Bull Sale: Quality

[NEFarmwife]

We saw weaning weights a lot lighter this past year than in previous. While we had a lot of rain and the grass was lush, it was washy. Something a creep could have fixed.

Our averages though were still decent. Everyone in these parts, suffered the same... except those who aren't honest.

 

[CreekAngus]

Weight does matter, those of us raising seed stock are showcasing performance. How we choose to develop that performance differs. I do creep feed, but not free choice, but I don't have any issue with someone who does fill up the creep feeder and let them have at it. My boys have got to show the ability to grow, hoping those genes get passed to their progeny. If pounds don't matter then why is "Midland" so dang popular? Pounds matter to the commercial guy, the buyer at the sale barn, the guy retaining ownership all the way to the rail, the feed lot and the packing plant.

Where do you deal with brood cow efficiency? Do you want 2000 pound brood cows? The AAA is trying to fix the long term chase for terminal traits right now. They have publicly admitted their short sightedness. Any efficiency plan of a cow calf producer is started with minimizing feed costs as the #1 cost of anybody who tries to raise cattle or most livestock. The people who will net the most will have the most relative size brood cow for their environment, on the average, and the most fertile females. Convenience traits make it easier as extra considerations and decrease labor such as proper feet and hooves, adequate udders and teats, mothering ability and such. You, as an individual, can add in other things that you like or need in your environment such as longevity, calf vigor, color and such. But the cow herd's efficiency is every one's business foundation and then you can choose to use a terminal bull(s) to get bigger sale animals or not.

Midlands is popular when so many performance tests across the US have ceased. I do not know the real answer but it is a place to find a bull that has not been pampered at "home", has a lack of true contemporaries (from the same source of birth and management until taken to Midlands) but the individuals are proven on feet and legs in lots, health, vigor, carcass and growth. Would you call these traits maternal or terminal?

I deal with the maternal on the side, we're supposed to deal with it, on the maternal, my cows. I don't have 2000lb cattle, mine sit right around 1600 and yeah, our environment isn't your environment. I live in an area where cows get fed 9 months out of the year, the only time we really have grass is the spring, but it's so abundant making feed is easy. I'm one of the few that manages pastures, I put in a fall pasture of oats and peas. If I was raising seed stock on the east side of this state for range land cowboys, my inputs would change some, but not a lot. I strongly believe in the seed stock world we need to be able to show the buyer the potential they are purchasing. If a guy don't want my 800lbs at weaning bull, that's fine, there's a bunch of low rent bulls that just went through a sale who scaled at 950lbs at 14 months old. Buy them. Since we feed in this environment, I want to show what my guys and gals do on feed. Like I stated, we don't free choice, even though most cattle in my area are fed that way. Most folks dump a round bale in the feeder and let them have at it. Only time I do free choice for cattle is if we are really cold or late summer (spring calve). I also live in an area where retaining ownership is rare, most heifers and steers (if they even make that effort) are weaned at the sale barn.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Here is what we put on our pastures in spring, as long as we don't crowd too many cattle in, they can stay pretty thick all summer long and into the fall. It's not cheap at $109 per 50lb bag, but when you consider what you get out of it in forage, it looks like a bargain.

[image]270[/image]

We also seed Ladino in areas not used for hay.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Weight does matter, those of us raising seed stock are showcasing performance. How we choose to develop that performance differs. I do creep feed, but not free choice, but I don't have any issue with someone who does fill up the creep feeder and let them have at it. My boys have got to show the ability to grow, hoping those genes get passed to their progeny. If pounds don't matter then why is "Midland" so dang popular? Pounds matter to the commercial guy, the buyer at the sale barn, the guy retaining ownership all the way to the rail, the feed lot and the packing plant.

Where do you deal with brood cow efficiency? Do you want 2000 pound brood cows? The AAA is trying to fix the long term chase for terminal traits right now. They have publicly admitted their short sightedness. Any efficiency plan of a cow calf producer is started with minimizing feed costs as the #1 cost of anybody who tries to raise cattle or most livestock. The people who will net the most will have the most relative size brood cow for their environment, on the average, and the most fertile females. Convenience traits make it easier as extra considerations and decrease labor such as proper feet and hooves, adequate udders and teats, mothering ability and such. You, as an individual, can add in other things that you like or need in your environment such as longevity, calf vigor, color and such. But the cow herd's efficiency is every one's business foundation and then you can choose to use a terminal bull(s) to get bigger sale animals or not.

Midlands is popular when so many performance tests across the US have ceased. I do not know the real answer but it is a place to find a bull that has not been pampered at "home", has a lack of true contemporaries (from the same source of birth and management until taken to Midlands) but the individuals are proven on feet and legs in lots, health, vigor, carcass and growth. Would you call these traits maternal or terminal?

I deal with the maternal on the side, we're supposed to deal with it, on the maternal, my cows. I don't have 2000lb cattle, mine sit right around 1600 and yeah, our environment isn't your environment. I live in an area where cows get fed 9 months out of the year, the only time we really have grass is the spring, but it's so abundant making feed is easy. I'm one of the few that manages pastures, I put in a fall pasture of oats and peas. If I was raising seed stock on the east side of this state for range land cowboys, my inputs would change some, but not a lot. I strongly believe in the seed stock world we need to be able to show the buyer the potential they are purchasing. If a guy don't want my 800lbs at weaning bull, that's fine, there's a bunch of low rent bulls that just went through a sale who scaled at 950lbs at 14 months old. Buy them. Since we feed in this environment, I want to show what my guys and gals do on feed. Like I stated, we don't free choice, even though most cattle in my area are fed that way. Most folks dump a round bale in the feeder and let them have at it. Only time I do free choice for cattle is if we are really cold or late summer (spring calve). I also live in an area where retaining ownership is rare, most heifers and steers (if they even make that effort) are weaned at the sale barn.

Here is one of our Unmistakable bulls, he is 18 months old, and is fairly typical of what we put out here, we have better, but he is not from AI.

http://bit.ly/2Kg2DOF

 

[True Grit Farms]

Here is what we put on our pastures in spring, as long as we don't crowd too many cattle in, they can stay pretty thick all summer long and into the fall. It's not cheap at $109 per 50lb bag, but when you consider what you get out of it in forage, it looks like a bargain.

[image]270[/image]

We also seed Ladino in areas not used for hay.

Exactly zero of that seed blend will grow here from June through October. At $109 for a bag of seed and then the fertilizer to make it produce sounds like it could get costly. I'm sure our cattle would gain an additional 20% on a mixture like that.

 

[CreekAngus]

Here is what we put on our pastures in spring, as long as we don't crowd too many cattle in, they can stay pretty thick all summer long and into the fall. It's not cheap at $109 per 50lb bag, but when you consider what you get out of it in forage, it looks like a bargain.

[image]270[/image]

We also seed Ladino in areas not used for hay.

Exactly zero of that seed blend will grow here from June through October. At $109 for a bag of seed and then the fertilizer to make it produce sounds like it could get costly. I'm sure our cattle would gain an additional 20% on a mixture like that.

And exactly, we all have different environments. That seed blend would grow phenomenally well here, from April to July 5th and then go dormant till the next year, but we could pound that up into hay in June at 3 tons to the acre.

 

[Dave]

I also live in an area where retaining ownership is rare, most heifers and steers (if they even make that effort) are weaned at the sale barn.

And that is exactly why I bought bulls from those guys down on the Willapa. They have been retaining ownership for 30+ years. That is the main stay of their business. Their cattle work for them all the way to the packers. Every year they hold back 24 bulls out of about 200 bull calves. They don't have birth weights, pedigrees, EPD's, or papers. Some are AI sired and they will sure tell you which ones they are. But they have better records than most registered breeders. They can tell you who the sire and dam are and how their other calves preformed at the feedlot and how they graded at the packers. And they are absolutely up front honest people to deal with.

 

[Draper]

Depending on how they'd been feed, a 900lb yearling weight could be substantial. Your daughters show heifer likely had more feed first 6 months, than most bulls do their entire life.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Easy to get 700+ WW when you wean at 9 months, and "adjust" for 205.

 

[Silver]

Easy to get 700+ WW when you wean at 9 months, and "adjust" for 205.

Only someone trying to fudge the numbers would pull a stunt like that.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Easy to get 700+ WW when you wean at 9 months, and "adjust" for 205.

Only someone trying to fudge the numbers would pull a stunt like that.

Your right, it probably never happens.



:lol:

 

[Draper]

Typically done the opposite way. That is, take the 'weaning weight' at the earliest allowable date and extrapolate that adg on out to 205

 

[sim.-ang.king]

That works too, having your foot on the scale also helps.

 

[Nesikep]

The way I feed, I am pretty happy when my average weaning weight is in the 600's at an average of about 200 days... that said, I wouldn't buy a bull with a below average growth rate. The one I'm keeping this year I'm expecting to be about 700 lbs on grass and milk alone.. the one I am looking at buying did get a little bit of creep and they really manage pastures well, his weaning weight is 926 (205 day adjusted is 854, and best of his group)

Sim Ang King, I don't weigh enough to make much difference putting a foot on the scale!

 

[CattleMan1920]

The way I feed, I am pretty happy when my average weaning weight is in the 600's at an average of about 200 days... that said, I wouldn't buy a bull with a below average growth rate. The one I'm keeping this year I'm expecting to be about 700 lbs on grass and milk alone.. the one I am looking at buying did get a little bit of creep and they really manage pastures well, his weaning weight is 926 (205 day adjusted is 854, and best of his group)

Sim Ang King, I don't weigh enough to make much difference putting a foot on the scale!

Putting your foot on the scale is like wearing clothes that are too tight and expecting people to think you are fit, you aren't fooling anyone.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

The way I feed, I am pretty happy when my average weaning weight is in the 600's at an average of about 200 days... that said, I wouldn't buy a bull with a below average growth rate. The one I'm keeping this year I'm expecting to be about 700 lbs on grass and milk alone.. the one I am looking at buying did get a little bit of creep and they really manage pastures well, his weaning weight is 926 (205 day adjusted is 854, and best of his group)

Sim Ang King, I don't weigh enough to make much difference putting a foot on the scale!

Me neither, but I'm looking for a big boned woman to help my weaning weights.


:lol:

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Been watching a little bull sale in Nebraska today. They seem to be having a good day. I am a thinking they will have a sale average of $6000.00

 

[Nesikep]

The way I feed, I am pretty happy when my average weaning weight is in the 600's at an average of about 200 days... that said, I wouldn't buy a bull with a below average growth rate. The one I'm keeping this year I'm expecting to be about 700 lbs on grass and milk alone.. the one I am looking at buying did get a little bit of creep and they really manage pastures well, his weaning weight is 926 (205 day adjusted is 854, and best of his group)

Sim Ang King, I don't weigh enough to make much difference putting a foot on the scale!

Me neither, but I'm looking for a big boned woman to help my weaning weights.


:lol:

They all say they're just big boned

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

Been watching a little bull sale in Nebraska today. They seem to be having a good day. I am a thinking they will have a sale average of $6000.00

RBB, I highly suspect we are watching the same "little sale". I'm very curious to see how the postponement affects the sale. It was always a highlight to head to Morris each spring to buy....can't say I would now even if it was still in Morris though... :hide:

 

[CreekAngus]

Depending on how they'd been feed, a 900lb yearling weight could be substantial. Your daughters show heifer likely had more feed first 6 months, than most bulls do their entire life.

Yes she did, heifer didn't come out of our herd. The guy we bought her from runs 8 to 9 frame cattle, makes a run at Hoff cattle. We will be looking to down size progeny, should be a good fit for Branded's ever infamous President. We pulled off the throttle, her yearling was 1064, I didn't want to have feet or fertility issues.