters of your good bull. If you want to clean house and buy all new cows, I would wait about 3 years and you will buy those cows for half what they would cost today.
 
50/50Farms said:
I don't know that I'd sell out entirely and start over from scratch, with cow prices like they are right now your buy-in price won't be recovered for a long time. Selection takes time and effort, there are very few, if any quick solution one-stop-shops in livestock, and whatever they might be they will be expensive enough for only rich men to talk about doing. You're cutting your own hay, the land is presumably paid for, and you're looking at animals with their legs pointing down, you're already ahead of the curve as is. Do some culling as you see it needed and buy solid replacement (cows, not heifers because it sounds like y'all leave the bull in, but that's my opinion). Some of what you have may be gold, some may not be, the only way to know is in the doing. Good replacements would be cheap if you found them under $1,400 right now, fine enough for one or two or three or five but I sure as shi7 wouldn't want to buy 20 of them in this economy and weather pattern.
Click to expand...
That is also a consideration and has occurred to me...especially the economics. Culling can begin right away as I have 2 that need to go right off. There is a third but she calved this spring...will have to wait for that one...she appears to be getting a bit long in tooth...just hoping she can make it about September. There is a fourth I am undecided about - she's a good cow, makes good calves, and is a good mother...at the same time, she is a little on the wild side...not completely crazy but wild enough to know not to turn my back on her if she is penned up or with calf (which she is at the moment)...tempted to keep her with the fencing improvements we're doing this spring/summer...or at least keep her calf (female not from the current bull).
 
farmerjan said:
I agree on the genetics might be causing the small sized calves. But that is not all...

Do you have a head catch where a vet could come in and preg check?

This would be my order of priorities right now;
#1... Get cows preg checked. Find out their condition. If you decide to sell them that is still a plus for any you sell .... they can do that at the sale yard... BUT ,,, if you have calves on the ground now no reason to ship them... let them eat and grow....
AND get them "mouthed".... check the teeth... they might be older than you think...

#2.... ANY open or short bred should be candidates for shipping...you already know at least one that has not produced last year or this year...
Cull/pound cows are bringing good prices. Turn non-productive cows into money and maybe buy a few "better cows" that have small calves on the ground or are due to calve soon...
The advice to check on any dispersal sales is good... Those cows are not "culls"..... they are victims of circumstances.

#3.... Once you know the status of the cows, you will be able to determine if you want to just keep the ones there for the grazing season, or ship the whole lot. Then you can make an informed decision on weaning and feeding the calves for 30-90 days as preconditioning if you want to try it.

#4.... spend some time sitting at the stockyard/sale barns and just watch and listen... you will soon pick up on the better weights for selling... what the buyers want there. Take the cull cows from your vet checking, and then sit and see what the preferred sizes and weights... and if the "vaccinated and weaned" calves bring enough extra to make it worth it.
By the way, at this time in the cattle cycle, you will not see as much of a premium for weaned and vaccinated as when things are in the down cycle.... and right now bull calves are not being as discounted as much as when it is in the down years... and partially because it is because there are fewer around with the decreased cow numbers so people are willing to pay more for bull calves just to be able to get some. Normally bull calves will take a $.25 - $.40 hit below the same steer calves... right now they are running only about $.10 - $.20 lower at many of our sales here.

I also would not keep any heifers at this stage... get through this year and get a basis. I am not saying that selling all would not be a way to do better..... but with the prices now, you will pay DEARLY to replace the whole herd.... might be better to get rid of the non-productive ones, keep the ones with calves and add a few "better ones" if the opportunity arises.
Click to expand...
"...pay dearly to replace the whole herd..." - and THAT is also going through my mind...50/50 said the same thing. I've already got a couple that can go right now...one or two more that may have to go but not until about Sept-Oct. as they both have calves - one is just past her prime (but had a nice little heifer this year) nonetheless she's one of the older cows and has trouble getting around (no disease, just old)...the other has been resistant to the "re-domestication" program and is even more aggressive when she has a calf (which she does currently)...jury is still out on her...she's a good cow, has good calves, is a good mother just has enough unpredictability in disposition to make me wary of her...she's big and cantankerous and could easily hurt someone.
 
bird dog said:
Very rare to hit 800 lbs with 8 month weaners in Texas unless you are creep feeding them. Try for 625 for spring calvers on mama and pasture only. Fall calvers are lucky to do 575.
Take your time and pick through your cows with good records. It won't take a year or so to find out which ones need to go to town.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure he is feeding them...creep feed along with the occasional grain-based feed...sounded that way to me.
 
gman4691 said:
"...pay dearly to replace the whole herd..." - and THAT is also going through my mind...50/50 said the same thing. I've already got a couple that can go right now...one or two more that may have to go but not until about Sept-Oct. as they both have calves - one is just past her prime (but had a nice little heifer this year) nonetheless she's one of the older cows and has trouble getting around (no disease, just old)...the other has been resistant to the "re-domestication" program and is even more aggressive when she has a calf (which she does currently)...jury is still out on her...she's a good cow, has good calves, is a good mother just has enough unpredictability in disposition to make me wary of her...she's big and cantankerous and could easily hurt someone.
Click to expand...
I think you have a good handle on things overall... yep, ship the couple that need to go NOW..... see how the couple with calves do by the time their calves are big enough to wean..... and the one that you are uneasy with... regardless of how "good of a calf" she raises... if you are wary of her, you NOT getting hurt or a broken leg or something, is worth more than the best "million dollar calf" that she can raise.... let her finish out this calf and if she is still being that unpredictable..... BYE, BYE.....
And watch for a dispersal sale and such.... and maybe pick up a couple of decent cows here and there....
We buy some of the "older cows" because they are older for a reason..... they have done their job good enough for the farmer to have kept them around in most cases..... We seldom ever buy heifers.... not knowing if you can just get a fair sized calf or if it is going to be a "babysit" deal 24/7 to make sure someone can help them if needed......and the unpredictability of a first time heifer to "get it" when it comes to taking a new calf.... Rather take those kind of chances with our own heifers as we know what they are bred to, and their age and all that good stuff....
 
gman4691 said:
Brangus for sure...I think you (and some others) may be onto something with the genetics. Many of the cows have that classic brangus look. However, there have been cows out here since at least 1958 of varying breeds (hereford, brahma, beefmaster, possibly another one or two) and it's impossible for me to know what was kept or sold over the years - so no telling what may be hiding in the gene pool. Several look very similar to charolais although there have never been any of that breed out here or at the neighbors to my knowledge. The genetics of the current herd is virtually impossible to nail down - way too many variables over way too much time. Mr. Allison and I ruled out any nutritional issues pretty quick - but it was a good thing to consider. Genetics however is another ball of string altogether - and far to complicated for my little peanut brain. Having given it some thought after reading input from other members here (and that input, though a bit overwhelming at first is greatly appreciated), the thought ran through my mind of possibly selling this motley bunch and then buying open brangus cows to replace them. At least that would narrow down the question of genetics. And we are in a position to make it through the waiting period for the cows to start calving and see what we've got. That makes me a bit squeamish but it would whittle down the variables considerably. A cattleman that is going to do some fencing work out here for me this year runs about 150 cattle and says he sells at about 6-8 months and hits that 800+ lbs. with his steers. So I think your suggestion regarding genetics is an excellent point. Now if I can just talk myself into a complete turnover...not an easy thing to do. My science background is more earth sciences than biology but I do understand the value in simplifying by reducing variables (kind of an Occam's Razor thing). My best successes in life thus far have been through simplifying things - getting past the weeds and down to the bottom line. As mentioned in a different thread, my 83 year old mother & I are nothing if not brutally pragmatic. Any idea what to expect to pay for an open brangus cow - say maybe 2-3 years old?

Lots of good input here - some isn't really relevant to our operation (like finishing, but does provide some good insight) - and I'll repeat that it is all greatly appreciated. As stated previously, we aren't a large operation but I wouldn't say we are a "hobby farm" either - not by a long shot. There are no "pet" cattle here.
Click to expand...
 

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