Calf prices

[gman4691]

How old were the ones you jut sold?

about 12 months...not fed out...just allowed to feed with the rest of the cows with normal feeding in winter...grazing and occasional 20% cubes when the grass is growing enough for grazing. We've always sold as beef. It is my understanding, the heifer also sold as beef due to the demand being so high at the moment.

 

[gman4691]

Unless you're in a totally different east Texas than I lived and worked in, you do not know many people waiting 12 months to go to the sale barn with a critter, especially if you're going to the Nac or Crockett sale barn. If you do know many like that, they're hobbying it and nothing more. I had some time between stuff and hired on for day work as early as a few months ago for an operation out of Cherokee county and their goal was 6-8 months.

The biggest operation in the area that I know of deals mostly in 6-8 month old calves off of their own cows and stockers they get to that age.

I am assuming they were feeding them rather just letting them run with the rest of the cows(?) I can see them putting on more weight faster that way...just haven't put a pencil to cost of feed vs. price at the sale barn. I haven't separated a steer out for feeding since the 10th grade for Ag class...I'm guessing those were probably around 6 months old at the beginning of the school year...but that's just a guess. Don't remember how much they weighed. I do know feeding out one steer in my freshman year paid better in the end than feeding 2 in the 10th grade...prices weren't that great back then. So the advice would be to start feeding them at about 5 months and then sell at about 8 months for a better weight gain and better return on costs(?) Any input would be appreciated.

 

[50/50Farms]

I am assuming they were feeding them rather just letting them run with the rest of the cows(?) I can see them putting on more weight faster that way...

The outfit running their own calves and also stockers feeds the stockers, as does everyone as far as I know. As far as feeding pasture calves? No offense but why hell no, at six months old they're still dragging on the test in addition to foraging. Unless you have a market for 20 animals fed out for freezer beef, you're gonna get a bunch of holes punched in the bottom of your pocket if you pull calves off of mama and feed them until 12 months. There's a reason most people sell at 6-8 months. Now, if you want to pull them and background them for a spell, there's some people on here who have good luck with that, @Ky hills I believe does that.

So the advice would be to start feeding them at about 5 months and then sell at about 8 months for a better weight gain and better return on costs(?) Any input would be appreciated.

I don't personally see it passing the pencil test where you are unless you have a good source of feed in bulk, walk-in feed store prices kill folks, even range cubes were $14 a bag when I last bought some there. But if you can make that work and that's what you want to do, it will beat the pants off of keeping them for a year unless you want to sell replacements.

 

[Ky hills]

The outfit running their own calves and also stockers feeds the stockers, as does everyone as far as I know. As far as feeding pasture calves? No offense but why hell no, at six months old they're still dragging on the test in addition to foraging. Unless you have a market for 20 animals fed out for freezer beef, you're gonna get a bunch of holes punched in the bottom of your pocket if you pull calves off of mama and feed them until 12 months. There's a reason most people sell at 6-8 months. Now, if you want to pull them and background them for a spell, there's some people on here who have good luck with that, @Ky hills I believe does that.


I don't personally see it passing the pencil test where you are unless you have a good source of feed in bulk, walk-in feed store prices kill folks, even range cubes were $14 a bag when I last bought some there. But if you can make that work and that's what you want to do, it will beat the pants off of keeping them for a year unless you want to sell replacements.

We do wean most of our calves and have them on feed and pasture for 2-3 months . They are also vaccinated 2 rounds too.
That way we can sell them as value added. In theory you get around .15-.25 per pound more at the present time.
The vaccines and feed do give extra cost and you are assuming more risk by keeping them through that period. We generally don't have much health issues at that point though. The biggest concern is the market, usually the runs have started and prices dropped by the time your spring calves have been weaned that long and it's a wash if that happens. We start calving a little earlier than most so helps some, but then you have to really watch them weather wise then. So many factors so many variables all the way around with anything you do.

 

[gman4691]

The outfit running their own calves and also stockers feeds the stockers, as does everyone as far as I know. As far as feeding pasture calves? No offense but why hell no, at six months old they're still dragging on the test in addition to foraging. Unless you have a market for 20 animals fed out for freezer beef, you're gonna get a bunch of holes punched in the bottom of your pocket if you pull calves off of mama and feed them until 12 months. There's a reason most people sell at 6-8 months. Now, if you want to pull them and background them for a spell, there's some people on here who have good luck with that, @Ky hills I believe does that.


I don't personally see it passing the pencil test where you are unless you have a good source of feed in bulk, walk-in feed store prices kill folks, even range cubes were $14 a bag when I last bought some there. But if you can make that work and that's what you want to do, it will beat the pants off of keeping them for a year unless you want to sell replacements.

Well, this year we had 10 heifers and 1 bull calf - all born Feb.-Mar. So, your saying it would be best to sell what I'm going to sell (I will keep some of the heifers) around Oct.-Nov. for a better return(?) They are still on mostly milk now. It is my understanding that weaning can occur as early as 90 days (don't know what advantage or disadvantage that would be - I personally don't like the idea of weaning that young). And you are correct in that I see them still nursing well beyond that age. Incidentally, walk-in stores are currently charging about $12.94 for cubes - haven't priced bulk feed prices but I know some who are using it. The 4 steers I just sold were all in excess of 600 lbs. (and really good looking animals that got no special treatment other than what all the rest were getting) but I see some folks saying they are selling steers at 800 - 1100 lbs. That seems awfully big for 6-8 months unless they are on a really intense feeding program. Don't know...this end of things is a mystery to me. Have read suggested selling ages ranging from 6 months to 32 months and suggested weights ranging from 500 lbs. to 1100 lbs. on some websites (I'm really starting to hate the internet - a mountain of good info buried in a mountain range of bad info - like looking for needle in a haystack.)

My thought was feeding them out for about three months before taking to sale barn...don't know what, if anything, would be gained from that. I have put a pencil to that and given what these last four brought, one or two animals would more than cover the cost of the feed provided they put on good weight and prices remain high. Never tried it like this...just feeling knowledgeable folks out. Might be better off just doing what we've always done - just feed them on the same program as the rest of herd.

Just out of curiosity: What is the reason most folks sell at 6-8 months?

 

[gman4691]

We do wean most of our calves and have them on feed and pasture for 2-3 months . They are also vaccinated 2 rounds too.
That way we can sell them as value added. In theory you get around .15-.25 per pound more at the present time.
The vaccines and feed do give extra cost and you are assuming more risk by keeping them through that period. We generally don't have much health issues at that point though. The biggest concern is the market, usually the runs have started and prices dropped by the time your spring calves have been weaned that long and it's a wash if that happens. We start calving a little earlier than most so helps some, but then you have to really watch them weather wise then. So many factors so many variables all the way around with anything you do.

Selling for beef or stockers? And this plan is what I had in mind for steers to be sold as beef. I understand the risks associated with weather and market prices (both pretty much unpredictable). At what age do you wean? I've seen suggestions ranging from 90 days to 6+ months. Mine are vaccinated for blackleg - steers get a ralgro implant.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I am assuming they were feeding them rather just letting them run with the rest of the cows(?) I can see them putting on more weight faster that way...just haven't put a pencil to cost of feed vs. price at the sale barn. I haven't separated a steer out for feeding since the 10th grade for Ag class...I'm guessing those were probably around 6 months old at the beginning of the school year...but that's just a guess. Don't remember how much they weighed. I do know feeding out one steer in my freshman year paid better in the end than feeding 2 in the 10th grade...prices weren't that great back then. So the advice would be to start feeding them at about 5 months and then sell at about 8 months for a better weight gain and better return on costs(?) Any input would be appreciated.

If your "calves" were 500-600# at a year old - you need to get a better bull to put on your cows. You should be weaning 500-600# commercial average type calves at 7 months old. Put a pencil to the cost of a good bull.
When people are saying "sell for beef" - they mean FINISH the animal to a grade of Choice and sell for freezer beef. Anything from 12 months to 18 months should be FINISHED on grain. Grass fed is longer - 18 months to 30 months - I do not like to eat grass fed - my preference. If I want grass fed, I take out some venison to eat.
You do not have to buy fancy feed. I have been raising cattle a long time. I sell breeding stock, show cattle, and I sell freezer beef. I prefer to get steers gone as soon as possible. My Jan/Feb born males are all gone by October. Weaned 1st week in September, put on whole shell corn with a protein pellet added and great hay. Start them at 1% of their body weight, weekly raise until you are feeding at least 5#/hd/day.
I also have Sept/Oct born calves. These are the males I feed out for freezer beef. They are sold at 12-13 months old weighing 1200-1250#.
Don't let the whole corn in their manure fool you. They utilize all but 8% COMPARED to cracked/flaked/roll corn. So, if you can buy WSC for less than an 8% difference, you are money ahead. And, calves prefer whole grains and they are healthier for them. You do not need pelleted feed or sweet feed. If you can find a farmer that will fill the back of your truck with dry shell corn, that's even better.

 

[50/50Farms]

Selling for beef or stockers? And this plan is what I had in mind for steers to be sold as beef. I understand the risks associated with weather and market prices (both pretty much unpredictable). At what age do you wean? I've seen suggestions ranging from 90 days to 6+ months. Mine are vaccinated for blackleg - steers get a ralgro implant.

I wouldn't wean any earlier than six months unless it was absolutely necessary. So, you are planning to feed the steers out for freezer beeves? Then why were you talking about folks sending yearlings through the sale barn? I think we missed something along the way here.

 

[gman4691]

If your "calves" were 500-600# at a year old - you need to get a better bull to put on your cows. You should be weaning 500-600# commercial average type calves at 7 months old. Put a pencil to the cost of a good bull.

Just got a new bull (Brangus) last October...the bull these calves came from was tested and had some problems. He wasn't shooting blanks but he wasn't shooting buckshot either. Haven't had this new bull long enough to have any calves from him.

 

[gman4691]

I wouldn't wean any earlier than six months unless it was absolutely necessary. So, you are planning to feed the steers out for freezer beeves? Then why were you talking about folks sending yearlings through the sale barn? I think we missed something along the way here.

Just anectdotal...know a man who runs about 300 head and his wife told me he usually sells steers at about 12 months. Have heard the same from others from time to time. I need to make a trip to sell barn and see who's paying how much and for what...that may clarify a few things. As I've said in other posts, my dad always handled this end of things...I was always just a labor hand and did what he told me to do. He died last May and my 83 year old mother and myself are trying to figure some of this stuff out. I'm no babe in woods when comes to caring for cattle...but the selling end of things has proven to have a bit of a learning curve. We don't mind throwing some inputs out there but don't want to shoot ourselves in the foot with it. Just trying to think through whether it would be worthwhile to set aside some steers next year (got mostly heifer calves this year) for a more intensive feeding program vs. what good it would do in terms of what we could expect at the sale barn (unpredictable factors duly noted).

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

The quality of his semen has NOTHING to do with the quality of his calves.
Feeding weaned calves for "pre-conditioning" is a good thing (maybe 45-60 days) and getting them all their vaccinations so you can sell them as pre-conditioned calves.

 

[50/50Farms]

Just anectdotal...know a man who runs about 300 head and his wife told me he usually sells steers at about 12 months.

I can almost certify that he has buyers lined up, not carting them to the sale barn.

 

[farmerjan]

We used to "trailer wean".... cows with calves moved to the barn to preg check the cows when the calves are in the 5-8 month range... early calving cows would have 6-8 month calves and the late calvers would be in the 5 month range... when cows were checked, the calves would get pulled and sold. Then we started keeping them and "backgrounding " the calves... weaning at the barn; again in the 5-7month range average.... 450-600 lb weights.... and keeping them the 30-60 days that the different programs required. We have also been buying some of the singles and small groups of 2-5 or so of BULL calves at the sales... which can be bought for cheaper than steers and singles and small groups often sell cheaper... and bringing home, working, and then incorporating into making larger groups of steers that are "value added" like @Ky hills said. Then we could control when we sold and watch the markets with a few more options....
Calves will continue to nurse a cow for a year if she lets it out on pasture. They are getting most of their nutrition from their grazing at that time. The reason for weaning at the 6-7 month range is often because of timing of grass growth, moving cattle to/from pastures, and the general market and value of cattle/calves in their area.
Here the 450-600 wt range is the highest price per lb on most calves, most of the time. It also works with many that run cow/calf pairs on pasture... calves born in Spring... grazed all summer.... then as they are moved to winter pastures, pregnancy checks, things like that, the calves are weaned off in the fall at the 5-7 month age and sold. Many don't have places to run calves separate from cows and it is just the better thing and easier for all to sell.... the cows get a rest (should have at least 2 months before calving again but often it is 4 months or so for ease of handling the cattle) so in say Nov/Dec.. they are moved to "winter quarters" and fed until calving starts again....
Until we had access to the farm our late friend owned, we did not have places to wean and hold and feed calves either... they came off the cow and went to town. Except for the few heifers we really wanted to retain and they would get put where ever we could put them and keep them away from the bull.
So, now we do mostly all backgrounding the newly weaned calves. We are in more control of when we sell rather than having to sell right off the cows. We can hit the better markets pricewise. We do not contract our calves because we don't have the numbers all at one time. We do groups in the 10-25 and can match bought ones, with our own calves.
My son has put a pencil to it and he says he had around 1.80/lb in the 540 lb avg calves that he grazed last year, figuring the cost of the calves, feed to background here before putting out, vaccs, wormer, pasture rent, mineral, trucking out and back, and paying the guy that watches over them because they are 4 hrs away.....and they weighed just under 785 after about 4 months on grass and sold at 1.62 ?... he said with the weight gain, he made about $300 a head....profit.... they also did not gain quite as good as the year before because the grass was actually "washy"... alot of rain out there and they were out there about 3-4 weeks less than the year before because they were going to start timber cutting and had to be out....
This year IF things stay stable like they are now... he should do as good or better looking at the futures prices ..... ALOT depends on it staying stable ... and that is of course a crap shoot...

So @gman4691 , I hope that I have given you a little of the reasoning that calves are sold here in the weights that they often are. EVERYONE does things a little differently... being in Tx you are dealing with different weather and grazing conditions than we are here... and a different breed/cross of cattle than we have up here in Va. Believe me, "eared cattle" of any type, get hurt terribly at the stockyard around here... and down your way something with some "ear" does better in your climate, heat and are much more common....

 

[Warren Allison]

about 12 months...not fed out...just allowed to feed with the rest of the cows with normal feeding in winter...grazing and occasional 20% cubes when the grass is growing enough for grazing. We've always sold as beef. It is my understanding, the heifer also sold as beef due to the demand being so high at the moment.

I dunno, something isn't right. I am weaning 500 lb Brangus steer calves and 450+ heifer calves off Corriente cows in 6 months. and they get ZERO feed, worming, vaccs, etc....just salt , minerals, and Kudzu forage. Very little good grass in the pastures. What little there is is mostly Johnson grass and Broome sag. If yours are pb Brangus they ought to be twice that size as yearlings. What are your pasture grasses? Do you lime and fertilize them?

 

[gman4691]

If your "calves" were 500-600# at a year old - you need to get a better bull to put on your cows. You should be weaning 500-600# commercial average type calves at 7 months old. Put a pencil to the cost of a good bull.
When people are saying "sell for beef" - they mean FINISH the animal to a grade of Choice and sell for freezer beef. Anything from 12 months to 18 months should be FINISHED on grain. Grass fed is longer - 18 months to 30 months - I do not like to eat grass fed - my preference. If I want grass fed, I take out some venison to eat.
You do not have to buy fancy feed. I have been raising cattle a long time. I sell breeding stock, show cattle, and I sell freezer beef. I prefer to get steers gone as soon as possible. My Jan/Feb born males are all gone by October. Weaned 1st week in September, put on whole shell corn with a protein pellet added and great hay. Start them at 1% of their body weight, weekly raise until you are feeding at least 5#/hd/day.
I also have Sept/Oct born calves. These are the males I feed out for freezer beef. They are sold at 12-13 months old weighing 1200-1250#.
Don't let the whole corn in their manure fool you. They utilize all but 8% COMPARED to cracked/flaked/roll corn. So, if you can buy WSC for less than an 8% difference, you are money ahead. And, calves prefer whole grains and they are healthier for them. You do not need pelleted feed or sweet feed. If you can find a farmer that will fill the back of your truck with dry shell corn, that's even better.

OK...let me clarify. I didn't mean "finished". I am assuming when they are purchased they are fed (finished) out on grain/corn or something similar before going to processing...never really followed up on what happens to them after the sale but it is my understanding that they are primarily used for beef. If there are heifers in the mix, I will either sell them all or select some to eventually replace cows that have either gotten old or for some other reason. Spent the last year and a half on a kind of selective culling, a number of cows had gone completely wild over the past few years and resisted "re-domestication" - a few could be downright dangerous. The ones I've kept are good cows with a couple of slightly wild exceptions...not completely crazy but not exactly tame either. None of them would be considered "pets". Sometimes as few as 20 cows but seldom more than 40.

The previous bull was a bit smallish in my estimation as compared to many of the cows. The new one is a bit taller and "beefier-looking" (good muscle tone, stronger frame, etc.) purchased from a proven dealer in brangus bulls who lives about 2 miles down the road (just get out of the truck and pick one out - papers provided)...looking forward to see what he produces. Most of the cattle are black owing to having brangus for quite a number of years although there are some with who knows what in them. Over the past 58+ years, there have been polled herefords, brahama bulls, I seem to remember a beefmaster back in the day, and brangus for more than 20 years. May have been something else when I lived "away". But most are good mama cows and bear good calves for the most part. They have good grazing (well maintained pastures), good hay (we have our own baled), and when needed 20% range cubes. Wormed twice a year & vaccinated for blackleg. Supplemental vitamin injection or antibiotic, if needed. They've remained pretty healthy for a number of years.

The steers have historically been allowed to just run with the cows until sale. My thinking was feeding some steers (hopefully in next year's crop) about 60-90 days before the sale (at either 6-9 months, 12-15 months, or 15-18 months). I was thinking feeding creep feed with something grain based from time to time (horse & mule feed). Just don't know what I should expect in terms of weight. I've heard some say 18 months is waiting too long. I've heard some say I should sell at 6-8 months. The steers are the primary "source of income"...we don't do this for a living, just to supplement. At the same time, we aren't a "hobby farm" but we aren't a big outfit like some on here. 110 acres with anywhere from 20-40 cows at any given time - weather is a big factor there due to availability of grazing and how much hay I have on hand. We can comfortably graze that many on an average year.

 

[gman4691]

I've only heard of people wanting to sell in the 6to8 month old range. Unless they're raising freezer beef, or fat cattle. What kind of cows only weigh 500-600 at a year old? Or is it a regional thing, not trying to be a smart *** just curious.

Cows are mostly brangus...but then the last bull seemed a bit smallish in my estimation. After having him tested, we foundhe wasn't "shooting blanks" but wasn't exactly "shooting buckshot" either. Sold him and bought one that seemed a better fit given our cows. Haven't had him long enough to see what he will turn out in the way of calves. The 10 heifers and 1 bull we got this year were from the old bull...they are still a bit young for me to know which ones I will sell and which ones I will keep.

 

[50/50Farms]

I think there's too many angles on the wheel being reinvented here.

 

[gman4691]

I dunno, something isn't right. I am weaning 500 lb Brangus steer calves and 450+ heifer calves off Corriente cows in 6 months. and they get ZERO feed, worming, vaccs, etc....just salt , minerals, and Kudzu forage. Very little good grass in the pastures. What little there is is mostly Johnson grass and Broome sag. If yours are pb Brangus they ought to be twice that size as yearlings. What are your pasture grasses? Do you lime and fertilize them?

The last bull seemed a bit smallish in my estimation. After having him tested, we found he wasn't "shooting blanks" but wasn't exactly "shooting buckshot" either. However, he did turn out some quality calves last year...just not many (4 bulls and 2 heifers out of about 20 cows). This year was better numberswise - 10 heifers and 1 bull - too young to see how they will be at least to my eyes. Sold him and bought one that seemed a better fit given our cows. Haven't had him long enough to see what he will turn out in the way of calves. The 10 heifers and 1 bull we got this year were from the old bull...they are still a bit young for me to know which ones I will sell and which ones I will keep.

Pastures are primarily coastal/common bermuda. Lime isn't needed on my place but chicken litter is used periodically as a fertilizer. Soil nutrients are good. I treat the hayfields for broadleaf weeds and johnson grass (worked great last year). All I've used so far on grazing pastures is Grazon P+D - also worked great last year. Last year's hay was beautiful bermuda grass hay and the cows stayed fat and happy on that and cubes this past winter. Additionally, both white & brown salt/mineral blocks are put out with the occasional safe-guard deworming block (or 2). Cows get injection worming in the fall and pour-on wormer in spring. They have remained fat and healthy, so far.

 

[gman4691]

The outfit running their own calves and also stockers feeds the stockers, as does everyone as far as I know. As far as feeding pasture calves? No offense but why hell no, at six months old they're still dragging on the test in addition to foraging. Unless you have a market for 20 animals fed out for freezer beef, you're gonna get a bunch of holes punched in the bottom of your pocket if you pull calves off of mama and feed them until 12 months. There's a reason most people sell at 6-8 months. Now, if you want to pull them and background them for a spell, there's some people on here who have good luck with that, @Ky hills I believe does that.


I don't personally see it passing the pencil test where you are unless you have a good source of feed in bulk, walk-in feed store prices kill folks, even range cubes were $14 a bag when I last bought some there. But if you can make that work and that's what you want to do, it will beat the pants off of keeping them for a year unless you want to sell replacements.

We would be "backgrounding"...haven't heard many folks use that term but reading Ky Hills' comments, that sounds more like what we're doing. Would just like to see more weight coming from the backgrounding. KH had some comments of feeding and finishing - we aren't "finishing" ours.

 

[gman4691]

The quality of his semen has NOTHING to do with the quality of his calves.
Feeding weaned calves for "pre-conditioning" is a good thing (maybe 45-60 days) and getting them all their vaccinations so you can sell them as pre-conditioned calves.

Agreed...the old bull did turn out some nice calves...just lean in numbers last year - only 6 calves out of about 20 cows. This year's bunch also came from him - 11 calves out of about 18 cows - to early to tell how they will turn out - will probably sell some and keep some. Won't see any calves from the new bull for a while yet.