Black baldies

[Mahoney Pursley Ranch]

The general opinion is that Herefords are for the most part a gentle breed. My guess is that Angus are less docile than Herefords. My question is then, if you have Angus bulls on Herfords to get Black baldies what will the temperment of the Baldies be?

 

[dun]

The general opinion is that Herefords are for the most part a gentle breed. My guess is that Angus are less docile than Herefords. My question is then, if you have Angus bulls on Herfords to get Black baldies what will the temperment of the Baldies be?

Depends on the teprement of both sides of the cross. One of the Polled Hereford bulls we've used has the most curious calves I've ever seen. If I go walking across the pasture I end up with a committee following me, all made up of his calves. All but one. Her mother is a silly booger that runs off after she calves whenever you go into the pasture. We've used the bull tow years in a row and his calves are just curious. Anohter Polled Herefrod bulls calves could car less. They'll watch you but not follow you around. But as they mature I'm hoping they get as calm and easy going as the first bulls calves. We've used Red Angus bulls that alwasy have calm calves, others that tend to be a little more flighty. I think the genetics for a calm attitude come from either or both side, but if the cow is flighty the calf is going to do what it sees it's mother doing.

dun

 

[Farmhand]

It has been our experience that whatever attitude momma has, her calf will have that same attitude. Agree that both sides contribute to temperament so am thinking that being flighty could be a learned trait from momma.

 

[sidney411]

Agree again. Black baldies are primarily what we raise. It really depends on the attutidude of the momma. We have some of the calmest hereford moms and their calves are the same way. We had one mom that was so crazy it took us 2 years to get her in the pens so we could sell her. Her calves were the same way, they would try their darndest to run you over at any and all chances. That was the only 1 we had like that though.

 

[Scotty]

Never really seen a crazy baldy. Did notice that most of mine are weary.
More than others.


Scotty

 

[docgraybull]

The general opinion is that Herefords are for the most part a gentle breed. My guess is that Angus are less docile than Herefords. My question is then, if you have Angus bulls on Herfords to get Black baldies what will the temperment of the Baldies be?

Also curious as to how the temperament of black baldies would compare to the temperament of Black Herefords? :roll: Probably about the same, I would guess.

 

[Bez]

Black Herefords?

I'll probably open a huge kettle by saying this.

When the so called Black Hereford becomes a breed that is recognized then it will matter.

Something made them black and you can be sure it was not Hereford. Best call them something else.

Until then it does not matter. Not enough of them things to make a hill of beans difference.

If you were fishin' - I bit!

Bez

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

Also curious as to how the temperament of black baldies would compare to the temperament of Black Herefords? Probably about the same, I would guess.

From what I understand, the Black Herefords are 15/16 or 31/32 Hereford and 1/16 or 1/32 angus so I would guess their temperament would more likely be towards the Herefords.

 

[Bez]

Yup - like I said - something made them black. So they are not straight.

Call 'em what you want. Red is Hereford. Black is something else.

Bez

 

[Bez]

Yup - like I said - something made them black. So they are not straight.

Call 'em what you want. Red is Hereford. Black is something else.

Heck, even Cock-A-Poohs breed true!

Or so I am told.

:lol:

Bez

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

Just checked it. They need to be 7/8 Hereford and Homozygous black and apparently they are a recognized breed.

http://www.blackhereford.com/history.html

 

[Bez]

Pardon me?

The American Black Hereford Association is simply a group of folks raising an unrecognized animal. They could call themselfs the Black Baldie Breed if they wanted to. Makes no difference.

In 2002, Black Hereford became a registered trademark with the US Patent and Trademark Office.

In 2003, Black Herefords recieved international breed designation by the National Association of Animal breeders.

Never heard of these guys - I wonder if it helps fog the tale?

So getting a few guys and gals together to form an association constitutes a breed?

Good - you and I will get another 50 or so folks together - all agree to cross zebra and elephant. We will then patent the cross and call our new breed the Elebra? :lol:

Then we will market the hell out of them.

When the World Hereford Council and all country Hereford Associations call it a breed - then I am in.

Until then it is simply a mutt that breeds true.

Sorry my friend - this does not cut it in the business I live in. And it apparently does not cut it in the various Hereford Associations. Not to say it will not someday - but not yet it don't. Probably not in our life time.

Call it a mutt that breeds true - fine. But what has happened is this group of folks has attempted legitimacy by what I believe to be subterfuge. Create enough paper work and create enough twisted leads through associations and then find someone who will recognize it.

Who are these guys? National Association of Animal breeders? They recognize an animal as a breed when the breed associations do not? Some legitimacy.

Market it as the rare breed and make a fortune. Can't argue with their tenacity. I have seen pics on this site - some nice looking animals - no argument.

But, Hereford it ain't.

Don't be fooled by the paper trails - have to admit they build a nice animal, but any org that recognizes it for anything other than what it is - unless it is a recognized Hereford org - is suspect in my mind. And should be in yours.

I wonder if the Angus folks will recognize a Char / Angus or Shorthorn / Angus cross that breeds true? The Silver Angus? The Roan Angus? The Spotted Angus? Bet you and I could make that go in a few generations if we worked at it.

Or how about the Holstien folks - would they recognize a Jersy / Holstein cross that breeds true? A Jerstein? Or would it be Holsey?

Bet those breed orgs would agree with me.

Something made it black and it ain't Hereford.

Look forward to responses - do not get technical on me - I have no knowledge or understanding of epd thingies. Therefore not interested.

:lol:

Bez

 

[txag]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Bravo Bez!!!!

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

So Bez:

Explain to me how you feel that breeds like say the Speckle Park or Murray Grey would be different than the Black Hereford. Basically they are crossbreeds that have been bred for a certain set of attributes. Would you be happier if perhaps they chose another name such as Bez's Black that did not contain the Hereford name. Would that in your mind improve the legitimacy of the breed? I look at the black Simm's and Lim's that have showed up in the past few years. I've even seen Black Belgian Blues advertised. I've seen Shorthorns that are black and white as well. Black Salers, Blach Gelbviehs. How is that Herefords Would be excluded from being turned black. Not that I really care that much. Just curious as to your logic. :?:

 

[Bez]

Perhaps I am a simpleton - and I am sure many would agree - But ...

Explain to me how you feel that breeds like say the Speckle Park or Murray Grey would be different than the Black Hereford.

They went through a breed selection process of their own and did not try to piggy back onto a known breed for their legitimacy. They did it on their own. Have no probs with that at all. I have seen thses animals and I like them - but they did not call themselves Spotted Angus or Grey Angus did they?

Would you be happier if perhaps they chose another name such as Bez's Black that did not contain the Hereford name.

Hmm ... quite an honour and I am sure many would agree I do not deserve it! :lol:

I look at the black Simm's and Lim's that have showed up in the past few years.

As I said - if the specific breed organization recognizez it - I have no complaint.

I've even seen Black Belgian Blues advertised.

Could be true - are they recognized by their original organizations? I honestly do not know.

Believe it or not, I went through all of these arguments with myself before I wrote what I did.

How is that Herefords Would be excluded from being turned black.

I did not say that was the case - if someone wants to turn them black - AND THEN GET THEM RECONIZED by the World Hereford Council and the country orgs - do it. Bet it takes longer than I live. Then again I could be wrong.

As it stands right now they are attempting through all the means available to get their "breed" recognized. Fair enough. When it is recognized by the WHC - as I said previously - then I am in. Until then stop calling it a Hereford. It is a mutt that breeds true.

Using legaleze and twisting things and attempting to ride the wave that was created by the Hereford is smart marketing - but not legitimate - by using these other organizations it tells me the WHC does not recognize them - and probably will not.

Using these methods will potentially fool inexperienced people to buy something thinking it is something else. By creating a fog to generate misunderstanding it also places the reputation of an entire breed at risk. This is in itself completely unacceptable and very, very reckless. No responsible person would want that. It is subterfuge of the worst kind in my opinion - plain and simple.

Not that I really care that much. Just curious as to your logic.

Not so sure I can be considered logical - for the present - the entire world recognizes the Hereford is a red animal.

I am sure my PM will ring off the hook now! 8)

Stay well,

Bez

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

So, basically, if I understand you correctly, its the name that you are having problems with. Is that correct?

 

[Bez]

No, I have a huge problem with someone telling people they are raising Black Herefords and that they are a breed and that they are legit!

There are huge reputational risks in announcing a breed to the world - especially if they are piggy backing onto an already recognized breed.

HUGE! HUGE! HUGE!

And if all falls down - MY BREED MAY TAKE A HIT. That is not only improper, it is unethical, irresponsible and immoral in my opinion.

Once all things have been done to breed standard and recognized to breed standard - I cannot complain. The governing body for that recognized breed has spoken and is ready to stand up and take what ever heat or accolades the new branch on the family tree has to offer.

As it stands right now there are a group of about 15 people out there announcing to the world there is a new Hereford on the block.

TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE. :stop: :stop:

THe last thing any breed needs is a potential problem stemming from 15 people trying to market an animal under a false flag.

Wanna' raise Highland X Holstein and call them a short haired Black Highland?

Cows are now calling me - I will check back in an hour or two.

8)

Bez

 

[Campground Cattle]

Hey Bez I have some of them Black Herefords. Hereford Bull on Brangus cows. If I can find some double a batteries to take some pictures. Maybe those 15 goobers would give me papers on them. As of now all the papers they have is toliet paper, kinda feel the same way about them white faced Angus.l

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

No, I have a huge problem with someone telling people they are raising Black Herefords and that they are a breed and that they are legit!

There are huge reputational risks in announcing a breed to the world - especially if they are piggy backing onto an already recognized breed.

HUGE! HUGE! HUGE!

And if all falls down - MY BREED MAY TAKE A HIT. That is not only improper, it is unethical, irresponsible and immoral in my opinion.

Once all things have been done to breed standard and recognized to breed standard - I cannot complain. The governing body for that recognized breed has spoken and is ready to stand up and take what ever heat or accolades the new branch on the family tree has to offer.

As it stands right now there are a group of about 15 people out there announcing to the world there is a new Hereford on the block.

TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE. :stop: :stop:

THe last thing any breed needs is a potential problem stemming from 15 people trying to market an animal under a false flag.

Wanna' raise Highland X Holstein and call them a short haired Black Highland?

Cows are now calling me - I will check back in an hour or two.

8)

Bez

Boy that's a long answer for what is basically a yes or no question. Basically it sounds to me like what you are saying is that you resent them being called 'Herefords'. For myself as someone who raises commercial cattle, I can see that having a homozygous black whiteface animal would add to my breeding options. If this is the case, I think that if I was interested in raising Angus type cattle, I can make whatever I want if I have Red Angus cows. If I want Black Baldy looking calves, I take one of these homozygous black herefords and i get Black Baldies off my Red Angus cows. I can cross them to Red Herefords if I want Red Baldies. I can cross them to Black Angus and I get Black Angus calves or I can stick to Red Angus and have Red Angus calves. I see that this adds me one more option to produce what the fickle market may be asking for in my area and I don't have to change my whole herd to do it. I believe that there was a time that Black Angus was the preferred color, but look how far those Red Angus have come. Maybe this Black Hereford thing is the start of something big. Maybe you should get in while you still can. Imagine it could be 'Bez's Black Hereford' ranch not to mention it would add almost 7% to their membership. You could be their first Canadian member blazing a path for all future Black Hereford breeders in Canada. A true pioneer. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Bez]

Thanks for extending me the opportunity to be a pioneer.

I will leave it to others - too tired to think about it any more.

bb