Building that perfect cow

[elkwc]

The feeders I know know what works for them. They know what feeds the best and what makes the most dollars so pay accordingly when buying. Each has a little different preference but most in this area follow the same lines. These thoughts are echoed by the feedlot managers I know and talk too. As a commercial breeder I try to raise what they prefer as that will likely determine how the calves we produce will sell.Most managers I talk to or hear prefer no more than 1/4 exotic in the cattle they buy.

Simi are pretty growthy, and supposed to marble better than most continentals... So where is the problem?

Yep. Never heard of Sim being the problem. Always get good prices on blacks or black blazes. The only problems I've had around here at the sale barn are trying to sell reds or Hereford crosses. Even too much white will get you docked if it resembles Hereford markings. Been raising and selling both for years. Always heard that Herefords didn't feed out as desired. Just my observations and what I've heard from feeders around here! Other areas didn't mind the red.

I have had very little to do with Simmentals since the early 80's myself. Although the blacks aren't pure Simmental or they wouldn't be black. When I started looking for females I looked for a few to try just to compare to our Angus and the other breeds we have. It seems no Simmental breeder wants to sell females. They want to sell you a bull. I personally was taught it is better to purchase a few females and see how a bloodline or breed will nick with your herd before risking a whole calf crop. So all I've been able to do is compare. A neighbor across the road has been using Simmi's for some time. Last fall we sold calves a week apart. The market was called steady. His Simmi crosses some with white faces brought over 20 dollars a hundred less than the Angus we sold. Quality was comparable. His may of had a little more muscling and weights were within ten pounds. In the last week saw some Simmi crosses selling in the same range of dockage. The PB Simmi breeder a mile from one of our pastures would like for me to try one of his bulls. I know his weaning weights on his PB Simmis isn't any better than mine. Again I make my decision from talking to my friends who are in the sale barn and feedlot business and my observations and experiences. I also read articles from feedlots managers, ect and watch online auctions when I can to see what the market is like elsewhere. It is interesting what you see docked in one area sells at the top elsewhere. That is why I hesitate to recommend a specific breed for an area where I don't know the market preferences. Nothing against Simmis(still remember the BW issues of the first) or any other breed. Each breed has it's own purpose and it's own followers. I try to raise what I like and what will sell at the top of the market here. Something that will perform from birth to the rail.

 

[Tbrake]

I was very pleased with my f1 baldy calves. Only thing, I had as many reds and I did black calves. Not that it is a huge deal, I just really like my black baldies. What Genex herford bull would you recomnend? I am not intrested in horned bulls. Is there any Hereford that will throw more black calves? Again, looking to make nice heifers

 

[Caustic Burno]

I was very pleased with my f1 baldy calves. Only thing, I had as many reds and I did black calves. Not that it is a huge deal, I just really like my black baldies. What Genex herford bull would you recomnend? I am not intrested in horned bulls. Is there any Hereford that will throw more black calves? Again, looking to make nice heifers

You will continue to have reds as long as all your cows are not homozygous black

 

[Muddy]

Here, a calf with too much Hereford influence (or too much Hereford markings), especially these Black Herefords are not popular with the feedlot buyers. Not lot of folks breeding their F1 black baldy cows back to a Hereford bull and many folks preferred the black Angus bull on black baldy cows.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Here, a calf with too much Hereford influence (or too much Hereford markings), especially these Black Herefords are not popular with the feedlot buyers. Not lot of folks breeding their F1 black baldy cows back to a Hereford bull and many folks preferred the black Angus bull on black baldy cows.

Bought some black featherneck calves at a discount, but the ones I had did not have a lot of growth.

 

[Tbrake]

Still undecided what to breed too. Now leaning towards just using a angus with making replacement heifers in mind. I have some right answer and chisum cows that are very good, but I love experimenting. Thinking about trying Resource, Bismarck. Tourqe. And also a simmental to compare calves. Any recommendations greatly appreciated

 

[holm25]

Tbrake I would recommend Sim or Simangus over pure Angus. Sim will add more flesh I think. Angus tend to have smaller butts which I dislike.

 

[cotton1]

TBrake- The "perfect cow" is definitely in the eye of the beholder as has been mentioned here. When I first read your original post I started thinking over the criteria you mentioned: good doing,fertile, etc. I also was thinking about the breeds you have tried and were thinking about trying. All I kept thinking is you were happy with your set of cattle from the way it sounds.

Have you ever considered that the best bull for you might be in your pasture already? (If you don't band your boy calf's that is).

If you take a look at the herd and find the mamas that are at the top of your herd for the criteria you have set you may be able to find a bull calf for your next bull. If you know what those cows are out of, you could consider buying a brother or half brother to those best cows keeping in mind they have done the best for you in your environment.

If your best cows were AI sired, I would suggest AI breeding the whole herd to one of those bulls as a option. Then your cover bull would not be as influential in next years crop and you may be able to obtain a very nice AI sired bull calf to keep back for next year.

Ive been working on my "perfect cow" for 9 years now. 08 is when we finished transitioning from commercial to registered. For a long time I didn't think I was ever going to be happy with my herd, but in the last few months some of my yearling heifers have made me happy. They are uniform and attractive and have performed well so far. Now they have to get bred, calf on their own and raise a good calf for me.It takes a lot of time to get where you want to be. A friend of mine reminds me of a saying he heard from another sometimes, something to this effect:" You don't get much cattle breeding done in a lifetime".

Anyway, you don't have to have registered cows to make your own herd sire. Many do it with commercial. You just need some good record keeping and a frame of mind that the best bull for you might not be one you buy, but one you raise.

What ever you decide, I hope it works well for you.

Cotton1

 

[Son of Butch]

Still undecided what to breed too. Now leaning towards just using a angus with making replacement heifers in mind. I have some right answer and chisum cows that are very good, but I love experimenting. Thinking about trying Resource, Bismarck. Tourqe. And also a simmental to compare calves. Any recommendations greatly appreciated

Nichols Manifest at Accelerated is a well proven balanced bull that should make some nice f1 females
https://accelgen.com/catalog/semen-beef ... ifest-t79/

or you could try Grandmaster or Uno Mas

because you like experimenting...
Hooks Beacon 56B reg# 2854180 is a black pb simmental young sire worth considering

 

[Nesikep]

" You don't get much cattle breeding done in a lifetime".

Cotton1

Never heard it that way bit it's so true.. 25 years for me took me from a pile of train wrecks to what I'd consider "acceptable"... I'd still say a good half of my cows have appearance deficits, but for the most part at least they do perform now..

 

[Tbrake]

Still undecided what to breed too. Now leaning towards just using a angus with making replacement heifers in mind. I have some right answer and chisum cows that are very good, but I love experimenting. Thinking about trying Resource, Bismarck. Tourqe. And also a simmental to compare calves. Any recommendations greatly appreciated

Nichols Manifest at Accelerated is a well proven balanced bull that should make some nice f1 females
https://accelgen.com/catalog/semen-beef ... ifest-t79/

or you could try Grandmaster or Uno Mas

because you like experimenting...
Hooks Beacon 56B reg# 2854180 is a black pb simmental young sire worth considering

Thank you. I really like the looks and numbers of uno mas. I will be breeding some too him.

I am only 21, so I hope I still have many years of breeding ahead of me. I'm still wondering, will the white face add any value to the calves? Coming from a semmi bull, not Hereford.

 

[Son of Butch]

will the white face add any value to the calves? Coming from a semmi bull, not Hereford.

No, but there are a lot of people that like the blaze faces... doesn't add performance, and doesn't add value.

Uno Mas has sexed semen available and his best value is in the females not the males if that makes any difference.
But sexed semen has lower conception than unaltered semen and usually only recommended for use on virgin heifers.

 

[SIMMGAL]

Tbrake I would recommend Sim or Simangus over pure Angus. Sim will add more flesh I think. Angus tend to have smaller butts which I dislike.

I agree! If you're looking at using Simmental I might be able to recommend a few! I'm using sexed heifer Uno Mas semen on all of my purebred heifers. CCR Wide Range (full brother to Santa Fe) is another one I'm using. I'll have those calves here in a few months so I can let you know how they do. He has a pretty good set of numbers, but he's a 3/4. If you're looking for purebred, there is a son of his out there-BCLR Wide Load. He's out of a High Roller cow, so there's real replacement potential there. 3/4 Sim on a purebred Sim will give you a purebred as far as the Sim association is concerned. The beauty of an open herdbook!

There are always the old standbys, Shear Force, Legacy, Grandmaster. There are plenty of good Sim bulls out there, no matter what part of it you're going for. I cold go on and on, but for the sake of time I'll stop!

This may sound odd, but some of my favorite cows have been out of Fortunate Son, look good and they milk. Their calves always look phenomenal. My Upgrades milk way better than his EPDs suggest and they raise some of my biggest calves. My Fatt Butt (Cut Above) cow and my In Dew Time cows are both way better milkers than their EPD's suggest as well. I have a Grandmaster cow that isn't much to look at, but her calves are always bellydraggers and she has a beautiful udder. I'm a bit picky on phenotype because of my show days! :lol2:


Best of luck to you!

 

[FlyingLSimmentals]

I'm wanting to try GW-WBF Substance 820Y a 3/4 Simmental. Didn't figure I care for him much when he first came out but the more progeny I see from him the more and more I am now wanting to use him if I AI any soon.

 

[Stocker Steve]

This may sound odd, but some of my favorite cows have been out of Fortunate Son, look good and they milk. Their calves always look phenomenal. My Upgrades milk way better than his EPDs suggest and they raise some of my biggest calves. My Fatt Butt (Cut Above) cow and my In Dew Time cows are both way better milkers than their EPD's suggest as well. Best of luck to you!

We use Genex, and I know In Due Time has died. Would you load up on his semen to make moderate simi angus cows, or are there younger Genex bulls you would focus on?

 

[SIMMGAL]

I'm wanting to try GW-WBF Substance 820Y a 3/4 Simmental. Didn't figure I care for him much when he first came out but the more progeny I see from him the more and more I am now wanting to use him if I AI any soon.

I was also wondering about Substance! Where are you finding progeny reports? I've been asking around and no one seems to have any yet! His numbers are pretty balanced and I've liked his looks.

 

[SIMMGAL]

This may sound odd, but some of my favorite cows have been out of Fortunate Son, look good and they milk. Their calves always look phenomenal. My Upgrades milk way better than his EPDs suggest and they raise some of my biggest calves. My Fatt Butt (Cut Above) cow and my In Dew Time cows are both way better milkers than their EPD's suggest as well. Best of luck to you!

We use Genex, and I know In Due Time has died. Would you load up on his semen to make moderate simi angus cows, or are there younger Genex bulls you would focus on?

There are younger Genex bulls to focus on if you're looking to make females/replacements and not show cattle. The MM number on In Dew Time worries me a bit, but I personally haven't ran into many issues. Had someone tell me that fertility was an issue but again, I haven't had any problems. She's always caught on the first AI service. I've kept all of her daughters and they're also impressive producers. Another thing to look at is the fact that he is calving ease. If you're looking to use him on mature cows, they could probably stand a bit more BW and performance. If you're looking to use him on heifers, then he'd be good. MM and growth are the only things keeping me from using the last few straws I have left.

As for other Genex bulls, I've heard great things about Ironhide, but he's a 1/2 blood. There's another Lock N Load son I believe Genex carries called Live Ammo and he would make purebred calves. If you're looking to make replacement females, High Roller has some pretty good looking daughters. There is a grandson of his on Genex named Wide Load. He's out of CCR Wide Range and an impressive High Roller daughter. Check out his support photos to see her. I'm sampling him on some of my cattle that need a bit of performance and milk. Looks like a pedigree for depth and performance to me! Upgrade is another one. I like my daughters out of him, and more importantly, their sons. I'd say he would make great bull-making females, mine have been thus far.

Interesting side note-Genex carries Steel Force now? WOW! When did that happen? Shows how closely I've been following their listing as of late! :dunce:

 

[FlyingLSimmentals]

Substance will soon turn 6 yrs. old his calves are out there. Have seen them in person at different sales, recently saw a few sons in a catalog that l thought were impressive. I can't remember what sale catalog it was. But they made me actually want to go to the sale to check them out at the time.

 

[Tbrake]

When you guys say uno mass bull calves don't do well, are you meaning they don't grow well? Or they are not good options for seed stock?

 

[Tbrake]

Tbrake I would recommend Sim or Simangus over pure Angus. Sim will add more flesh I think. Angus tend to have smaller butts which I dislike.

I agree! If you're looking at using Simmental I might be able to recommend a few! I'm using sexed heifer Uno Mas semen on all of my purebred heifers. CCR Wide Range (full brother to Santa Fe) is another one I'm using. I'll have those calves here in a few months so I can let you know how they do. He has a pretty good set of numbers, but he's a 3/4. If you're looking for purebred, there is a son of his out there-BCLR Wide Load. He's out of a High Roller cow, so there's real replacement potential there. 3/4 Sim on a purebred Sim will give you a purebred as far as the Sim association is concerned. The beauty of an open herdbook!

There are always the old standbys, Shear Force, Legacy, Grandmaster. There are plenty of good Sim bulls out there, no matter what part of it you're going for. I cold go on and on, but for the sake of time I'll stop!

This may sound odd, but some of my favorite cows have been out of Fortunate Son, look good and they milk. Their calves always look phenomenal. My Upgrades milk way better than his EPDs suggest and they raise some of my biggest calves. My Fatt Butt (Cut Above) cow and my In Dew Time cows are both way better milkers than their EPD's suggest as well. I have a Grandmaster cow that isn't much to look at, but her calves are always bellydraggers and she has a beautiful udder. I'm a bit picky on phenotype because of my show days! :lol2:


Best of luck to you!

I forgot all about it, I will be having some upgrade calves this year. Excited to see how they compare to the chisum calves. They will start calving in about a week. Look forward to this time every year, weather looks great