Breeding Brahman Crosses

[Brute 23]

There are a lot posts that come across here talking about breeding Brahman crosses to each other so I would like to share my experiences. I'm as big of a fan as any one of Brahman and Brahman crosses. We operate from around roughly and hour south of Houston to an hour off the Mexico border, a long the gulf coast, right through the Brahman belt.

I have gotten away from any composite bulls. Cows are either 100% Brahman, F1s, or 1/4 bloods being retained (for the most part). We do have some commercial cows that are not exactly that cross but will fall in to that range. Bulls are 100% Brahman, Hereford, and BA.

You can look through my posts and see the tiger stripe bull, 3/4 blood cows, etc.

I've done a decent amount of mixing from composites like Brangus, Braford, Beefmaster, and even putting a Brahman bull over commercial cows for 5/8-7/8 cows.

Imo, it throws too many variables in to your breeding. I found it very hard to achieve breeding goals like that. Even now, I did a couple day excursion looking at composites and every time I walked up to them I saw a trait or two that I am trying to breed out or don't want to go back to. When I did find a good one, it was way higher than what I could purchase a quality Hereford or Angus for. It made no sense.

99% of people do not need more than 50% ear. An F1 Braford is an amazing animal. It is truly a phenomenon from performance, to reproduction, parasites, temperament, etc.

We did make some great females with the Brangus or Braford but as a percentage of the herd it was low. We were bringing the unwanted bag, feet, skin, etc back in along with just an inconsistent look. Two calves with very close genetics would be on opposite ends of the spectrum as far as being clean vs navel and ear. That much variation that you can not control really kills production efficiency for both replacement and and terminal calves.

If I take a Braman cow, that may not be perfect, and breed her to a good hereford bull that F1 is pretty solid. If it's not, I know exactly when to go to stop the problem. When you do it again, let's say to a BA bull, and get a 1/4 baldie the odds are even less. Rarely do I see many issues at all in them. Then taking those offspring terminal... it has been cut again. A large group could/ should be running 1/4 ear cattle, IMO.

The main thing is in that chain I can pretty consistently control the change. We are producing more, quality replacements to choose from and our avg prices for terminal calves are up. In this area those F1s to BA bulls or 1/4s to BA bulls will ring the bell or be a nickle off. You can hit the peak end and not give up durability or longevity with those calves. In my experience, doing that with Brangus, Braford, Beefmaster, etc will be very tough. You will have to have the best of the best in those breeds to achieve that and it will require more than one pretty penny.

Every one has different goals for their operation. If you just want to breed what you like to see great, this doesn't apply. If you have breeding goals to sell replacements or at the auction barn consider it. Crossing those composites will hurt more than they will help, IMO.

 

[Brute 23]

Since I'm on a roll, there is never a reason for LH or Corriente in beef cattle. If you cant run composites or X cows just raise wildlife.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

Yours is a perfect illustration of why all coins are not the same denomination. Roll on!

 

[Ky hills]

I will agree that crossbred or composite bulls will throw a lot variables color, phenotype, etc. not the best way to maximize sale value when uniformity is generally the goal.
I will say though, that with a mixed herd of cows or even a purebred herd of cows with a variety of genetics within the breed will still yield in a range of phenotypes.
I'm talking from mainly the standpoint of British and Continental cattle, have only had a few Brahman influenced cattle. Yes with just those few I've noticed a range of look in those calves, even as they get farther removed from the Brahman influence.
We are currently using a 3/4 Angus 1/4 Hereford bull. Mainly because we had him already and he fit our needs as far as siring replacements. He does throw a range of colors depending on how the genes line up with the cows. His calves may be black or BWF, red or rwf. On occasion we get calves that look just like a pure Hereford or a black version of a Hereford.
We have also used a commercial black bull that throws all black calves, of course the ones from Hereford or BWF cows are varying degrees of BWF.

 

[Dave]

You need to breed for your environment and your market. Around here even a touch of ear will cost you serious money. So will longhorn or Corriente.
The people I bought bulls from for years have been retaining ownership for several decades. They have found that for them a 3/4 Angus 1/4 Simm works the best for them. They are on the Washington coast. And when I say the coast, at high tide you can throw a rock and hit salt water. But having the majority of the critters they send to the yard have that mix is a challenge. Their main herd is 1/2 and 1/2 cows bred to a pure Angus bull. Those calves result in the 3/4 - 1/4 they want. But they keep 2 separate herds of straight Angus. One is material genetic cows who get AI'ed to a material trait simm bull and cleaned up with the same. That is where they get their replacement heifers. The other Angus herd is all bred for growth and carcass. This is where they get their bulls. As a sideline they sell a couple dozen bulls a year. About half Angus and the other half is the top off their 3/4 - 1/4 herd. I used both over the years and had real good results either way.

 

[Brute 23]

This post was not really meant for cattle with out the Brahman influence. I get that comes with its own battles and some of it does cross over. My main point was to address the issue that most of us face, in the south, with having enough ear to prosper but not so much ear we take a beating at the auction barn.

 

[wbvs58]

Brute what you are saying we are seeing a lot of further north in our state of Queensland where having the Brahman influence is essential. The live cattle market to the Indonesian feedlots has backed off a lot in recent years due to prices, covid and Foot and Mouth disease, they like the 100% brahman. Now these producers are looking to market cattle to the feedlots so are buying up big on Black Angus genetics. They are still maintaining their pure Brahman herds but using the Angus as terminal. Ultrablack bulls are also popular giving the bull just that tad of ear to help it handle the conditions.

Ken

 

[alacowman1]

1/4 ear momas work great for me , in my area..

 

[MurraysMutts]

You know I like a flick of ear and leather.

I've got ONE mutt cow that had 2 calves out of my mutt brangus. I'm excited to see how she matches up with her full sister! So far they seem very similar. I have lots of pics ya know..

Keep on truckin!

 

[Brute 23]

1/4 ear momas work great for me , in my area..

They are probably my favorite too.

If we take an F1 and breed it back Hereford again, those red motts are pretty shiny.

That's what this one is. This girl is pretty much the perfect cow for me. She is 3/4 Hereford 1/4 Brahman. This pic is her as a young heifer. She was just introduced to a bull a month or two ago. She holds up and is easy to handle. When you put a BA bull over her the calf will sell good.

 

[crossbreed]

There are a lot posts that come across here talking about breeding Brahman crosses to each other so I would like to share my experiences. I'm as big of a fan as any one of Brahman and Brahman crosses. We operate from around roughly and hour south of Houston to an hour off the Mexico border, a long the gulf coast, right through the Brahman belt.

I have gotten away from any composite bulls. Cows are either 100% Brahman, F1s, or 1/4 bloods being retained (for the most part). We do have some commercial cows that are not exactly that cross but will fall in to that range. Bulls are 100% Brahman, Hereford, and BA.

You can look through my posts and see the tiger stripe bull, 3/4 blood cows, etc.

I've done a decent amount of mixing from composites like Brangus, Braford, Beefmaster, and even putting a Brahman bull over commercial cows for 5/8-7/8 cows.

Imo, it throws too many variables in to your breeding. I found it very hard to achieve breeding goals like that. Even now, I did a couple day excursion looking at composites and every time I walked up to them I saw a trait or two that I am trying to breed out or don't want to go back to. When I did find a good one, it was way higher than what I could purchase a quality Hereford or Angus for. It made no sense.

99% of people do not need more than 50% ear. An F1 Braford is an amazing animal. It is truly a phenomenon from performance, to reproduction, parasites, temperament, etc.

We did make some great females with the Brangus or Braford but as a percentage of the herd it was low. We were bringing the unwanted bag, feet, skin, etc back in along with just an inconsistent look. Two calves with very close genetics would be on opposite ends of the spectrum as far as being clean vs navel and ear. That much variation that you can not control really kills production efficiency for both replacement and and terminal calves.

If I take a Braman cow, that may not be perfect, and breed her to a good hereford bull that F1 is pretty solid. If it's not, I know exactly when to go to stop the problem. When you do it again, let's say to a BA bull, and get a 1/4 baldie the odds are even less. Rarely do I see many issues at all in them. Then taking those offspring terminal... it has been cut again. A large group could/ should be running 1/4 ear cattle, IMO.

The main thing is in that chain I can pretty consistently control the change. We are producing more, quality replacements to choose from and our avg prices for terminal calves are up. In this area those F1s to BA bulls or 1/4s to BA bulls will ring the bell or be a nickle off. You can hit the peak end and not give up durability or longevity with those calves. In my experience, doing that with Brangus, Braford, Beefmaster, etc will be very tough. You will have to have the best of the best in those breeds to achieve that and it will require more than one pretty penny.

Every one has different goals for their operation. If you just want to breed what you like to see great, this doesn't apply. If you have breeding goals to sell replacements or at the auction barn consider it. Crossing those composites will hurt more than they will help, IMO.

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is BA bull? Black angus?

 

[Brute 23]

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is BA bull? Black angus?

Yes. Just being lazy

 

[Charbrangus]

There are a lot posts that come across here talking about breeding Brahman crosses to each other so I would like to share my experiences. I'm as big of a fan as any one of Brahman and Brahman crosses. We operate from around roughly and hour south of Houston to an hour off the Mexico border, a long the gulf coast, right through the Brahman belt.

I have gotten away from any composite bulls. Cows are either 100% Brahman, F1s, or 1/4 bloods being retained (for the most part). We do have some commercial cows that are not exactly that cross but will fall in to that range. Bulls are 100% Brahman, Hereford, and BA.

You can look through my posts and see the tiger stripe bull, 3/4 blood cows, etc.

I've done a decent amount of mixing from composites like Brangus, Braford, Beefmaster, and even putting a Brahman bull over commercial cows for 5/8-7/8 cows.

Imo, it throws too many variables in to your breeding. I found it very hard to achieve breeding goals like that. Even now, I did a couple day excursion looking at composites and every time I walked up to them I saw a trait or two that I am trying to breed out or don't want to go back to. When I did find a good one, it was way higher than what I could purchase a quality Hereford or Angus for. It made no sense.

99% of people do not need more than 50% ear. An F1 Braford is an amazing animal. It is truly a phenomenon from performance, to reproduction, parasites, temperament, etc.

We did make some great females with the Brangus or Braford but as a percentage of the herd it was low. We were bringing the unwanted bag, feet, skin, etc back in along with just an inconsistent look. Two calves with very close genetics would be on opposite ends of the spectrum as far as being clean vs navel and ear. That much variation that you can not control really kills production efficiency for both replacement and and terminal calves.

If I take a Braman cow, that may not be perfect, and breed her to a good hereford bull that F1 is pretty solid. If it's not, I know exactly when to go to stop the problem. When you do it again, let's say to a BA bull, and get a 1/4 baldie the odds are even less. Rarely do I see many issues at all in them. Then taking those offspring terminal... it has been cut again. A large group could/ should be running 1/4 ear cattle, IMO.

The main thing is in that chain I can pretty consistently control the change. We are producing more, quality replacements to choose from and our avg prices for terminal calves are up. In this area those F1s to BA bulls or 1/4s to BA bulls will ring the bell or be a nickle off. You can hit the peak end and not give up durability or longevity with those calves. In my experience, doing that with Brangus, Braford, Beefmaster, etc will be very tough. You will have to have the best of the best in those breeds to achieve that and it will require more than one pretty penny.

Every one has different goals for their operation. If you just want to breed what you like to see great, this doesn't apply. If you have breeding goals to sell replacements or at the auction barn consider it. Crossing those composites will hurt more than they will help, IMO.

My bull is 1/2 Charolais and 1/2 Brangus. Most of my cows are either black baldie, brangus or angus. Through 4 calf crops I have been getting 99% black calves. If a calf was white or grey it would always be a heifer. This year, same bull, same cows I am getting 75% Grey and 25% black regardless of the sex. Back years ago when I was not a Pastor but a little on the wild side I raised Game Cocks. The school of thought then was that 85% of a hen's genetics came from the rooster and 85 of the rooster's genetics came from the hen. I thought that was pretty accurate until this year. I have no clue why the major change. I have gone from carrying black calves to the market to mostly white calves.

 

[crossbreed]

My bull is 1/2 Charolais and 1/2 Brangus. Most of my cows are either black baldie, brangus or angus. Through 4 calf crops I have been getting 99% black calves. If a calf was white or grey it would always be a heifer. This year, same bull, same cows I am getting 75% Grey and 25% black regardless of the sex. Back years ago when I was not a Pastor but a little on the wild side I raised Game Cocks. The school of thought then was that 85% of a hen's genetics came from the rooster and 85 of the rooster's genetics came from the hen. I thought that was pretty accurate until this year. I have no clue why the major change. I have gone from carrying black calves to the market to mostly white calves.

I've been leasing char bull to put on brangus cows. Good calves but never a black. Thinking about keeping one for a bull back on the brangus cows. Any thoughts on this mix? 3/4 brangus 1/4 char

 

[Warren Allison]

I've been leasing char bull to put on brangus cows. Good calves but never a black. Thinking about keeping one for a bull back on the brangus cows. Any thoughts on this mix? 3/4 brangus 1/4 char

You;d be way ahead of the game if you used a Hereford bull instead of a Charolais. The black baldies may weigh a pound or two less at weaning, but the premium paid on them will more than make up for that.

 

[Brute 23]

... and no rat tails.

 

[Caustic Burno]

This post was not really meant for cattle with out the Brahman influence. I get that comes with its own battles and some of it does cross over. My main point was to address the issue that most of us face, in the south, with having enough ear to prosper but not so much ear we take a beating at the auction barn.

I prefer Bradford to F-1 for consistency.
Char thrown in really mash the scales but you get a box of crayons on the trailer.
Bradford cow with an Angus bull will ring the bell all day.
It just works black baddie with hybrid vigor.

 

[crossbreed]

You;d be way ahead of the game if you used a Hereford bull instead of a Charolais. The black baldies may weigh a pound or two less at weaning, but the premium paid on them will more than make up for that.

Thanks for that, how would the Hereford cross with my char/brangus heifers? All either white or Smokey and great looking heifers. I've also got 3 full Brahma 2 year old that are ai'd to sexed Brahma. Will they cross well with Hereford?im maxed out on land so looking for the max profit and also docile as it's a one man (old) show

 

[crossbreed]

I prefer Bradford to F-1 for consistency.
Char thrown in really mash the scales but you get a box of crayons on the trailer.
Bradford cow with an Angus bull will ring the bell all day.
It just works black baddie with hybrid vigor.

Is there only one definition for F-1?

 

[Warren Allison]

Thanks for that, how would the Hereford cross with my char/brangus heifers? All either white or Smokey and great looking heifers. I've also got 3 full Brahma 2 year old that are ai'd to sexed Brahma. Will they cross well with Hereford? im maxed out on land so looking for the max profit and also docile as it's a one man (old) show

I don't know about that. In your post you said you had been leasing a Char bull to put on Brangus cows. Hereford would definitely be better in that scenario. As far as those smokies? You won't have any after you switch bulls. You will have black baldy heifers. And those 2 pb Brahmas would have the best selling, highest priced commercial replacement heifers there are. Brahma x Hereford is maybe the best Brahma cross there is as far as producing momma cows.