Big Momma Cows

[CattleMan1920]

So if I take that 8 wt. weanling to be fed how many days will it be on feed before harvest and how will it grade? Most calves will be grown out before they go into a feed yard for finish. Will those calves fit into these programs? Do you have a firm grasp on what it takes to produce an animal that meets CAB specifications at harvest?

So you are telling me that I should shoot for 4-5 weights? It wouldn't be hard to do, just switch over to high CED, low BW bulls that are off the charts on $EN and DMI. They will produce that little weanling like clockwork.

 

[mwj]

So if I take that 8 wt. weanling to be fed how many days will it be on feed before harvest and how will it grade? Most calves will be grown out before they go into a feed yard for finish. Will those calves fit into these programs? Do you have a firm grasp on what it takes to produce an animal that meets CAB specifications at harvest?

So you are telling me that I should shoot for 4-5 weights? It wouldn't be hard to do, just switch over to high CED, low BW bulls that are off the charts on $EN and DMI. They will produce that little weanling like clockwork.

I did not ''tell'' you anything. I asked ''?'' some valid questions about your kind of cattle. If you are on this board to sell your program you need to answer real life questions. Your market is to the people that put cattle on the hook to make a living, and they could care less about how tame your cattle are when you are handling them to breed.

 

[CattleMan1920]

So if I take that 8 wt. weanling to be fed how many days will it be on feed before harvest and how will it grade? Most calves will be grown out before they go into a feed yard for finish. Will those calves fit into these programs? Do you have a firm grasp on what it takes to produce an animal that meets CAB specifications at harvest?

So you are telling me that I should shoot for 4-5 weights? It wouldn't be hard to do, just switch over to high CED, low BW bulls that are off the charts on $EN and DMI. They will produce that little weanling like clockwork.

I did not ''tell'' you anything. I asked ''?'' some valid questions about your kind of cattle. If you are on this board to sell your program you need to answer real life questions. Your market is to the people that put cattle on the hook to make a living, and they could care less about how tame your cattle are when you are handling them to breed.

I've always seen wild cattle, especially bulls, get culled quickly. I would have to disagree with you on the tameness. Crazy bulls always sell low at auction.

 

[Silver]

I still need some explanation on how a 1100-1200 pound cow with minimal inputs, grass and hay only is going to raise a 700-800 pound weanling? She would be a superstar if so, that's weaning almost 70% of her body weight! I can see 4 and 5 weights, but not 7-8's. Which means you have a lot more cattle going to reach the same amount of weight on the trailer.

I can sell you some if you'd like. They're not black though.
Edit: And they are in the 12-1400 lbs range, so maybe don't quite qualify anyway lol

 

[kentuckyguy]

I am starting to also lead towards a bigger cow that still keeps easy. Are bigger framed cows really stand out year after year on ease of calving and just not giving us any problems.

Most of our bigger cows also hold their condition year round also. This old girls has weaned a lot of calves (14 I think) and stays this size year round.

 

[CattleMan1920]

She's a good one! She's in great shape for 14 calves. I would say big calves come out of her like a slip and slide. :clap:

 

[gcreekrch]

The quest is for carcass quality. If you are sending out steers that rank in the top 10% of the Angus breed for all major carcass traits, they gain fast on milk and grass alone and are out the door at 205-230 days as 7 or 8 weights. What is not to like? There have to be purebred Angus producers out west and up north that are pulling this very scenario off and getting paid handsomely. It sounds like a good business plan to me.

I still need some explanation on how a 1100-1200 pound cow with minimal inputs, grass and hay only is going to raise a 700-800 pound weanling? She would be a superstar if so, that's weaning almost 70% of her body weight! I can see 4 and 5 weights, but not 7-8's. Which means you have a lot more cattle going to reach the same amount of weight on the trailer.

Take an 1800 pound cow, weaning that 700 pounder is not the same feat. Am I right or wrong? If weaning weights don't matter, why do people focus so much on them? I don't see how you are a serious producer if you ignore them.

You don't get it do you?

My cow herd makes a profit per cow...…… If I want to increase weaning weights, it costs money and work to do that.

Back in the late 70's and early 80's, banks encouraged cattle producers to raise bigger calves to cover the horrendous interest rates being charged then. What they forgot to equate was the cost of raising those big calves. Again, bigger weaning weights cost money and time, lots of us are quite happy to be lazy and cheap...…...and prosperous.

I also have guys that buy my bulls that I am done with. I sold several 5 year olds in the past 2 years for $3000 a pop. Semen tested of course but used bulls at that. I guess others don't mind raising 500 lb calves either.

You still haven't told me what specifically was wrong with the management your Daddy and Grandaddy had that you feel the need to join and market other's genetics.

 

[jehosofat]

The quest is for carcass quality. If you are sending out steers that rank in the top 10% of the Angus breed for all major carcass traits, they gain fast on milk and grass alone and are out the door at 205-230 days as 7 or 8 weights. What is not to like? There have to be purebred Angus producers out west and up north that are pulling this very scenario off and getting paid handsomely. It sounds like a good business plan to me.

I still need some explanation on how a 1100-1200 pound cow with minimal inputs, grass and hay only is going to raise a 700-800 pound weanling? She would be a superstar if so, that's weaning almost 70% of her body weight! I can see 4 and 5 weights, but not 7-8's. Which means you have a lot more cattle going to reach the same amount of weight on the trailer.

Take an 1800 pound cow, weaning that 700 pounder is not the same feat. Am I right or wrong? If weaning weights don't matter, why do people focus so much on them? I don't see how you are a serious producer if you ignore them.

You don't get it do you?

My cow herd makes a profit per cow...…… If I want to increase weaning weights, it costs money and work to do that.

Back in the late 70's and early 80's, banks encouraged cattle producers to raise bigger calves to cover the horrendous interest rates being charged then. What they forgot to equate was the cost of raising those big calves. Again, bigger weaning weights cost money and time, lots of us are quite happy to be lazy and cheap...…...and prosperous.

I also have guys that buy my bulls that I am done with. I sold several 5 year olds in the past 2 years for $3000 a pop. Semen tested of course but used bulls at that. I guess others don't mind raising 500 lb calves either.

You still haven't told me what specifically was wrong with the management your Daddy and Grandaddy had that you feel the need to join and market other's genetics.

That's pretty funny, right there. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Bright Raven]

My cow herd makes a profit per cow...…… If I want to increase weaning weights, it costs money and work to do that.

Back in the late 70's and early 80's, banks encouraged cattle producers to raise bigger calves to cover the horrendous interest rates being charged then. What they forgot to equate was the cost of raising those big calves. Again, bigger weaning weights cost money and time, lots of us are quite happy to be lazy and cheap...…...and prosperous.

I also have guys that buy my bulls that I am done with. I sold several 5 year olds in the past 2 years for $3000 a pop. Semen tested of course but used bulls at that. I guess others don't mind raising 500 lb calves either.

You still haven't told me what specifically was wrong with the management your Daddy and Grandaddy had that you feel the need to join and market other's genetics.

Dave

Step out of your commercial shoes and take a look from the seedstock producer's perspective. The seedstock producer has to serve the markets available to him. He doesn't have the luxury of telling the buyer what kind of bull he needs. Maybe 500 pound weaning weights make more money but if the market a seedstock producer is serving wants 700 pound weaning weights, then you better have them!

I am already being asked for the registration numbers on my bull calves. Those prospective buyers are already picking the bulls with the best WW and YW numbers.

That is their choice and it is not a surprise. I do the same thing when I look for semen. I pick the bulls with the best WW and YW numbers.

I am going to agree with Branded. There is a reason bull buyers want the bulls with good WW and YW numbers - they want bigger calves at weaning. Even if it means they are not understanding that those higher weaning weights are costing them money. As a seedstock producer, you don't tell the buyer "what he wants"!!!

 

[CattleMan1920]

You still haven't told me what specifically was wrong with the management your Daddy and Grandaddy had that you feel the need to join and market other's genetics.

"Grandaddy" raised Charolais, didn't have a clue about genetics or beef quality, just focused on having calves to sell. "Daddy" understood quickly that Angus were superior beef cattle, but was too overly focused on phenotype. "Me" I understand genetics is the name of the game, I'm obsessed with improvement, I eat, sleep, and breathe Angus, I use every bit of technology I can from biometric collars and DNA testing to drones to monitor calving. You could say that "Granddaddy and Daddy" would be very lost in my world.

 

[Dave]

I would say that the point is that in the world we live in today cattle in your area might be in my area next week. Certainly the genetics from one of yours might show up here. Given that understanding of how cattle move today, would your cattle thrive here? I am certain the cattle from here would thrive in your area. They would think they died and went to heaven. Your cattle might think they went the other way. Think about it. You are not just raising cattle that work in your area. You should be raising cattle that will work where they end up. In 2014 and again in 2015 I sent a potload of bred heifers to eastern Nebraska. It is certainly within the realm of possibility that some of those cows could end up in your neighborhood.

 

[gcreekrch]

My cow herd makes a profit per cow...…… If I want to increase weaning weights, it costs money and work to do that.

Back in the late 70's and early 80's, banks encouraged cattle producers to raise bigger calves to cover the horrendous interest rates being charged then. What they forgot to equate was the cost of raising those big calves. Again, bigger weaning weights cost money and time, lots of us are quite happy to be lazy and cheap...…...and prosperous.

I also have guys that buy my bulls that I am done with. I sold several 5 year olds in the past 2 years for $3000 a pop. Semen tested of course but used bulls at that. I guess others don't mind raising 500 lb calves either.

You still haven't told me what specifically was wrong with the management your Daddy and Grandaddy had that you feel the need to join and market other's genetics.

Dave

Step out of your commercial shoes and take a look from the seedstock producer's perspective. The seedstock producer has to serve the markets available to him. He doesn't have the luxury of telling the buyer what kind of bull he needs. Maybe 500 pound weaning weights make more money but if the market a seedstock producer is serving wants 700 pound weaning weights, then you better have them!

I am already being asked for the registration numbers on my bull calves. Those prospective buyers are already picking the bulls with the best WW and YW numbers.

That is their choice and it is not a surprise. I do the same thing when I look for semen. I pick the bulls with the best WW and YW numbers.

I am going to agree with Branded. There is a reason bull buyers want the bulls with good WW and YW numbers - they want bigger calves at weaning. Even if it means they are not understanding that those higher weaning weights are costing them money. As a seedstock producer, you don't tell the buyer "what he wants"!!!

Ron, I would hazard to guess that you could take nearly any one of my bulls, put them on cows that are in yours or Branded's environment and wean them at 8 months and you would have 700 to 800 lb calves.

I am not prepared to spend the money on buying that environment to prove it. If I calved earlier and weaned later, I know I could raise 650 lb calves here. Some people do. I watch them spending money to do it that makes little sense to me for their bottom line.

To quote another's saying, "With time, perseverance and patience, you can stretch a cat's azz over a barrel."

Each to his own, I will still concentrate on dollars per cow rather that pounds weaned.

 

[Nesikep]

If two bulls are identical in all other aspects than WW/YW, then I don't think anyone would argue which bull you'd want to use.. However, that's never going to be the case. If you had 2 cows that differed only in frame size and raised the same calves, I don't think anyone would choose the 2000 lb cow over the 1500 lb cow.
Around here, if prices for 5wts are $2.25/lb and the prices for 7wts are $1.75/lb, you're putting on 200 lbs of weight for only $100 bucks more in your pocket, so the smaller cows producing 5wts are in fact more profitable.. There are SOOOO many factors to this.. I don't think a 1000 lb cow is something I will ever aspire to have though

These two full sisters are about what I like for size.. the sister on the left doesn't look as good, but makes the thicker calves, sister on the right is prettier, her calves are less meaty but bigger in frame and heavier. She raised 2 calves last year and they were about 900-1000 lbs total, born Apr 1st or so, Sold in October.

 

[WinterSpringsFarm]

I've been following along here for 19 pages. All I really want to know is. Branded, have you ever figured up what your NET profit per calf is? I mean really get down and dirty with all the inputs and see where you come out at. You might be in shock after its all said and done.

Also curious if Ron has as well.

I'm a seed stock producer, maybe not as far along in my program as these guys I've mentioned. But there is no way I could make some of these inputs pay. Lets face it, as much as we may want to be we aren't Werning, or Hartmans, or SAV, or Griswolds.

 

[Bright Raven]

I see an obvious need to define my issue.

Let's pass over the input issue for a moment.

What I am saying is that you have to serve the buyers who buy your bulls. I raise registered Simmentals. My buyers are looking for registered Simmental bulls. The first thing most want when I am contacted or the first thing they do when a bull is offered up for sale.......Is run his numbers through the ASA website. The numbers they focus on are CE, WW and YW. They are looking for bulls that scored in the upper percentile for the breed in those 3 categories.

My point is this - they are searching for bulls that will produce heavy calves at weaning - as CB calls them "scale mashing" weaners.

Whether they are right or wrong is their business. BUT I KNOW WHAT THEY WANT! They want 6 to 7 weights at weaning. Dave, I am not addressing your issue that they could realize more profit by targeting 500 pound weaners versus 600 and near 800 pound weaners, to me that is their business.

If I produce bulls that cannot wean big calves, I will not sell bulls as easily as I do.

The input issue is a separate issue.

 

[plumber_greg]

Did anyone on this thread have angus cattle in the late 70s or early 80s?
I did, and I remember the grand champion bull at Denver one year, I wish I could remember the bulls name for reference, but Bill is 6'4" tall and you could just see his eyes in the picture when he stood behind him.
Had some heifers at my house from there, and they were awful!!!!!
Chasing size, rising weaning weights, and YW, will put the breed right back there.
Seedstoch producers, do your breed a favor. Preach moderation, or in 10 years, you'll be bragging how your cattle can reduce overall herd size.
I've seen it all before, JMHO. GS

 

[plumber_greg]

Did anyone on this thread have angus cattle in the late 70s or early 80s?
I did, and I remember the grand champion bull at Denver one year, I wish I could remember the bulls name for reference, but Bill is 6'4" tall and you could just see his eyes in the picture when he stood behind him.
Had some heifers at my house from there, and they were awful!!!!!
Chasing size, rising weaning weights, and YW, will put the breed right back there.
Seedstoch producers, do your breed a favor. Preach moderation, or in 10 years, you'll be bragging how your cattle can reduce overall herd size.
I've seen it all before, JMHO. GS

 

[Bright Raven]

Did anyone on this thread have angus cattle in the late 70s or early 80s?
I did, and I remember the grand champion bull at Denver one year, I wish I could remember the bulls name for reference, but Bill is 6'4" tall and you could just see his eyes in the picture when he stood behind him.
Had some heifers at my house from there, and they were awful!!!!!
Chasing size, rising weaning weights, and YW, will put the breed right back there.
Seedstoch producers, do your breed a favor. Preach moderation, or in 10 years, you'll be bragging how your cattle can reduce overall herd size.
I've seen it all before, JMHO. GS

I am a Simmental producer. The Modern American Simmental has been bred for moderation in several traits including size, calving ease, milk production, etc. I support that. In fact, the Modern American Simmental is probably more moderate at this stage than the Angus breed.

Not to be misconstrued, I am not an advocate for giant cattle and over-conditioning but I do know that my bull buyers do a very nice job screening for bulls whose EPDs suggest their calves will be in the upper percentile for WW.

 

[gcreekrch]

You still haven't told me what specifically was wrong with the management your Daddy and Grandaddy had that you feel the need to join and market other's genetics.

"Grandaddy" raised Charolais, didn't have a clue about genetics or beef quality, just focused on having calves to sell. "Daddy" understood quickly that Angus were superior beef cattle, but was too overly focused on phenotype. "Me" I understand genetics is the name of the game, I'm obsessed with improvement, I eat, sleep, and breathe Angus, I use every bit of technology I can from biometric collars and DNA testing to drones to monitor calving. You could say that "Granddaddy and Daddy" would be very lost in my world.

Thank you.

I wouldn't be too hard on your predecessors, they saw some tough times that gave you the opportunity you have now.

As someoneone mentioned earlier, after all your inputs technological to practical to feed to genetics. How is your bottom line?

 

[Ebenezer]

I am starting to also lead towards a bigger cow that still keeps easy. Are bigger framed cows really stand out year after year on ease of calving and just not giving us any problems.

Most of our bigger cows also hold their condition year round also. This old girls has weaned a lot of calves (14 I think) and stays this size year round.

What does she weigh? I'll guess 1450.