Black Herefords

[Ashton V]

I noticed too that on the website the reason for encouraging black hereford bulls was to produce black baldy offspring. Why not buckle down and do it right with hereford/angus? Sure you may come out with a white faced calf, but if the bull lacks then wouldn't you be sacrificing quality? It didn't make sense before to me so i asked this question to see if i could find some answers and i think now that i know what this breed is, it makes even less sense to my why someone would be after these cattle.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I noticed too that on the website the reason for encouraging black hereford bulls was to produce black baldy offspring. Why not buckle down and do it right with hereford/angus? Sure you may come out with a white faced calf, but if the bull lacks then wouldn't you be sacrificing quality? It didn't make sense before to me so i asked this question to see if i could find some answers and i think now that i know what this breed is, it makes even less sense to my why someone would be after these cattle.

I put an Angus on my girls to make replacement heifers to sell at a premium and not get hit on the steers at the salebarn.

 

[BRAFORDMAN]

I have read that the true or original "black hereford" was holstein x hereford, not angus hereford

 

[Idaman]

I have read that the true or original "black hereford" was holstein x hereford, not angus hereford

Probably. Does that make them more or less attractive?

 

[dun]

I have read that the true or original "black hereford" was holstein x hereford, not angus hereford

That was probably the orginal black baldy. Based on the loony black hereford association (since they are the only ones pitching black herefords) they are angus Hereford. Every one else just calls them what they are, BLACK BALDYS

 

[Dylan Biggs]

Seems ridiculous. But don't know if it is anymore ridiculous then Black Limo, Simmies, Gelbvieh, Charolais, Maines, or Angus for that matter. Why can't Angus be Red. No you Red guys have to go play in the corner, in the U.S. that is, the rest of the world has embraced Angus integration.

Ah heck good cattle are good cattle regardless of color, right?

The black Herefords sure don't look like much, yikes! :hide:

 

[Black Coos]

The reason ANGUS are black.....

The Scotman that basicly started the breed DID NOT WANT HIS scottish coos to be confused with his arch emenies THE ENGLISH, Both breeds Hereford and angus, probly looked alot more alike in them days, except the BLACK COOS were polled..

That thing about poor quality in looking for a single trait, Same was said about POLLED HEREFORDS in days gone past...

 

[dun]

The reason ANGUS are black.....

The Scotman that basicly started the breed DID NOT WANT HIS scottish coos to be confused with his arch emenies THE ENGLISH, Both breeds Hereford and angus, probly looked alot more alike in them days, except the BLACK COOS were polled..

That thing about poor quality in looking for a single trait, Same was said about POLLED HEREFORDS in days gone past...

And yet the US is the only country that discriminates against red in their registry

 

[andybob]

I have read that the true or original "black hereford" was holstein x hereford, not angus hereford

Probably. Does that make them more or less attractive?

The "Black Hereford" F1 is purely a by product of the dairy industry, many herds are "flying herds" in which replacements are bought in heavily in calf, and beef bulls run to produce calves which are sold straight off the farms, the bulls to contractors who raise them for the fast food chains, and the F1 hiefers are sought after for terminal beef calves for Barley beef.
With an increasing trend toward the use of the traditional British and New Zealand Fresian the beef quality of the Black Hereford F1 has been greatly improved over using the Holstien.
The term "Black Baldy" is not used in the UK, the black crosses have always been referred to as Black Hereford, there is no breed of that name over here.

 

[CKC1586]

i just dont understand how they could come up with black herefords without adding some of another breed in there.

You can't. It's a cross like any other "composite bull" being sold out there.

:nod:

 

[Dylan Biggs]

The reason ANGUS are black.....

The Scotman that basicly started the breed DID NOT WANT HIS scottish coos to be confused with his arch emenies THE ENGLISH, Both breeds Hereford and angus, probly looked alot more alike in them days, except the BLACK COOS were polled..

That thing about poor quality in looking for a single trait, Same was said about POLLED HEREFORDS in days gone past...

And yet the US is the only country that discriminates against red in their registry

That English threat certainly isn't going to disappear overnight. :cowboy:

 

[TexasBred]

Thanks guys...I now know what Coos are.

 

[Beef Man]

Black Herefordsare just anther composite. They have been tried before and dissapeared and will again. Why fool with them when you can get the baldie by simply crossing a good hereford bull with some good black cows and reap the extra hybred vigor for yourself??? Composite to composite is a joke,just shipped 3 loads of steers to the feedlot and the poorest doing pen was all composite and gained the least from weaning to payweight and the sort on them was not good.They were from 650 to a few weighing 900.

 

[VanC]

Seems ridiculous. But don't know if it is anymore ridiculous then Black Limo, Simmies, Gelbvieh, Charolais, Maines, or Angus for that matter. Why can't Angus be Red. No you Red guys have to go play in the corner, in the U.S. that is, the rest of the world has embraced Angus integration.

Ah heck good cattle are good cattle regardless of color, right?

The black Herefords sure don't look like much, yikes! :hide:

Exactly. Some folks have decided to turn Herefords black for the same reasons all those other breeds turned black. Give them time. The ones that know what they're doing will start turning out decent animals eventually. Right now, silly as it seems to some of us, the priority is the black hide. Same as it was when all those other breeds started turning black. Don't forget, there were some pretty pizz poor black Simmies, Limmies, etc. out there a few years ago. Now there are some dam fine ones.

I know this may come as a shock to some of you, but there are actually people out there that don't run Angus cows. Hereford either. But if they happen to want black baldies because that's what their market wants, a homo black Hereford might give them what they need without having to change their entire herd.

 

[Hereford76]

Seems ridiculous. But don't know if it is anymore ridiculous then Black Limo, Simmies, Gelbvieh, Charolais, Maines, or Angus for that matter. Why can't Angus be Red. No you Red guys have to go play in the corner, in the U.S. that is, the rest of the world has embraced Angus integration.

Ah heck good cattle are good cattle regardless of color, right?

The black Herefords sure don't look like much, yikes! :hide:

Exactly. Some folks have decided to turn Herefords black for the same reasons all those other breeds turned black. Give them time. The ones that know what they're doing will start turning out decent animals eventually. Right now, silly as it seems to some of us, the priority is the black hide. Same as it was when all those other breeds started turning black. Don't forget, there were some pretty pizz poor black Simmies, Limmies, etc. out there a few years ago. Now there are some dam fine ones.

I know this may come as a shock to some of you, but there are actually people out there that don't run Angus cows. Hereford either. But if they happen to want black baldies because that's what their market wants, a homo black Hereford might give them what they need without having to change their entire herd.

Then your idea of a black baldy is different than mine.... and besides i'd think it would take a lot of dandelions and one seductive cow to get anything from a "homo black hereford" bull.

 

[Brandonm22]

I agree with VanC. I can see where this concept could be attractive to commercial cattlemen. Somebody who understood genetics, marketing, and cattle COULD make a real breed out of this if they took a couple of decades and a chunk of money to do this right. I really have not been that impressed by the people involved in this "breed" to date, though. It looks to me like the whole thing has been a rush to send something to market before it is ready. I hope I am wrong; but this looks more like a pyramid scheme than a real conscientious effort to build something long lasting.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I agree with VanC. I can see where this concept could be attractive to commercial cattlemen. Somebody who understood genetics, marketing, and cattle COULD make a real breed out of this if they took a couple of decades and a chunk of money to do this right. I really have not been that impressed by the people involved in this "breed" to date, though. It looks to me like the whole thing has been a rush to send something to market before it is ready. I hope I am wrong; but this looks more like a pyramid scheme than a real conscientious effort to build something long lasting.

This makes no sense to me at all why develop a breed doing away with the hybred vigor 15% you get on the first cross using Angus and Hereford. Secondly why would I want to turn my herd black as I have more options with the red cow. Change the bull change the calf crop color. I can buy red cows cheaper than black cows.
Most of all I maintain maximized pounds of the hybred vigor form the F-1 cross.

 

[Brandonm22]

This makes no sense to me at all why develop a breed doing away with the hybred vigor 15% you get on the first cross using Angus and Hereford. Secondly why would I want to turn my herd black as I have more options with the red cow. Change the bull change the calf crop color. I can buy red cows cheaper than black cows.
Most of all I maintain maximized pounds of the hybred vigor form the F-1 cross.

YES, you lose most of the hybrid vigor you get with an F-1. However if you know what you are doing (and get incredibly lucky along the way) you wind up with a homozygous black, homozygous polled, whitefaced, pigmented British, breed with the marbling of the Angus, the disposition of the Hereford, good growth, efficiency, ruggedness, and strong maternal qualities to use in a crossbreeding program with a continental or (in the south) Bos Indicus breed. That is the theory anyway. I can't fault the theory behind the breed. It is a good theory when you just talk about it. I just am not all that consistently impressed with the results to this point though.

 

[Caustic Burno]

This makes no sense to me at all why develop a breed doing away with the hybred vigor 15% you get on the first cross using Angus and Hereford. Secondly why would I want to turn my herd black as I have more options with the red cow. Change the bull change the calf crop color. I can buy red cows cheaper than black cows.
Most of all I maintain maximized pounds of the hybred vigor form the F-1 cross.

YES, you lose most of the hybrid vigor you get with an F-1. However if you know what you are doing (and get incredibly lucky along the way) you wind up with a homozygous black, homozygous polled, whitefaced, pigmented British, breed with the marbling of the Angus, the disposition of the Hereford, good growth, efficiency, ruggedness, and strong maternal qualities to use in a crossbreeding program with a continental or (in the south) Bos Indicus breed. That is the theory anyway. I can't fault the theory behind the breed. It is a good theory when you just talk about it. I just am not all that consistently impressed with the results to this point though.

That said if they do it right and standarize the composite to a breed standard they will loose growth thats just science. Secondly I only have to put up with one Angus in my pasture and still reap the benefits of the F-1.
The heifers bring a premium for replacements the steers historically here ring the bell at the salebarn every time. All the while maintaining a herd of better cows IMO for my enviroment that has options that I don't have with a black cow. I can come back with a Char bull make high yellow baldies the heifers still fetch a premium for replacements and the steers sell well, and what they lack in price per pound they make up in pounds. This breed just has no WOW factor or benifit for the commercial cattleman IMO.

 

[Brandonm22]

I am not criticizing three way crosses and I am not disputing the fact that a F1 black baldie cow is going to have more hybrid vigour than a 5th generation black baldie composite (this is true of all composites versus their F1 forbears). They would argue that the problem with your system is that you have to maintain that purebred Hereford herd and somebody has to maintain a purebred Angus herd to get that baldy cow. You can entirely eliminate two purebred herds by switching to the composite and if the composite is done right the calves from those composite cows are going to be more uniform and they will bring just as much $$$s per pound as your F1 when they run through the ring and you can still come back with the Char on the composite and probably not get a noticable drop in performance versus the 3 way.