50/50Farms
Well-known member
How old are these cows?
Calf prices
- Thread starter kenny thomas
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Well , it is definitely not lack of nutrition. And a bull shooting blanks won't make the calves small. There is something else going on here with the genetics. Are you sure these calves were 12 mos old? How tall was that bull?: How much did he weigh? How big are your Brangus cows? How much do they weigh? Did that bull either have horns or had been de-horned? Maybe it was black mini-Zebu/Dexter cross? Even then, bred to a 1500 lb Brangus cow, the calf at 12 mos old ought to weigh more than 500-600 lbs.
H
Ha! Lots of replies...my poor old brain is having a hard time keeping up with them all. However, I have managed to glean quite a bit. For instance, when I say "feed out", I think some may have read that as "finishing" which we do not do. And when I say "sold for beef", I think some may also read that as "finished". My layman's terms have probably been more of a hindrance than a help. If that's the case, I apologize. Several people on here have tossed out some good info (Ky Hills, Allison, KT, yourself and others). I do appreciate the input from so many different perspectives though. I was a science major in college (geology) so comments coming from different perspectives and different operations are very much appreciated - the more data the better. I'm sure I will eventually figure out the selling end of things...may make a few mistakes along the way but I'm confident I can keep any adverse impacts to a minimum...I hope. May not be a bonafide cattleman like so many on here but I do know how to deal with numbers (statistics minor). Some will be trial and error and some will be tried and true...I'll just have to sort out which is which for our operation. I would however like to increase the weight before sale. Perhaps when I decide which heifers to keep, I'll try "backgrounding" a few that will be sold and see what happens. I know comparing heifers to steers is comparing apples to oranges but I may get a ballpark idea of what backgrounding may or may not accomplish. But heifers are what I have to work with this year...and little lonesome steer. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
I agree...it would be hard to believe it was a nutritional thing. My only problem with the previous bull was in numbers (only 6 calves last year)...the steers that came from him were very good...there just weren't many babies last year compared to this year. The ones I sold couldn't have been less than 10 months - born last spring...I believe most were a little older. That bull was probably around 4.5 feet tall (maybe less - just guessing) measured from spine to ground as I recall. Don't remember the weight...will have to find those papers from last year. The cows are pretty tall for the most part (many were 4"-6" taller than the bull) and probably 1200 - 1500 pounds - possibly more...a couple look like they have some hereford somewhere in the wood pile - one of them is probably the tallest - she's TALL - I had a hard time seeing how she could be bred by the old bull but she has a calf this year...seemed to me it would take a great deal of cooperation. Bull never had horns. Wasn't around when my dad bought him...wouldn't know a mini-zebu/dexter cross if one got in the shower with me. All that being said, I still think he looked a bit smallish to me when compared to many of the cows...at least in height. Looking at them all together, he was one of the shortest out there...not looking like a midget, mind you...but the height difference was noticeable even to the untrained eye. His build was better than average as for as shoulders, neck, head, and rear end are concerned.
Crap...I knew someone would ask this question. I can't be sure but they look to be 4 or 5(?) None of them first timers but none of them old timers either with one possible exception...but she had a nice little heifer this year...her and one other look like they may be getting a little long in the tooth but still producing good calves. The rest look pretty good so I think the 4 or 5 year estimate can't be too far off. These were my dad's cows and I have lived too far away to get here on a regular basis...just moved back in August 2021. He wasn't big on keeping cows until they were really old. Don't know what his criteria was for making that determination other just being out here all the time and knowing which cows had been around and for how long. These however look too good to be getting too old. And I have one yearling heifer kept from last year...and some of this year's will probably be kept as well. It will take a while for them to get up to speed, as it were.
That 4.5 feet height may be a little on the high side.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
I know you have what you have to deal with now. And you are being smart trying to increase the income from what you have.
But. EVERY cow 2 years old and older should have a calf EVERY YEAR. You may have had none than an infertile bull....you may have infertile COWS. The best and only way to make money in the beef bs is to get a live calf on the ground out of every cow. You made it sound like it isn't the greatest, but it's what it is. Oh well.
6 and 11 calves out of how many cows?
Do you have records of which. Iws had the 6 last year? Did those 6 plus 5 more have calves this year?
But. EVERY cow 2 years old and older should have a calf EVERY YEAR. You may have had none than an infertile bull....you may have infertile COWS. The best and only way to make money in the beef bs is to get a live calf on the ground out of every cow. You made it sound like it isn't the greatest, but it's what it is. Oh well.
6 and 11 calves out of how many cows?
Do you have records of which. Iws had the 6 last year? Did those 6 plus 5 more have calves this year?
50/50Farms
Well-known member
This is what I was driving at.
Unable to match up last year's calves with mothers at this point...a couple of them I know for sure (cow with #1 ear tag had a beautiful calf that grew into a beautiful steer - almost kept him just to look at him). As for this year's 11, I can pretty much narrow them down to who belongs to whom due to the fact that we got moved out here Fall 2021. Couldn't really keep up with it in 2021 as my mother and I were spending almost all of our time taking care of my father who was already bedridden by that time including Spring of 2022 when they were born. But have a pretty good grasp on this year's crop. Last year, 6 calves out of 20 cows. This year, 11 calves out of 18. I know of two cows that are "on the chopping block" - 1 due to age and the other just overall doesn't look like that great of a cow...don't know if she calved in the past but she didn't last year or this year. The older one did have a nice little heifer calf this year that I will probably keep but the mother will be sold...probably this fall. Found dad's records dating back to 1969(!) but nothing for the last 5 years or so. And I believe (but cannot verify) that it was the same 6 + 5 more this year. And there may still be a couple of "late surprises"...a couple of the cows look very suspect...like they might domino any day now.
I'm hoping next year will tell the story on the new bull. Will have to see if the ones who calved this year will calve next year.
50/50Farms
Well-known member
So wait, were we talking about what age to ship your calves or are you buying stockers as well?
MurraysMutts
Well-known member
@gman4691
I think your trying to do too many things at once, like I was when I first started.
Most "cow/calf" operations sell calves at 5 to 8 months.
Those calves sell to a "backgrounder" or "stocker" to run on grass usually. Sometimes wheat or oat pasture depending on time of year.
They grow em out to "feedlot" size and most times sell to feedlots or at auction to someone who is buying for a feedlot.
Doing all three of those things before you sell requires a LOT of inputs and land!!
Pick one thing and do it well!
I think your trying to do too many things at once, like I was when I first started.
Most "cow/calf" operations sell calves at 5 to 8 months.
Those calves sell to a "backgrounder" or "stocker" to run on grass usually. Sometimes wheat or oat pasture depending on time of year.
They grow em out to "feedlot" size and most times sell to feedlots or at auction to someone who is buying for a feedlot.
Doing all three of those things before you sell requires a LOT of inputs and land!!
Pick one thing and do it well!
I was talking about "backgrounding" some steers to sell and what age should the "backgrounding" begin? If feeding (not finishing) for 3 months, what would be best - 6-9 months, 9-12 months, 12-15 months? These would probably be purchased by a feedlot.
Understood...I would call what we do "backgrounding". They are probably purchased by feedlots at auction. Pastures are in good shape and more than enough for the number of cows we have. Was just looking at feeding steers to be sold (creep feed with a bit of horse & mule feed here and there) for about three months before selling. And wondering if it would make much difference in weight compared to just letting them run with the rest of the cows until sale time. It is understood that prices are virtually unpredictable - somebody can sneeze wrong and the price can change overnight - just trying to control what variables I can in the hopes of getting a better check when it's all said and done. We have our own hay baled and have adequate grazing. Some of the inputs you mentioned are already taken care of in terms of grazing & hay pastures...I'm going to claim a victory on that front for last year. It wouldn't be any big step to separate out the steers about 2-3 months before selling and feed them something more than they would get just running with the cows. The ones I just sold just ran with the cows until last week and brought a good price but listening to what some folks are saying, their weight seemed a bit low given their age. I wonder if giving them a bit extra a little bit before the sale would make much difference in weight, and hopefully price. I've also kind of messed up a fair comparison because if I have a good many bull calves next year, they will be from a different bull so their growth rate could very well be different.
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The day you wean them at 6 mos.
50/50Farms
Well-known member
Well, you're cow-calf first off. You are calving out of a brood herd that you keep year to year. You can background your own calves before sale, but when we specifically reference backgrounders we're often referencing people who buy calves specifically to background them for resale. They're easy to spot at the sale barn, they're going to have a weight and price range they usually do most of their buying in. Some are also contracted as order buyers, but that depends a ton on where you are, and some of them are straight up buyers for bigger outfits (talk about a fun day job).
I would get your fertility and birth rates under control before you try to do anything else, and get a bearing on what your 6-7 month weaning weights are and try and get an idea of what it took you to get there. First thing's first: something in your setup needs to take a ride, whether it's the bull or a few cows, and there's your opportunity to sit at the sale barn like you wanted.
I'm with you there. The "new" bull is already here and I have yet to see how he performs - only had him for 6 months. And 2 or 3 cows are on the table as far as being sold - but two of them have baby calves at the moment and I plan on keeping both of those heifers. The third just doesn't look like anything to write home about so she is on the table as well - she didn't calf this year or last year so she's on the way out.
The way the backgrounders are being described (basically prepping the cows for feedlots) sounds a lot like how we've always operated if not in an "official" way. Or at least I assume feedlots are buying the steers (and some heifers) as they are not "finished" when we sell them.
I think the fertility and birth rates may be easier to get ahold of over this year and next spring - our cows always calve in the spring. I know which ones calved this year and am fairly certain about some from last year (I know who that big pretty steer's mother was at least). And, indeed, some are going to take a ride - later this year and I just may sit in on a sale or 3...for educational purposes if nothing else.
50/50Farms
Well-known member
There's several different ways it gets done, and it can change dramatically if you drive 100 miles either way, and one person's definition of what they're doing will almost always vary from the next. How long have y'all been keeping them before sale and at what weight do they sell?
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Cows need a rest period. Calves are usually weaned completely off the cow between 6 to 8 months. Same with heifer calves. And the heifers should not be allowed with cows until they are bred or, in the case of using 1 bull, with the herd for breeding.
These last ones (sold last week) were 10-12 months...steers weighed 530 lbs. to 670 lbs; heifer weighed 505 lbs. I'm thinking dad usually sold at about 12 months (may be wrong). This is the first batch I've sold since he died (May 2022). He didn't supplement them with anything other than what the rest of the cows were fed. The batch before that, as I recall, were somewhat younger, maybe 6-8 months(?)...I know they were a bit smaller. But have talked to several people who seem to favor the 12 months. At least until I asked on here. Some say 6-8 months, some say longer. I think Warren Allison suggested weaning at 6 months and feeding for about 3 months (not finishing) then sell. I believe it was Warren...hard to keep all of these resonses straight - ha!
50/50Farms
Well-known member
What kind of bull was this last light bunch out of?
