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Well, they actually do have the USDA reports on their website. But that one doesn't show any bottle calves on it from yesterday.
Another..."last" update.
- Thread starter Warren Allison
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kenny thomas
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So we agree that the reports nor my memory are either always correct. Lol
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Headed down in the morning, We are going to help Lisa and Joe gather up those 200 calves and load the, then carry them over to their place. Gonna move the Brangus bull and the Corr heifers that are in the old dove field, over to the Kudzu place. Once they are off, Scott has a small tractor with a PTO tiller and he is gonna till up and sow some rabbit food plots on it. I am taking an 8 yr old I have finished, down with me. Joe and Lisa want to buy him, so I am gonna take him tomorrow, and let them keep him for 30 days, to make sure he is gonna work out for them. They have 4 yr old filly, that they have started well. She has a hell of a handle on her. She has no spook in her at all. They want me to take her back and start her on some cattle work. I told them I would ride her tomorrow when we gathered their calves. No better way to evaluate one than in a low-pressure situation like this. Just trail after a bunch of very docile calves. A horse doesn't have to have a lot of "cow" in him to do that. She is Doc Bar and Peppy San Badger on top, Highbrow Hickory and Dual Pep on bottom, so there is little doubt she will have good cow sense. She is a little thing 14.2, so she won't be a header or pasture roper, but she ought to be a cutting and working cow horse fool.
I turned down 2 offers to go fishing this weened...something I promised myself I was going to do a lot this year. My cardiologist insisted that I do it! But I enjoy a day like tomorrow will be more than anything. No stress, no hard work or lifting anything heavy.... just working with excellent horses, and excellent horsemen( and woman). Like that Old Milwaukee beer commercial used to say" It just doesn't get any better than this!"
I turned down 2 offers to go fishing this weened...something I promised myself I was going to do a lot this year. My cardiologist insisted that I do it! But I enjoy a day like tomorrow will be more than anything. No stress, no hard work or lifting anything heavy.... just working with excellent horses, and excellent horsemen( and woman). Like that Old Milwaukee beer commercial used to say" It just doesn't get any better than this!"
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Well, this weekend was a lot of fun. Got there and first thing we did was move Scott's horses back to his place and put them back in their pasture. Then we drove the Brangus bull and the 5 Corr cows (2 with calves) back over to the Kudzu place. I rode that mare they wanted me to take home and start her cow horse training, and Joe rode the horse I have just finished that they want to buy. I took it down there with the intention of leaving it with them for 30 days to try out and make sure he was what they wanted, but when we caried the last load of their calves to their place, Joe told me to wait there a second, and he went in the house and brought me the dead presidents that I was asking for him! 
And as usual, the next day I had a little seller's remorse for a while. Always do when I sell a good one like that.
Anyway, after we moved the bull and cows over, and got the horses out, we opened the gate between the cotton field and the old dove field and gathered those 220 calves out of the last 100 acre field they were in, and drove them to the dove field where the corral is. That little mare they want me to finish, was a pleasure to ride! She seems eager to please..is curious about every new thing you show her. Has a great attitude, and not an ounce of quit in her. Joe and Lisa did a great job starting this filly, I rode her in a bosal, and she responds well to leg and seat cues. Only time I actually used the reins, was to lift them a bit when I asked her to back. Had one of the Corr cows with a calf challenge her a little when we were moving them out and she just got down, pinned her ears back, and backed the cow off and sent her the way we wanted to go, like she was a seasoned cutting horse. But, she has 4 of the greats in the cutting horse world in her pedigree, so this was no surprise. Took her to a CMSA practice yesterday, and it took me 2 laps around the arena, til I could shoot off her like she was an old pro at it. Gonna take her to team roping practice Tuesday, and start teaching her to score and rate. Wen the ole lady gets home today, I am going to get her to drive the 4 wheeler and pull the heeling dummy, and I will get her used to me throwing a rope off of her. I think this one is going to be easy to finish, she is just the type that you don't want to push too early and make a mistake with her. That is the key when you have one as smart as this gal is. Right now she has no fear, no spook, and no hesitancy about her at all.
Looks like we have 40 or more April calves already. I think we gonna just end up with less than 20 left to calve in May. Clay's boss told me he'd give $2.50 a pound for all the black polled steers at weaning, and that is what I an gonna do. Wish now I hadn't told the man he could buy all the heifers for $850. Mike would give me $2.25 a pound for them, too. Maybe the dude will back out, or not want all of them, once the time comes in July to start the weaning. The handful of non-black calves we will end up with, we can just take to the local sale. Won't be any more like that with the next crop, and we will just sell all of them next year to Clay's boss...steers and heifers.
It didn't take an hour to move the horses and the cattle out of the dove field, and herd Joe and Lisa's calves in to it. We spent several hours though, herding them into the arena, then putting about 40 at a time in the alley and loading them on to the trailers, and carrying them to Joe and Lisa's place I used the filly for this, and she was wonderful! We had the last load in the corral waiting on the trailer to get back, when Pedro rolled up to get his corral panels. He brought his Bobcat to load them with. They are made of 3 and 1/2" drill pipe, and are 7'6" tall by 12' long. No way can they be picked up or moved by hand. While he had it there, he loaded Joe's protein tubs and mineral feeders for him on a flat bed trailer. I got home way before dark Saturday.
Right now, I am pretty danged happy. Got the Corr operation including, selling the calves, on auto pilot. And I have a very smart and talented mare to work on this summer. Clay went and picked up those red Charolais bred heifers for himself and my client last week, so as of right now, I have filled all the orders I have. However, Scott was just talking out loud Saturday, and said " Man, what do you think if I don't plant anything next year, and let's just buy about 200 more Corrs to keep on that 400 acres of row crop land?" So I am thinking about it.... Damn it!!
And as usual, the next day I had a little seller's remorse for a while. Always do when I sell a good one like that.Anyway, after we moved the bull and cows over, and got the horses out, we opened the gate between the cotton field and the old dove field and gathered those 220 calves out of the last 100 acre field they were in, and drove them to the dove field where the corral is. That little mare they want me to finish, was a pleasure to ride! She seems eager to please..is curious about every new thing you show her. Has a great attitude, and not an ounce of quit in her. Joe and Lisa did a great job starting this filly, I rode her in a bosal, and she responds well to leg and seat cues. Only time I actually used the reins, was to lift them a bit when I asked her to back. Had one of the Corr cows with a calf challenge her a little when we were moving them out and she just got down, pinned her ears back, and backed the cow off and sent her the way we wanted to go, like she was a seasoned cutting horse. But, she has 4 of the greats in the cutting horse world in her pedigree, so this was no surprise. Took her to a CMSA practice yesterday, and it took me 2 laps around the arena, til I could shoot off her like she was an old pro at it. Gonna take her to team roping practice Tuesday, and start teaching her to score and rate. Wen the ole lady gets home today, I am going to get her to drive the 4 wheeler and pull the heeling dummy, and I will get her used to me throwing a rope off of her. I think this one is going to be easy to finish, she is just the type that you don't want to push too early and make a mistake with her. That is the key when you have one as smart as this gal is. Right now she has no fear, no spook, and no hesitancy about her at all.
Looks like we have 40 or more April calves already. I think we gonna just end up with less than 20 left to calve in May. Clay's boss told me he'd give $2.50 a pound for all the black polled steers at weaning, and that is what I an gonna do. Wish now I hadn't told the man he could buy all the heifers for $850. Mike would give me $2.25 a pound for them, too. Maybe the dude will back out, or not want all of them, once the time comes in July to start the weaning. The handful of non-black calves we will end up with, we can just take to the local sale. Won't be any more like that with the next crop, and we will just sell all of them next year to Clay's boss...steers and heifers.
It didn't take an hour to move the horses and the cattle out of the dove field, and herd Joe and Lisa's calves in to it. We spent several hours though, herding them into the arena, then putting about 40 at a time in the alley and loading them on to the trailers, and carrying them to Joe and Lisa's place I used the filly for this, and she was wonderful! We had the last load in the corral waiting on the trailer to get back, when Pedro rolled up to get his corral panels. He brought his Bobcat to load them with. They are made of 3 and 1/2" drill pipe, and are 7'6" tall by 12' long. No way can they be picked up or moved by hand. While he had it there, he loaded Joe's protein tubs and mineral feeders for him on a flat bed trailer. I got home way before dark Saturday.
Right now, I am pretty danged happy. Got the Corr operation including, selling the calves, on auto pilot. And I have a very smart and talented mare to work on this summer. Clay went and picked up those red Charolais bred heifers for himself and my client last week, so as of right now, I have filled all the orders I have. However, Scott was just talking out loud Saturday, and said " Man, what do you think if I don't plant anything next year, and let's just buy about 200 more Corrs to keep on that 400 acres of row crop land?" So I am thinking about it.... Damn it!!
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One day last week.. (I think it was chicken liver day, so Wednesday)... I went to our local diner to eat, and Clay was there with his boss and 2 of their hands. I had told Clay the week. before what Scott had said about getting the 200 more Corrs and not plant the 400 acres across the road in crops anymore. Clay's boss told me: " Heck, I will send you up to 400 cows.... and my bulls when it is time to breed..... and I will give y'all $1200 for the steer calves and $1000 for the heifers at weaning". I told him 300 acres was already planted in corn, beans and peanuts, and Scott would plant cotton in the last 100 mid-May, so it would be 2025 before we could get it all converted to pasture. He offered this, because he took over half of the 400 acre pasture he has his 400 cows in, and planted corn. He wants to quit, or cut down on, sending his calves to the Oklahoma lot to finish.
I called Scot and we talked about it, and we gonna try it. He is sowing Bahia and Tift 85 on the land he was about to plant in cotton this week. He qualifies for the program that pays for seed and fertilizer to convert row crop land to pasture. As well as the program that pays for cross fencing. Now that he wont be running combines etc, on it, we will cut each 100 acre field to two 50 acre pastures. With the market right now, we'd get about $1500 for our steers and about $1100- $1200 for the heifers. Mike has already offered $2.50 a pound for our steers and $2.25 for our heifers, so we'd be giving up $100-$200 for heifers and $300 for steers over buying our own cows, BUT.... I don't have to locate, buy, and transport 200 more Corr cows at about $100k or more. Plus, chances are they'd already be bred to God knows what, and we'd have to calve them out, then breed them to our bulls. This evening I am going over there, and we gonna sort out 50-60 heavy breds, and I am carrying them down to our place this week. That will give me 171-181 Corrs on the Kudzu place. Could probably do a few more , but don't want to over graze it. Later in the summer, we will get 50 more for the old cotton field, and get 50 more each time he harvests the other 100 acre bean, corn and peanut fields. Eventually ending up with 250-260 of that man's cows, plus our 121, and still will have no inputs other than salt and minerals. Ga right now is running a 6.75" surplus rainfall for the year. but Scott's row crop fields have irrigation systems. And, push comes to shove, we still have 15 acres of grass between Gail's pasture and the orchard, and over 50 acres in the old dove field ( thigh deep in oats and barley right now). I now have nothing in those 121 Corrs, and have that $99k in the account from selling the Plummer pairs that I won't have to use to buy 200 Corr cows. Scott could sell his combines and pickers, etc. if he wanted to, but will probably custom harvest for other farmers, to give Andrew something to do. When it is time to wean the calves, Mike will send Clay and some of his crew down to get them, and to bring more cows, deliver and pick up the bulls, etc. We won't be moving the Kudzu herd to the row crop land this year in November when quail and rabbit season opens, but we can still hunt it with them on it. We mostly did this to eat up Scott's row crop residue each year anyway. And. in some years we have had a Corr cow that took exception to a bird dog or beagle in the pasture!
So, Scott and I decided at our age and health, this is the best course of action for us. Of course, this is all predicated on today's market, and I am sure if the prices ever dropped to the $1.50/lb we were averaging on the calves 4 years ago, he would want to re-negotiate both deals, but that's ok too. Matter of fact, will probably re-visit it each year. Back then when the 500 lb steers only brought $750 each, the cows were only costing $250-$300. It is all sheer profit other than a few dollars a head for salt/minerals. Even if these calves dropped to $500 each at weaning.
We came to another decision, too. We are not gonna use those 1/2 Brahma to build Zeke a herd. We gonna sell them as open replacement heifers each year and deposit it in his trust account. Clay's boss gave him his own pen, and he has that Fleck/Braun heifer he got from us over there, eating that rapid-growth, frame-building mix that Mike feeds all of his on, from weaning for 4 months, then he sends them to the feed lot in Ok. Clay wil take those 20 Black Simm/Chi-angus heifers there in July when he picks them up at weaning. and that is where he will put those 3 red Char calves and the calves from his other 5 cows when they wean. We gonna let him take these six 1/2 Brahmas over there too, when it is time to wean. Then sell them once they reach a year to 14 months. Next year and the rest of the years, there will be just 5, unless we get another 1/2 Br x 1/2 dairy heifer for Gail to raise each year. But at 5 a year, should be able to grow Zeke's account by $10k each year. We will have a little inputs with these each year ( like vaccinations and worming, etc. We will want to make sure they have everything a buyer would want them to have, and be able to show written proof of what and when we gave them these things. Helps with the price.
So all in all, we have things set to where us two old farts can still be doing this a lot longer. Nothing for us to do but band and tag calves once a month this way. And Scott won't even have to do that if he doesn't want to. Clay and his co-workers, and/or Joe and Lisa, will be all the help I would need for this. The occasional fencing repair, etc,, Scott can handle that with Zeke and Andrew to help him easily.
I feel a LOT better now than I have since I had all of that heart trouble in 2022, ( and Scott's health problems) about staying involved with the cattle business. This was a long one, but from now on there won't be much for me to put on these "updates".
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We sorted out 55 heavy breds yesterday, I am carrying 54 down there Friday. One calved this morning, and I won't carry that pair. Don't seem right to me to carry a calf he already has, and him pay me $1200 to get it back in 6 mos. Though Mike would have been ok with it. Gonna get there early morning unload them, then Clay is headed back with his trailer, and I am going to head on down to that Blackwater sale. Check out these 3-N-1 pairs they are selling.
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Well, Scott got the Tifton 85 sprigged about 10 days ago, about 50 of the 100 acres. This fall we will plant Bulldog 505 alfalfa in it, too. The other 50 acres he sowed in Argentina and Pensacola Bahia, and clover. They have had 3 or 4 good heavy rains down there, and both stands are doing great, Soil test came back and all it really needed was a little N. The PH was good for bermuda and bahia, but a tad low for the Alfalfa. Needed to get it from 6.5 to 6.7 before we plant it. This was a peanut field last year.
This will be interesting because I have always said that the reason are program works so well, is because there are no inputs with the Corr cows. We don't fertilize the Kudzu place, don't mow it..... zero inputs other than mineral salt. Anything even remotely resembling grass is a few clearings with Johnson Grass and Broome Sage in it. I have said that I don't believe the Corr program would, or could, do any better if we had those cows on well groomed, fertilized, weed-free pasture, and fed them hay supplements, etc. I guess we will see this next year. Still wont fool with vaccinating, worming, etc, and this seed and fertilizer was paid by a grant. Still, we are keeping up with the costs, see if we get bigger and better calves off of these bermuda and bahia pastures, and if so, calculate how much it costs us to get bigger or better. If the rains are good to us and the grass grows like we expect, about July we will bring about 50 more of CLay's boss's Corrs down and put them on it.
30-something of those 54 I brought down last week have calved already. All of my 121 have, too. Well, 118. Three of them were yearling heifers when I got them in January,, and they have just now been bred to my Brangus bull. We are pretty well sitting on autopilot right now. I won't have to go down there and do anything til Memorial weekend when we tag and band the May calves. Gonna be a lot with those 50 extra , but Clay will come down and bring another of his boss's cowboys down with him to help. July 4th weekend, we will wean off the January calves for Clay's boss to buy. And will send those 2 bulls back to Scott's brother, and get our 1/2 Gurs-Herf x 1/2 Gyr heifer and bring it back. Then it and Gail's two will go back with Clay and go into his lot that he has at his boss's place. There, they gonna grow on sorghum silage, spent mash from the Buch plant, chicken litter and cotton seed and trash. Clay picks up those 20 Black Simm x ChiAngus heifers in July too, and they going in his lot as well. They will stay there like our half-Brahmas will for about 9 months til it is time to breed them,
@Mark Reynolds , I was reading up on Bulldog 505 the other day, and the article talked about how ( I forget his name) down in Tifton developed it and another strain of warm-weather alfalfa, but didn't say what it was called. Do you know of other warm-weather strains of alfalfa? We are about at southern limit for Bulldog. All info on it says for Macon and above, and this place is 25-30 miles south of Macon.
This will be interesting because I have always said that the reason are program works so well, is because there are no inputs with the Corr cows. We don't fertilize the Kudzu place, don't mow it..... zero inputs other than mineral salt. Anything even remotely resembling grass is a few clearings with Johnson Grass and Broome Sage in it. I have said that I don't believe the Corr program would, or could, do any better if we had those cows on well groomed, fertilized, weed-free pasture, and fed them hay supplements, etc. I guess we will see this next year. Still wont fool with vaccinating, worming, etc, and this seed and fertilizer was paid by a grant. Still, we are keeping up with the costs, see if we get bigger and better calves off of these bermuda and bahia pastures, and if so, calculate how much it costs us to get bigger or better. If the rains are good to us and the grass grows like we expect, about July we will bring about 50 more of CLay's boss's Corrs down and put them on it.
30-something of those 54 I brought down last week have calved already. All of my 121 have, too. Well, 118. Three of them were yearling heifers when I got them in January,, and they have just now been bred to my Brangus bull. We are pretty well sitting on autopilot right now. I won't have to go down there and do anything til Memorial weekend when we tag and band the May calves. Gonna be a lot with those 50 extra , but Clay will come down and bring another of his boss's cowboys down with him to help. July 4th weekend, we will wean off the January calves for Clay's boss to buy. And will send those 2 bulls back to Scott's brother, and get our 1/2 Gurs-Herf x 1/2 Gyr heifer and bring it back. Then it and Gail's two will go back with Clay and go into his lot that he has at his boss's place. There, they gonna grow on sorghum silage, spent mash from the Buch plant, chicken litter and cotton seed and trash. Clay picks up those 20 Black Simm x ChiAngus heifers in July too, and they going in his lot as well. They will stay there like our half-Brahmas will for about 9 months til it is time to breed them,
@Mark Reynolds , I was reading up on Bulldog 505 the other day, and the article talked about how ( I forget his name) down in Tifton developed it and another strain of warm-weather alfalfa, but didn't say what it was called. Do you know of other warm-weather strains of alfalfa? We are about at southern limit for Bulldog. All info on it says for Macon and above, and this place is 25-30 miles south of Macon.
Mark Reynolds
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I don't know the variety myself, but Dr. Silva with Clemson extension likely does. She has been personally conducting trials with warm-weather alfalfa. It's quite possible she knows of a couple additional varieties that have not been released publicly as well. I will try to get in touch with her.
Liliane Severino da Silva <[email protected]>
Ebenezer
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Bulldog 805, maybe
Mark Reynolds
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Thinking a bit more about what you are doing here, did I mention the possibility of incorporating perennial peanut into your Bermuda at one time? It's a bit different in its planting. It is planted from root cuttings and I am wondering/have wondered if it could actually be mixed with Bermuda sprigs and the two planted at the same time. The peanut is of course a legume. I've known it to be utilized in some pasture fields. It does have some advantages over clover and 'typical' alfalfa as well.
I sent Dr. Silva an e-mail. I don't know myself on the varieties.
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Mark Reynolds
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Howdy! @Ebenezer. It quite possibly could be. I know you have met and heard Dr. Silva. Did she mention the alfalfa trials when you met her?
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I found it. It is called "Alfagraze 600 RR", and was developed by UGA's Joe Bouton as well. It is Roundup Ready and has a fall dormancy rating of 6. I also found out that Bouton has developed another version of Bulldog 505..... called Bulldog 805.....that can be planted further south, and has a dormancy rating of 8.
This 100 acres was going to be cotton this year. It was peanuts last year, so that's why the N levels was good. I am going to tell Scott to talk about that perennial peanut with the county agent. Thanks for the tip.
I tell ya, the Ga Dept of Ag, or the USDA or both, sure do want to see row crop land turned into grass. Planting and fertilizing has cost nothing but tractor fuel. And Scott got set up with the grant that pays for cross fencing. He has already cut that 100 acres in half , and will do the other 3 pastures after the crops are in and the grass planted. So eventually there will be eight 50 acre pastures instead of four 100 acre pastures.
Ebenezer
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Not in details. Meetings that I have been to have been more on legumes or annuals.
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@Warren Allison, if Scott can't get adequate information on the perennial peanut, I'll be happy to assist in any way possible. The perennial peanut was actually first mentioned to me by Nick with the USDA Plant Materials Center (regional) there in Americus, GA. The cross fencing is a great thing. I'm guessing you are using EQIP funds, possibly tagged from the IRA (Inflation Reduction Act). To properly graze those 8 pastures that are a result of the cross fencing, please refer to the 4 Never Fail Rules of Grazing that @Jeanne - Simme Valley nearly accused me of plagiarizing.
She'll remember what I'm talking about, and will likely get a chuckle out of it too.Good Morning @Warren Allison ! Here's what Dr. Silva has for you/me/us on this:
From: Liliane Severino da Silva <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2024 10:02 PM
To: Reynolds, Mark - FPAC-NRCS, OH <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: warm-weather alfalfa varieties
Hi, Mark
For non-Round Ready varieties, the most used is Bulldog 505 or 805.
For Round Ready, alfagraze, and some others from America, etc are available in the market. The dormancy rate that it will be acceptable depends on how cold the winter gets and whether it is expected to have severe hard frosts and how long those persist, etc.
Then, there are several entries being tested that should be available in a few years, not only focusing on dormancy rating, but also other characteristics.`
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Thanks so much for sending this. I think the Bulldog 805 is what we will use initially. Sowing these on established bermuda plots, we won't be using Round Up. However with a dormancy rating of 8, we could still use Alfagraze even if we won't be applying Round Up. With 8 fields to sow over the next year, we can try different bermuda/alfalfa combos, and see which works best.@Warren Allison, if Scott can't get adequate information on the perennial peanut, I'll be happy to assist in any way possible. The perennial peanut was actually first mentioned to me by Nick with the USDA Plant Materials Center (regional) there in Americus, GA. The cross fencing is a great thing. I'm guessing you are using EQIP funds, possibly tagged from the IRA (Inflation Reduction Act). To properly graze those 8 pastures that are a result of the cross fencing, please refer to the 4 Never Fail Rules of Grazing that @Jeanne - Simme Valley nearly accused me of plagiarizing.
Good Morning @Warren Allison ! Here's what Dr. Silva has for you/me/us on this:
From: Liliane Severino da Silva <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2024 10:02 PM
To: Reynolds, Mark - FPAC-NRCS, OH <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: warm-weather alfalfa varieties
Hi, Mark
For non-Round Ready varieties, the most used is Bulldog 505 or 805.
For Round Ready, alfagraze, and some others from America, etc are available in the market. The dormancy rate that it will be acceptable depends on how cold the winter gets and whether it is expected to have severe hard frosts and how long those persist, etc.
Then, there are several entries being tested that should be available in a few years, not only focusing on dormancy rating, but also other characteristics.`
Scott may be familiar with perennial peanut. He raises and bales several acres of peanut hay, and I don't think it is just baling his regular peanuts. I know it looks different growing than his row-crop peanuts do.
Yes, the cross-fencing program is USDA, not Ga. You have to do the perimeter fences your self, and you have to have so many acres, and run at least 35 cows. I can't remember the details, It was 2021, I think, when the dude stopped by and talked to us about it. A couple of years ago, when I bought those 150 Braford and f1's for that man, he was converting 450 acres of his bean and cotton land into pasture, and I know he got that fencing grant and that grant for seed and fertilizer too.
