Breeding Brahman Crosses

[Caustic Burno]

Is there only one definition for F-1?

No it's the first cross between two purebreds.
In this part of the world an F-1 only has one definition.
It's a Bradford no other cross maximizes hybrid vigor more.
Well documented by several universities.

 

[Warren Allison]

Is there only one definition for F-1?

f1 is the first cross of 2 different breeds. Off spring from those f1s are f2s etc. The F1 that Caustic was referring to was a Brahma x Hereford. Breed one of those back to a Hereford, and you get an f2. Breed the f2 to an f1 and you get Braford..its own breed.. stable composite of 5/8ths Hereford and 3/8th Brahma.

 

[crossbreed]

I don't know about that. In your post you said you had been leasing a Char bull to put on Brangus cows. Hereford would definitely be better in that scenario. As far as those smokies? You won't have any after you switch bulls. You will have black baldy heifers. And those 2 pb Brahmas would have the best selling, highest priced commercial replacement heifers there are. Brahma x Hereford is maybe the best Brahma cross there is as far as producing momma cows.

Sorry I do have some heifers I had kept as replacement and they are the smokies. I may keep them but I am thinking the Hereford cross may help. The pb Brahma are great in the pasture, not so friendly in the pen. Thanks for your advice

 

[Caustic Burno]

Sorry I do have some heifers I had kept as replacement and they are the smokies. I may keep them but I am thinking the Hereford cross may help. The pb Brahma are great in the pasture, not so friendly in the pen. Thanks for your advice

Brahman aren't a problem in a pen, it's all about how you handle them. PB can't hold a candle to some Tigers I have culled due to being more athletic than deer and having a full set of teeth including canine.
I can lead mine anywhere and work them by myself no problem. They don't like strangers and they don't play cowboy. It's all in how you raise them. Most dangerous cows I have had in the pen is a Hereford when they loose it.
Head gate and chute can make all of them loose it if enough pressure is applied.
They know who owns them.

 

[Charbrangus]

I've been leasing char bull to put on brangus cows. Good calves but never a black. Thinking about keeping one for a bull back on the brangus cows. Any thoughts on this mix? 3/4 brangus 1/4 char

I love my 1/2 Char 1/2 Brangus bull. Calves wean at a heavier weight and the fact that their nose, and around their eyes are black with the grey calves I do get, the price is as good as the black calves in Fla. Fact is an angus cow may have a black calf one year and a grey one the next. They both grow the same and sale the same.

 

[crossbreed]

Brahman aren't a problem in a pen, it's all about how you handle them. PB can't hold a candle to some Tigers I have culled due to being more athletic than deer and having a full set of teeth including canine.
I can lead mine anywhere and work them by myself no problem. They don't like strangers and they don't play cowboy. It's all in how you raise them. Most dangerous cows I have had in the pen is a Hereford when they loose it.
Head gate and chute can make all of them loose it if enough pressure is applied.
They know who owns them.

I handle all my cows and calves slow and easy got the pen rigged so they sometimes go through the chute leaving the pen. Bought the 3 Brahma heifers as 18 months and ai'd them at 24 no. They were wild as deer when I got them but will follow me around and eat cubes from hand. In the pen though you better keep debtor gate between you and them. Like Jekyll and Hyde.

 

[crossbreed]

I love my 1/2 Char 1/2 Brangus bull. Calves wean at a heavier weight and the fact that their nose, and around their eyes are black with the grey calves I do get, the price is as good as the black calves in Fla. Fact is an angus cow may have a black calf one year and a grey one the next. They both grow the same and sale the same.

They do wean heavy, steers around 550-600 born Feb. black whiteface do look good though. Never had a Hereford, how is their temperment

 

[EasTex]

There are a lot posts that come across here talking about breeding Brahman crosses to each other so I would like to share my experiences. I'm as big of a fan as any one of Brahman and Brahman crosses. We operate from around roughly and hour south of Houston to an hour off the Mexico border, a long the gulf coast, right through the Brahman belt.

I have gotten away from any composite bulls. Cows are either 100% Brahman, F1s, or 1/4 bloods being retained (for the most part). We do have some commercial cows that are not exactly that cross but will fall in to that range. Bulls are 100% Brahman, Hereford, and BA.

You can look through my posts and see the tiger stripe bull, 3/4 blood cows, etc.

I've done a decent amount of mixing from composites like Brangus, Braford, Beefmaster, and even putting a Brahman bull over commercial cows for 5/8-7/8 cows.

Imo, it throws too many variables in to your breeding. I found it very hard to achieve breeding goals like that. Even now, I did a couple day excursion looking at composites and every time I walked up to them I saw a trait or two that I am trying to breed out or don't want to go back to. When I did find a good one, it was way higher than what I could purchase a quality Hereford or Angus for. It made no sense.

99% of people do not need more than 50% ear. An F1 Braford is an amazing animal. It is truly a phenomenon from performance, to reproduction, parasites, temperament, etc.

We did make some great females with the Brangus or Braford but as a percentage of the herd it was low. We were bringing the unwanted bag, feet, skin, etc back in along with just an inconsistent look. Two calves with very close genetics would be on opposite ends of the spectrum as far as being clean vs navel and ear. That much variation that you can not control really kills production efficiency for both replacement and and terminal calves.

If I take a Braman cow, that may not be perfect, and breed her to a good hereford bull that F1 is pretty solid. If it's not, I know exactly when to go to stop the problem. When you do it again, let's say to a BA bull, and get a 1/4 baldie the odds are even less. Rarely do I see many issues at all in them. Then taking those offspring terminal... it has been cut again. A large group could/ should be running 1/4 ear cattle, IMO.

The main thing is in that chain I can pretty consistently control the change. We are producing more, quality replacements to choose from and our avg prices for terminal calves are up. In this area those F1s to BA bulls or 1/4s to BA bulls will ring the bell or be a nickle off. You can hit the peak end and not give up durability or longevity with those calves. In my experience, doing that with Brangus, Braford, Beefmaster, etc will be very tough. You will have to have the best of the best in those breeds to achieve that and it will require more than one pretty penny.

Every one has different goals for their operation. If you just want to breed what you like to see great, this doesn't apply. If you have breeding goals to sell replacements or at the auction barn consider it. Crossing those composites will hurt more than they will help, IMO.

Brute, are you selling the BA x F1 crosses as replacements or sale barn/feed lot calves? Also, how do the Brahman x F1 (3/4s) perform? Do you guys keep them as replacements? I love the look of the 3/4s, just don't know their performance.

 

[Brute 23]

Brute, are you selling the BA x F1 crosses as replacements or sale barn/feed lot calves? Also, how do the Brahman x F1 (3/4s) perform? Do you guys keep them as replacements? I love the look of the 3/4s, just don't know their performance.

Both. I really like that combo because you can do both. That steer can ring the bell and the heifer can be sold private treaty.

I will say that I am not selling what I use to just because of time. I'm pretty much skimming what I consider the best of the best for replacements for us. A couple friends or people that work for us will pick through the heifers here and there but thats about it. My heart is just not in dealing with the general public.

The 3/4s perform awesome. I saw some of the highest gains per day (basically highest weaning wts) out of the 3/4s. With that said, I sold the group we had. My goal is for every calf I sell terminal to be 1/4 ear or less with the exception of the F1 byproducts. The 3/4s did not go in to my full blood, 1/2 blood, 1/4, 1/8 plan.

I have not put a Brahman bull on a herd again to produce the 3/4 type cattle.

This is a BA X F1 Braf heifer that is about to get weaned. I am very happy with the calves off that property given it is one of our weaker places (sandy). If she will do that there.. she will prosper any where I take her.



I will say some thing else that I'm not sure I have said. Every thing people say about bulls is true. When we stepped up the caliber of bulls we were purchasing the caliber of the herd went with it. I'm sold on better bulls paying for themselves with in reason. Im a believer in running good glass on avg rifles and good bulls on avg cows.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Both. I really like that combo because you can do both. That steer can ring the bell and the heifer can be sold private treaty.

I will say that I am not selling what I use to just because of time. I'm pretty much skimming what I consider the best of the best for replacements for us. A couple friends or people that work for us will pick through the heifers here and there but thats about it. My heart is just not in dealing with the general public.

The 3/4s perform awesome. I saw some of the highest gains per day (basically highest weaning wts) out of the 3/4s. With that said, I sold the group we had. My goal is for every calf I sell terminal to be 1/4 ear or less with the exception of the F1 byproducts. The 3/4s did not go in to my full blood, 1/2 blood, 1/4, 1/8 plan.

I have not put a Brahman bull on a herd again to produce the 3/4 type cattle.

This is a BA X F1 Braf heifer that is about to get weaned. I am very happy with the calves off that property given it is one of our weaker places (sandy). If she will do that there.. she will prosper any where I take her.

View attachment 23638

I will say some thing else that I'm not sure I have said. Every thing people say about bulls is true. When we stepped up the caliber of bulls we were purchasing the caliber of the herd went with it. I'm sold on better bulls paying for themselves with in reason. Im a believer in running good glass on avg rifles and good bulls on avg cows.

I have said that all along there are no shortcuts on the bull.
A bad cow hurts a bad bull is a disaster, especially with today's inputs. I never understood skimping on bull.

 

[EasTex]

Both. I really like that combo because you can do both. That steer can ring the bell and the heifer can be sold private treaty.

I will say that I am not selling what I use to just because of time. I'm pretty much skimming what I consider the best of the best for replacements for us. A couple friends or people that work for us will pick through the heifers here and there but thats about it. My heart is just not in dealing with the general public.

The 3/4s perform awesome. I saw some of the highest gains per day (basically highest weaning wts) out of the 3/4s. With that said, I sold the group we had. My goal is for every calf I sell terminal to be 1/4 ear or less with the exception of the F1 byproducts. The 3/4s did not go in to my full blood, 1/2 blood, 1/4, 1/8 plan.

I have not put a Brahman bull on a herd again to produce the 3/4 type cattle.

This is a BA X F1 Braf heifer that is about to get weaned. I am very happy with the calves off that property given it is one of our weaker places (sandy). If she will do that there.. she will prosper any where I take her.

View attachment 23638

I will say some thing else that I'm not sure I have said. Every thing people say about bulls is true. When we stepped up the caliber of bulls we were purchasing the caliber of the herd went with it. I'm sold on better bulls paying for themselves with in reason. Im a believer in running good glass on avg rifles and good bulls on avg cows.

Thanks for sharing, very good information.