Black is for Bovine

[Nite Hawk]

The other day we had our 4-H "cow camp" and the heat was stifling. The other yearlings were long fuzzy haired, black angus cross cattle, and they were miserable in the heat and looking for shade. Our 2 white- short haired, & slick haired Pieds sprawled out in the blistering sun and went to sleep...
Figure not only is the color difference but also the hair type, fat levels, body size etc can make a difference in the heat tolerance of different breeds of cattle.

 

[inyati13]

The other day we had our 4-H "cow camp" and the heat was stifling. The other yearlings were long fuzzy haired, black angus cross cattle, and they were miserable in the heat and looking for shade. Our 2 white- short haired, & slick haired Pieds sprawled out in the blistering sun and went to sleep...
Figure not only is the color difference but also the hair type, fat levels, body size etc can make a difference in the heat tolerance of different breeds of cattle.

I believe the length and density of the hair is more of a problem than color. So I agree with you, but the hair according to studies also can insulate an animal from high temperature just like it does from low temperature. I have a heifer (one pictured below) that is fat, dark colored (brown in her winter pelage, black in her summer pelage) and long very thick hair. I frequently comb her out in the spring to get rid of some. But she never seems to suffer. BTW,she is Simangus.

 

[CKC1586]

Pied :mrgreen:

Actually its just naturalean pied.

Yup. Can I ask who he belongs to (can pm if you'd prefer). :tiphat: I've obviously offended someone, not my intent at all... breed what you like and what you can sell.

 

[Nite Hawk]

Something else that may factor into the issue is that some breeds have very thick hides with lots of fat underneath and lots of hair on top.
good for bugs and cold weather, but when it gets hot, not so easy to cool off.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Pied :mrgreen:

Actually its just naturalean pied.

Yup. Can I ask who he belongs to (can pm if you'd prefer). :tiphat: I've obviously offended someone, not my intent at all... breed what you like and what you can sell.[/quote] i tried that,,,, now i like what i can sell

 

[inyati13]

I don't have any problems with the cattle being black...it's just that they are just boring color IMO.

So far, I have not succumbed to the current rage of black hide fever, opting instead, for whatever color they come out of their mommas.

Unfortunately for the Black cattle over other colored cattle-they suffer and stress more in a very hot sunny climate...

I would concur with all of these statements.
I used to breed to get black calves for the fair market projects, but with some of our cows having Char and the "homo black" not being able to foil that... I got over trying to make black club calves and just work on building the best calves we can and the heck with color.
Having a "rainbow" herd, I also see how the darker hided cattle suffer more when weather is really hot and humid here. I feel bad for those girls when I see them distressed.

But inyati, Yes. Unlike my SIL, I love a calf with a white face.
I don't mind chrome of any kind, makes them more unique and easier to identify.

:tiphat: :nod: The Angus Association has spent millions of dollars on marketing and every black breed has benefited, and many breeds have turned their cattle black to cash in a bit as well. BUT raise what you like and what you can market in your area is my opinion. I like the idea of healthy beef, don't give a rats butt what color the hair is, never grilled hair.

There you are. Gotcha. I agree. 100%. Never disagree with a lady.

 

[Taurus]

Something else that may factor into the issue is that some breeds have very thick hides with lots of fat underneath and lots of hair on top.
good for bugs and cold weather, but when it gets hot, not so easy to cool off.

well Brahmans do have loose and thick hide.

 

[inyati13]

Something else that may factor into the issue is that some breeds have very thick hides with lots of fat underneath and lots of hair on top.
good for bugs and cold weather, but when it gets hot, not so easy to cool off.

There is a fly in the ointment. The breeds of bovine that inhabit the arid hot climates where evaporation loss of water is a problem all have thick hides with fat underlying. I have shot eland, wildebeest, kudu, cape buffalo, etc. These bovines have very thick hides and underlying fat. If it was a detriment to survivial in hot arid climates like those in Africa, nature would have selected for a different design. There is one trait to bovines that live in these hot climates that favors them: their pelage is very sparse. I can look at my eland and cape buffalo shoulder mounts and they have just enough hair to cover the surface. But bovines that live in the mopane woodlands and savanahs of Africa also have thick hide to protect them from predators. I gave my last Eland hide to my professional hunter as he was going to make chaps from them because the hide is so thick. The hide of a cape buffalo is so thick only a sharp knife should be used to skin one.

I don't think the thick hide and fat is as much a disadvantage as you are stating.

 

[Nite Hawk]

There was a comment earlier in this thread that wild cattle are basically black.
If you can believe Wikipedia they describe the extinct auroch as this---
Calves were born a chestnut colour. Young bulls changed their coat colour at a few months' old to a very deep brown or black, with a white eel stripe running down the spine. Cows retained the reddish-brown colour. Both sexes had a light-coloured muzzle.[8] Some North African engravings show aurochs with a light-colored "saddle" on the back,[15] but otherwise there is no evidence of variation in coat colour throughout its range. A passage from Mucante (1596), describing the "wild ox" as gray, but is ambiguous and may refer to the wisent. Egyptian grave paintings show cattle with a reddish-brown coat colour in both sexes, with a light saddle,
Is it a possibility that in the hotter climates that black may have predomintated maybe not because they were "tougher", but because alot of the predators--Lions etc are mainly night stalkers, and even though they can see in the dark, a white animal made a better target than a black animal??
In more northern climes such as England the wild cattle are white not black, but they haven't had lions ( a night hunter) since Roman times.
Piedmontese which crossed bos tauras and indian cattle ( auroch depending on who you listen to) and came from the mountains ( often a white environemnt) are mostly white or fawn. How much is natural selection /camoflauge
or human preferance is unknown.
Different breeds of cattle may survive in different climates, but that does not always mean they thrive there.
Just some thoughts..

 

[Taurus]

There was a comment earlier in this thread that wild cattle are basically black.
If you can believe Wikipedia they describe the extinct auroch as this---
Calves were born a chestnut colour. Young bulls changed their coat colour at a few months' old to a very deep brown or black, with a white eel stripe running down the spine. Cows retained the reddish-brown colour. Both sexes had a light-coloured muzzle.[8] Some North African engravings show aurochs with a light-colored "saddle" on the back,[15] but otherwise there is no evidence of variation in coat colour throughout its range. A passage from Mucante (1596), describing the "wild ox" as gray, but is ambiguous and may refer to the wisent. Egyptian grave paintings show cattle with a reddish-brown coat colour in both sexes, with a light saddle,
Is it a possibility that in the hotter climates that black may have predomintated maybe not because they were "tougher", but because alot of the predators--Lions etc are mainly night stalkers, and even though they can see in the dark, a white animal made a better target than a black animal??
In more northern climes such as England the wild cattle are white not black, but they haven't had lions ( a night hunter) since Roman times.
Piedmontese which crossed bos tauras and indian cattle ( auroch depending on who you listen to) and came from the mountains ( often a white environemnt) are mostly white or fawn. How much is natural selection /camoflauge
or human preferance is unknown.
Different breeds of cattle may survive in different climates, but that does not always mean they thrive there.
Just some thoughts..

What about the bison and wild yak, they are northern animals and not white cattle.

Also I'm not sure about the Chillingham cattle, their history is mystery and no evidence that they were true wild cattle like aurochs. It is also possible that they are descended from medieval husbanded cattle that were impounded when Chillingham Park was enclosed. This herd has been isolated for 300 years and no new genetics has flowing into the herd.

 

[inyati13]

There was a comment earlier in this thread that wild cattle are basically black.
If you can believe Wikipedia they describe the extinct auroch as this---
Calves were born a chestnut colour. Young bulls changed their coat colour at a few months' old to a very deep brown or black, with a white eel stripe running down the spine. Cows retained the reddish-brown colour. Both sexes had a light-coloured muzzle.[8] Some North African engravings show aurochs with a light-colored "saddle" on the back,[15] but otherwise there is no evidence of variation in coat colour throughout its range. A passage from Mucante (1596), describing the "wild ox" as gray, but is ambiguous and may refer to the wisent. Egyptian grave paintings show cattle with a reddish-brown coat colour in both sexes, with a light saddle,
Is it a possibility that in the hotter climates that black may have predomintated maybe not because they were "tougher", but because alot of the predators--Lions etc are mainly night stalkers, and even though they can see in the dark, a white animal made a better target than a black animal??
In more northern climes such as England the wild cattle are white not black, but they haven't had lions ( a night hunter) since Roman times.
Piedmontese which crossed bos tauras and indian cattle ( auroch depending on who you listen to) and came from the mountains ( often a white environemnt) are mostly white or fawn. How much is natural selection /camoflauge
or human preferance is unknown.
Different breeds of cattle may survive in different climates, but that does not always mean they thrive there.
Just some thoughts..

The origins of domestic cattle find their evolutionary history in the aurochs which tend to be brown to black. I thought that reference to the eel stripe was interesting. Made me think of a skunktail cow. I used the Wikipedia reference you did when I made the comment about early bovines being black. But I don't think you can draw any definite conclusions other than to say that if natural selection has selected for black or dark pelage in hot climates like Africa, then surely, black pelage is not a limiting factor to bovines surviving in a temperate climate like North America. I have been exposed to protective coloration studies in mammalogy, ornithology, herpetology, etc. and I don't think you can say black is protective because many of the other bovines in the same areas that you find black (sable antelope, cape buffalo, etc.), you also find other colors like gray, brown, etc. (impala, kudu, bushbuck). There are some interesting finding on zebras that the stripes confuse predators by making it difficult to lock in on one due to the flashing stripes.

I think the main point is that black pelage may be a disadvantage but not a reason to avoid that color.

 

[Ouachita]

Inyati, you're a trip and it sounds like you've been on a few. I don't know whether to think of you as an Einstein or weapons grade stupid, but in either case you have an interesting history and perspective of same

 

[inyati13]

Inyati, you're a trip and it sounds like you've been on a few. I don't know whether to think of you as an Einstein or weapons grade stupid, but in either case you have an interesting history and perspective of same

Just think of me as a KY hillbilly raising cattle and living out my days.

 

[Ouachita]

Inyati, you're a trip and it sounds like you've been on a few. I don't know whether to think of you as an Einstein or weapons grade stupid, but in either case you have an interesting history and perspective of same

Just think of me as a KY hillbilly raising cattle and living out my days.

I'll try, but in a previous thread you conveyed a mental picture that's gonna be hard, er um difficult, to get out of my head :lol2: I reckon most of us are hillbillies raising cattle and living out our days. Nothing at all wrong with that.

 

[Nite Hawk]

The neighbors down the road raise buffalo, and they are medium brown except their hump which is a darker brown, but they are not black..
One interesting comment on the wikipedia article on auroch's was the stripe down the back, ( is it the pinzguar that has the white stripe??) and the white on the muzzle reminds me of the Limo and Jersey.
Also, that some aurochs had the brown saddle on their backs. Haven't seen too many black cattle around that have that feature.Does not seem to me that aurochs were exclusively totally black.
A breed that is considered "older" is the Chinese yellow cow. The pictures that I have seen of them, they are sort of a zebu style of cattle often with a jersey coloring. Tan with the ring around the nose, and lighter streaks up the inside of the hind legs.
Concerning the white cattle of England, they are considered to be true wild cattle and not feral, and supposedly have the head shape of the ancient auroch cattle,and supposedly been there for centuries.
Like someone said earlier, raise the cattle that meets your needs, and thrives in your environment.
For instance you don't see brahman type cattle around this area ( other than rodeo stock) because while they may survive, they probably wouldn't thrive in this area...

 

[inyati13]

Domestic cows and aurochs are both classified as Bos primigenius. The mature bulls were black and the cows were reddish-brown. Yes, the pinzguar is reddish brown and has white along the back with an uneven border.

Carl von Linne fathered the taxonomy of flora and fauna. Families end in "idae" and subfamilies end in "nae". If you use the term bovine, in general, you are referring to the entire family. Wild cattle are a subfamily, bovinae. In beginning this thread, the statement that Black is for Bovine, bovine would mean the entire family, which I believe I remember is about 140 species worldwide. So that includes animals like the Sable Antelope of Africa which are jet black. Maybe the best example to use is the Cape Buffalo, a member of the subfamily Bovinae. (BTW, in taxonomy it is proper to put the taxonomic category in the hierarchy in italics or underlined). They are black and live in a hot climate.

I agree with you that one should husband the color of cattle they want, even if they don't fit their environment. It has gone unappreciated but the reason I started the thread to begin with was not to become an advocate for black but to push back on what seemed to be an unjustified bias against black. To do that, goes without comment that I had to wear the mantle of an advocate for black.

Not talking about you, Nite Hawk, you have been academic about this but this may awaken someone that feels compelled to get on this thread and tell everyone reading (which is probably very few) that my purpose was something entirely different. I love it when someone else can devine out what someone else has in their head. They should have been psychiatrist.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Inyati, you're a trip and it sounds like you've been on a few. I don't know whether to think of you as an Einstein or weapons grade stupid, but in either case you have an interesting history and perspective of same

Just think of me as a KY hillbilly raising cattle and living out my days.

I'll try, but in a previous thread you conveyed a mental picture that's gonna be hard, er um difficult, to get out of my head :lol2: I reckon most of us are hillbillies raising cattle and living out our days. Nothing at all wrong with that.

 

[Taurus]

The neighbors down the road raise buffalo, and they are medium brown except their hump which is a darker brown, but they are not black..

Even they are not black, they are still dark animals, not white or light colored. You forget about the yaks.

Concerning the white cattle of England, they are considered to be true wild cattle and not feral, and supposedly have the head shape of the ancient auroch cattle,and supposedly been there for centuries.

The key word is supposedly...but there is no evidence that the white cattle of England is not feral. Many primitive breeds displayed the head shape of the auroch cattle, not just wild cattle of England.

 

[inyati13]

I see em often at walmart that make him look like a Prince.

 

[TexasBred]

Inyati, you're a trip and it sounds like you've been on a few. I don't know whether to think of you as an Einstein or weapons grade stupid, but in either case you have an interesting history and perspective of same

Just think of me as a KY hillbilly raising cattle and living out my days.

I'll try, but in a previous thread you conveyed a mental picture that's gonna be hard, er um difficult, to get out of my head :lol2: I reckon most of us are hillbillies raising cattle and living out our days. Nothing at all wrong with that.

Hey don't bother the guy just because he didn't mention a "stump" anywhere in his remarks. :lol2: :lol2: