Black Baldies

[Ryan]

I don't see what the "mess" is. Many breeds allow percentage cattle to be registered. Some will register anything sired by a registered bull. Some will "register" another breed bull and allow the offspring to be registered. It's the BLACK HEREFORD's registry. They can do whatever they want, just like other breeds.

The mess is that they are just pigging backing onto another breeds name. Other composite breeds either combine the name of the breeds they are made up of (Brangus, Braford...) or they come up with a completely new name (Beefmaster, Santa Gertrudis...). By calling them "black hereford" they are marketing them as herefords that happen to be black, however, they are not that. THey are a crossbred, composite breed, that doesn't even require the animals to look like a hereford that is black (i.e. the solid black animal that was pictured, and registered). I think it is great to have a black baldy resistry, and they can do as they please. Like you said, its their registery, they can do whatever they want with it, however call it what it is. Its not a black hereford, its a hereford based black and white, or black, composite breed.

Ryan

 

[Frankie]

Why has their never been a Black Baldy breed developed. With all the new composite breeds being developed, it makes me wonder why this age old classic has never gotten this designation.

I would think Hereford would be scrambling for developing this breed.

I think that Hereford is leaving a big pot of money on the table by NOT forming a Black Baldie registry. Simmental, Limousin, Maine, Gelbvieh, etc all supplement their income by collecting registration fees on Angus X their breed. One problem though with breeding a black baldie composite is lack of uniformity. You breed an F1 baldie x an F1 baldie and your F2 generation is going to include reds, blacks, all out Hereford markings, mottled face, etc calves and you would even get some all blacks.

Though not a registry, AHA has developed a program called Hereford Verified -- animals eligible that are English bred and originate from either a registered bull or cow.

If it's not a registry, what is it?

 

[Caustic Burno]

Why has their never been a Black Baldy breed developed. With all the new composite breeds being developed, it makes me wonder why this age old classic has never gotten this designation.

I would think Hereford would be scrambling for developing this breed.

Absolutely the worst thing that could happen to the beef industry in my opinon, we are getting almost as bad as dairy with Angus infused into everthing under the sun. The fad chasing has really gotten bad in the last few years. We keep wading in this septic tank and we are going to find the turd like dairy.

http://www.news.wisc.edu/13082

http://cgil.uoguelph.ca/pub/Miglior/105.pdf

Huh? Your articles talk about genetic problems in the dairy breeds because of narrow genetic selection. On the other hand, you seem to be complaining about widespread crossbreeding in the beef industry ("Angus infused into everthing under the sun"". Perhaps you would take time to explain to me how the two go together?

This is real simple you are selecting for single trait of black hide.
We shouldn't be trying to infuse any one breed into every breed no matter which one it is. If you keep using Angus in every breed you are getting into the shallow end of the gene pool.

 

[Frankie]

Why has their never been a Black Baldy breed developed. With all the new composite breeds being developed, it makes me wonder why this age old classic has never gotten this designation.

I would think Hereford would be scrambling for developing this breed.

Absolutely the worst thing that could happen to the beef industry in my opinon, we are getting almost as bad as dairy with Angus infused into everthing under the sun. The fad chasing has really gotten bad in the last few years. We keep wading in this septic tank and we are going to find the turd like dairy.

http://www.news.wisc.edu/13082

http://cgil.uoguelph.ca/pub/Miglior/105.pdf

Huh? Your articles talk about genetic problems in the dairy breeds because of narrow genetic selection. On the other hand, you seem to be complaining about widespread crossbreeding in the beef industry ("Angus infused into everthing under the sun"". Perhaps you would take time to explain to me how the two go together?

This is real simple you are selecting for single trait of black hide.
We shouldn't be trying to infuse any one breed into every breed no matter which one it is. If you keep using Angus in every breed you are getting into the shallow end of the gene pool.

When other breeds crossbreed with Angus, they're expanding their gene pool. Yet your links lead to stories about a shrinking gene pool. Doesn't make sense to me. :?: BTW, you need to investigate the Angus gene pool a bit more. It's a lot deeper than you apparently realize.

 

[farmwife]

Why has their never been a Black Baldy breed developed. With all the new composite breeds being developed, it makes me wonder why this age old classic has never gotten this designation.

I would think Hereford would be scrambling for developing this breed.

I think that Hereford is leaving a big pot of money on the table by NOT forming a Black Baldie registry. Simmental, Limousin, Maine, Gelbvieh, etc all supplement their income by collecting registration fees on Angus X their breed. One problem though with breeding a black baldie composite is lack of uniformity. You breed an F1 baldie x an F1 baldie and your F2 generation is going to include reds, blacks, all out Hereford markings, mottled face, etc calves and you would even get some all blacks.

Though not a registry, AHA has developed a program called Hereford Verified -- animals eligible that are English bred and originate from either a registered bull or cow.

If it's not a registry, what is it?

They don't get a registration number!! It's tied to the Certified Hereford Beef program.

 

[Frankie]

Why has their never been a Black Baldy breed developed. With all the new composite breeds being developed, it makes me wonder why this age old classic has never gotten this designation.

I would think Hereford would be scrambling for developing this breed.

I think that Hereford is leaving a big pot of money on the table by NOT forming a Black Baldie registry. Simmental, Limousin, Maine, Gelbvieh, etc all supplement their income by collecting registration fees on Angus X their breed. One problem though with breeding a black baldie composite is lack of uniformity. You breed an F1 baldie x an F1 baldie and your F2 generation is going to include reds, blacks, all out Hereford markings, mottled face, etc calves and you would even get some all blacks.

Though not a registry, AHA has developed a program called Hereford Verified -- animals eligible that are English bred and originate from either a registered bull or cow.

If it's not a registry, what is it?

Duh!! They don't get a registration number moron!! It's tied to the Certified Hereford Beef program.

Then why mention it in a thread about registries? You already said it wasn't a registry, but you still don't say what it is. Don't you know? BTW, name calling doesn't make you look one bit smarter. :roll:

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

As far as the limiting of gene pool conversation that is going on in this thread, both of your arguments are logical. In this particular example however, Black Baldies have been in existence for a very, very, long time. I do not believe that giving them full blood status is commiting the crime of limiting the gene pool more than it already is.

The blood lines for angus is very deep in the aspect that a lot of people own angus cattle. However, this does not mean that it is genetically deep. For instance, ALL angus cattle are polled. There is a homozygotic gene, as well as black, the compostion/quality of their coat, some might even say the hardness of their hooves, etc, etc.

Dairy cattle can not be compared to Beef cattle in my opinion as far as limiting the gene pool. I believe the dairy industry usds line breeding for more extensively than the beef industry. Granted, I'll admit I didn't read the article, it doesn't concern me, but I believe the article was referring to holstein cattle, a breed. Traits such as this are far more represented within a single breed rather than across an industry. With the dairy industry, if holstein cattle are affected, then the industry is affected.

You could look at all the breeds who have used angus cattle to miraculously make their breed black. But several breeds have not done this and several of those within the breed chose to had members who chose to stay pure, and I commend them for that.

If every Angus influenced cow started dying tomorrow? Sure the beef industry would be affected but not to the degree that the dairy industry would if it was Holstein, or I at least I wouldn't assume so.

In short, I believe the Beef industry's gene pool is far more diverse than the Dairy industry's. I don't think that this article really applies, or is anything we need to worry about.

 

[Angus Guy]

Any breed can register anything they want as far as I'm concerned. The thing that bothers me is when they call them purebreds. To my way of thinking any breed that breeds up with other breeds for any trait selection is cross-breeding. If they want to register them that is fine just DO NOT call them purebreds. So just for giggles lets just call all of cow herds cross-breeds and we'll all be right.

 

[farmwife]

Why has their never been a Black Baldy breed developed. With all the new composite breeds being developed, it makes me wonder why this age old classic has never gotten this designation.

I would think Hereford would be scrambling for developing this breed.

I think that Hereford is leaving a big pot of money on the table by NOT forming a Black Baldie registry. Simmental, Limousin, Maine, Gelbvieh, etc all supplement their income by collecting registration fees on Angus X their breed. One problem though with breeding a black baldie composite is lack of uniformity. You breed an F1 baldie x an F1 baldie and your F2 generation is going to include reds, blacks, all out Hereford markings, mottled face, etc calves and you would even get some all blacks.

Though not a registry, AHA has developed a program called Hereford Verified -- animals eligible that are English bred and originate from either a registered bull or cow.

If it's not a registry, what is it?

Duh!! They don't get a registration number moron!! It's tied to the Certified Hereford Beef program.

Then why mention it in a thread about registries? You already said it wasn't a registry, but you still don't say what it is. Don't you know? BTW, name calling doesn't make you look one bit smarter. :roll:

Didn't mean to tie it to the registry question, I meant for it to be tied to the Black Baldie idea. No Hereford Verified doesn't register Black Baldies, but it is a marketing program tied to Certified Hereford Beef that accepts Black Baldies of English breeding from registered sires or dams. How much more of an answer can I give?

 

[dun]

I wasn't name calling I was pointing out fact.

To mst people referring to someone by the term "moron" is name calling!

 

[dun]

Any breed can register anything they want as far as I'm concerned. The thing that bothers me is when they call them purebreds. To my way of thinking any breed that breeds up with other breeds for any trait selection is cross-breeding. If they want to register them that is fine just DO NOT call them purebreds. So just for giggles lets just call all of cow herds cross-breeds and we'll all be right.

It's symantics! Purebred means it has some other breed in it's genetic composition, fullblood means it's pure. To me that would be a purebred, but obviously not to the wizards that came up with the terms.
I prefer the method that Red Angus use. 1A is pure angus, red or black, 1B is bred up.

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

Some breeds don't designate between fullblood and pureblood. I agree, the terminology seems reverse of what it should be. Does other livestock/dogs use the terminology the same way?

 

[aplusmnt]

When other breeds crossbreed with Angus, they're expanding their gene pool. Yet your links lead to stories about a shrinking gene pool. Doesn't make sense to me. :?: BTW, you need to investigate the Angus gene pool a bit more. It's a lot deeper than you apparently realize.

It might increase the Gene pool of the specific breed Angus is introduced into but when looking at the all cattle and all breeds it would shrink the over all gene pool of all cattle.

 

[redfornow]

I wasn't name calling I was pointing out fact.

To mst people referring to someone by the term "moron" is name calling!

Unless its a fact, then its called "reporting"