Black Herefords

[southoftheriver]

Not to stir up any negative breed bashing or anything, (I'll leave that to the other posts ), but with all the talk about Black on here I thought this might be a good time to get some feedback.

I'm just getting my feet wet with the whole cattle thing. I just help out my neighbors once in a while and I am starting to build a small herd with 3 angus cow/calf pairs and plan to sell and buy back more cow/calf pairs in the future until I reach about 20-30 head. I do'nt want to borrow money. I've been paying cash for everything.

Anyways I am super partial to polled herefords. My family used to raise them from the 50's to about 2000. I would love to have a herd of them but around here in Kansas it seems like black just does better no matter how you look at it and i'm in it to make money. Right now I will breed back my angus cows to a neighbor's angus bull. When my herd gets bigger I want to change some things. One thing I'd like to do is gradually cross breed w/ a hereford bull to get some baldies. Now I've always heard that this cross will result in throwing around 25% red/white faced? is that right? Well my question is is this a good idea? I've heard cattle sell better in a uniform color. One thing i've been researching is the Black Hereford breed. I guess there's actually a registered breed now called the ABHA. Anyone familiar? Well I was thinking when I get ready to put more money into my operation why not get a registered Black Hereford bull and breed my black cows and they say 100% of the time you will have black baldies. Now this will also work on baldie cows too right? I'm thinking what a great way to have the both of best worlds - hereford and angus traits with 100 of the calves being black but still resembling herefords. Anyways just wanted to know what everyone thought or if anyone has heard of this breed or breeding program.

 

[dun]

If the bull is homozygous black and you breed him to red cows all of the calves will be black.
People seem to get hung up on color when they talk about uniformity. That's only a small piece of it. Uniformity is better judged on the likeness of the calves. Same physical characteristics and size.

dun

 

[southoftheriver]

If the bull is homozygous black and you breed him to red cows all of the calves will be black.
People seem to get hung up on color when they talk about uniformity. That's only a small piece of it. Uniformity is better judged on the likeness of the calves. Same physical characteristics and size.

dun

Oh I agree with ya dun. Good cattle will always sell more than some scraglers. I was just going off of some pointers from some cattlemen around here. I'm not a big fan of black. But at the moment thats where the money is around here. In the future I'd like to get away from it, but until I have enough money to play around with I'm goign to stick with whats working. Someday i'll focus on producing some quality non - angus cattle and maybe the market will change and poeple will wake up but until then I might try to have both of best worlds with hereford and angus cross. I think its a great cross and I've seen baldies sell real well around here.

Any hereford guys out there that are liking the idea of a separate hereford breed? Or any hating on the subject?

 

[El_Putzo]

If you are sure your cows are angus, you can put that good hereford bull on them anytime and not have to worry about getting anything but 100% black baldies. Black is dominant, as is the white face of the hereford, so unless some of your angus cows have red ancestors upclose in the pedigree, chances are you won't have to worry about any red calves.

On the Black Hereford topic, I don't think you'll find too many around here who support the idea. Everyone knows that black baldies are some of the best cattle out there, but the American Hereford Association does not allow breeding up, hence all the hostility towards calling these crossbreds, black hereford. It's been discussed extensively on here. Try a search on "black Hereford" and you'll find all you need to know.

 

[Chris H]

I think you're pulling some legs here, haha.

Do a search on 'black herefords' on this board and you'll see some strong opinions about them.

 

[southoftheriver]

If you are sure your cows are angus, you can put that good hereford bull on them anytime and not have to worry about getting anything but 100% black baldies. Black is dominant, as is the white face of the hereford, so unless some of your angus cows have red ancestors upclose in the pedigree, chances are you won't have to worry about any red calves.

On the Black Hereford topic, I don't think you'll find too many around here who support the idea. Everyone knows that black baldies are some of the best cattle out there, but the American Hereford Association does not allow breeding up, hence all the hostility towards calling these crossbreds, black hereford. It's been discussed extensively on here. Try a search on "black Hereford" and you'll find all you need to know.

Ok thanks. Yeah kind of new. Probably should have put this on the beginners board. I just ran across the http://www.blackherford.com website and was thinking hmmm I wonder if anyone has discussed this. If I were a herford breeder or the AHA I probaly wouldn't support the idea either. I'll do more research this and look through the archives. Thanks for the input!

 

[KNERSIE]

If you really love herefords that much, don't try and make them something they are not. Why not run a straight hereford cowherd and use a black angus bull on them to still have herefords and also get the premium of the baldies at the sale barn.

You can always AI your best cows to a hereford bull to get the replacements you need or in a small herd like your planning you might just as well buy them in.

 

[southoftheriver]

If you really love herefords that much, don't try and make them something they are not. Why not run a straight hereford cowherd and use a black angus bull on them to still have herefords and also get the premium of the baldies at the sale barn.

You can always AI your best cows to a hereford bull to get the replacements you need or in a small herd like your planning you might just as well buy them in.

True. That might be the best. I'm kind of on my own with my cattle. Just thought i'd get some info from some of you that know your stuff. There's a lot of different ways i'm looking at in starting up a small herd (20-30). The angus I do have are just something to get started and get my feet wet. After looking at the archives on "black herefords" I can see this was a very hot topic. Its nothing I was pushing or arguing for. So I hope nobody takes it that way. I was just interested. Thanks!

 

[mnmtranching]

A polled Hereford bull and those black cows sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[southoftheriver]

A polled Hereford bull and those black cows sounds like a good idea to me.

yeah I might not mess around with the whole "black hereford" thing. Anyways right now I've got a good thing with my landlord. I do chores and help him out and I get to put my cows in with his angus bull and then run the stalks with his herd in the winter and just pay a little part of the hay. The "black hereford" thing was interesting as I'd never thought there was even a breed - which I guess just matters who ya talk to!

Ok this is a little while off in the future, but when I finally do break off and rent my own ground (which my family owns already, I just will need to give the renters a little ahead of time notice on the pasture only.) when do you recommend I get a bull?

I will only have about 80acres of good pasture land but also have stalks for the winter. Along with the 80 acre pasture, the farm consists of 220 acres of cropground that is usually 80 acres irrigated corn, 80 acres irrgated soybeans, 20 acres dryland beans, 40 acres wheat. I may convert 10 acres or so to alfalfa. We also get around 30 bales from the waterways and draws. I'd also have a good shed to put calves and a good feedlot.

 

[KNERSIE]

sound like you just need to build numbers and you're off to a good start, good luck. You can build the hereford numbers in your own time, in the meanwhile take advantage of the good price on black cattle. I started with three hereford heifers in my mixed herd and gradually went over to straight hereford and then again started with three registered heifers and now run a small registered herd alongside the commercial herefords

 

[farmwife]

Won't gripe but for just a second. The Black Hereford had to start their own association because the American Hereford Association says they're not Hereford!!

Anyhow, now my opinion. If you use a registered Hereford bull on you Angus cows -- in addition to what everyone else has said, you can also participate in the Hereford Verified program via the American Hereford Assoc. HV is a feedlot program. Go to http://www.hereford.org and go to Hereford Verified or Certified Hereford Beef.

 

[Aero]

If the bull is homozygous black and you breed him to red cows all of the calves will be black.
People seem to get hung up on color when they talk about uniformity. That's only a small piece of it. Uniformity is better judged on the likeness of the calves. Same physical characteristics and size.

dun

i think a big part of the color issue is that it is much easier to see a good looking red calf than it is to tell as much from a black animal.

it can be done, but good calves jump out at you if they are red.

 

[dun]

If the bull is homozygous black and you breed him to red cows all of the calves will be black.
People seem to get hung up on color when they talk about uniformity. That's only a small piece of it. Uniformity is better judged on the likeness of the calves. Same physical characteristics and size.

dun

i think a big part of the color issue is that it is much easier to see a good looking red calf than it is to tell as much from a black animal.

it can be done, but good calves jump out at you if they are red.

We have so few black calves that the stand out like a black bean in a white cats butt. This year we will have half a dozen black ones though so maybe I can try to tell the difference in quality/structure.

dun

 

[mnmtranching]

At the time you take over the pasture, if you don't use the landlords bull, at that time would be the time to get your bull. Sounds like you have a good place to run a cow/calf operation.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

If you really love herefords that much, don't try and make them something they are not. Why not run

• a straight hereford cowherd and use a black angus bull

on them to still have herefords and also get the premium of the baldies at the sale barn.

You can always AI your best cows to a hereford bull to get the replacements you need or in a small herd like your planning you might just as well buy them in.

plus the heterosis you get with that cross.thats been bred out of the black hereford. thats what really sucks about the black hereford deal it dont make any sence. its like having a corvette with a 4 cylinder eng.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Not to stir up any negative breed bashing or anything, (I'll leave that to the other posts ), but with all the talk about Black on here I thought this might be a good time to get some feedback.

I'm just getting my feet wet with the whole cattle thing. I just help out my neighbors once in a while and I am starting to build a small herd with 3 angus cow/calf pairs and plan to sell and buy back more cow/calf pairs in the future until I reach about 20-30 head. I do'nt want to borrow money. I've been paying cash for everything.

Anyways I am super partial to polled herefords. My family used to raise them from the 50's to about 2000. I would love to have a herd of them but around here in Kansas it seems like black just does better no matter how you look at it and i'm in it to make money. Right now I will breed back my angus cows to a neighbor's angus bull. When my herd gets bigger I want to change some things. One thing I'd like to do is gradually cross breed w/ a hereford bull to get some baldies. Now I've always heard that this cross will result in throwing around 25% red/white faced? is that right? Well my question is is this a good idea? I've heard cattle sell better in a uniform color. One thing i've been researching is the Black Hereford breed. I guess there's actually a registered breed now called the ABHA. Anyone familiar? Well I was thinking when I get ready to put more money into my operation why not get a registered Black Hereford bull and breed my black cows and they say 100% of the time you will have black baldies. Now this will also work on baldie cows too right? I'm thinking what a great way to have the both of best worlds - hereford and angus traits with 100 of the calves being black but still resembling herefords. Anyways just wanted to know what everyone thought or if anyone has heard of this breed or breeding program.

The breed doesn't exsist someone is trying to sell you a bill of goods. This is another example of chasing single trait selection.
Go buy youself a herd of polled Hereford cows put a Homo Angus on them and get a herd of black Herefords every spring.

 

[southoftheriver]

Not to stir up any negative breed bashing or anything, (I'll leave that to the other posts ), but with all the talk about Black on here I thought this might be a good time to get some feedback.

I'm just getting my feet wet with the whole cattle thing. I just help out my neighbors once in a while and I am starting to build a small herd with 3 angus cow/calf pairs and plan to sell and buy back more cow/calf pairs in the future until I reach about 20-30 head. I do'nt want to borrow money. I've been paying cash for everything.

Anyways I am super partial to polled herefords. My family used to raise them from the 50's to about 2000. I would love to have a herd of them but around here in Kansas it seems like black just does better no matter how you look at it and i'm in it to make money. Right now I will breed back my angus cows to a neighbor's angus bull. When my herd gets bigger I want to change some things. One thing I'd like to do is gradually cross breed w/ a hereford bull to get some baldies. Now I've always heard that this cross will result in throwing around 25% red/white faced? is that right? Well my question is is this a good idea? I've heard cattle sell better in a uniform color. One thing i've been researching is the Black Hereford breed. I guess there's actually a registered breed now called the ABHA. Anyone familiar? Well I was thinking when I get ready to put more money into my operation why not get a registered Black Hereford bull and breed my black cows and they say 100% of the time you will have black baldies. Now this will also work on baldie cows too right? I'm thinking what a great way to have the both of best worlds - hereford and angus traits with 100 of the calves being black but still resembling herefords. Anyways just wanted to know what everyone thought or if anyone has heard of this breed or breeding program.

The breed doesn't exsist someone is trying to sell you a bill of goods. This is another example of chasing single trait selection.
Go buy youself a herd of polled Hereford cows put a Homo Angus on them and get a herd of black Herefords every spring.

Thanks! Ok so I'm really new to the whole genetics thing. Any good links to look at? Now I already have a few bred angus cows. What I plan to do is sell the calf and buy a new cow/calf pair later and then breed back the cow I took the calf off of and build up my herd that way. Slow yes but I do'nt want to borrow money. Say I do the opposite of what you said and build up a herd of angus cows and later on get a polled hereford bull. Will I have the same results if I had a herd of polled hereford cows and an Angus bull?

 

[Aero]

We have so few black calves that the stand out like a black bean in a white cats butt. This year we will have half a dozen black ones though so maybe I can try to tell the difference in quality/structure.

dun

i was thinking of a group of reds compared to a group of blacks. funny, you having blacks.

 

[dun]

funny, you having blacks.

Wife complained about all of them looking the same. She can pick out the baldys, but the reds are just so many red cows to her

dun