farmerjan
Well-known member
@Warren, there was a reason that your wife didn't/wouldn't take off work, that you didn't plan to go away, and you took the horses up there and all for the little bit of "down time"...
Another..."last" update.
- Thread starter Warren Allison
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MurraysMutts
Well-known member
My gawd. What a mess.
I'm a firm believer in a cow knowing....
Hope everyone heals up ok!
I'm a firm believer in a cow knowing....
Hope everyone heals up ok!
Travlr
Well-known member
This thread reads like a dime novel from the late 1800s.
OP
OP
When Scott left with Zeke, me and Clay got in the Ranger and rode over the hill to find Gail. She just stood there while I walked up, made a rope halter and put in on her. Clay sat in back of the Ranger leading her, and I drove out . We were gonna take her to the horse barn and see about her wounds. The other cow and all 5 calves followed along. We left Gail's 2 with the other 3 and the other cow, and they are just fine with it! We led her in the barn, where we have hot water, and mixed up some iodine soap with warm water, and cleaned her cuts very well. The one on her shoulder got pretty deep in the muscle, but she let me get down in it pretty good with the turkey baster,. The one on her belly just sliced open the top layer of skin. But every time she walked, it pulled that shoulder wound open. It needed stitching , and we had the stuff to do it. The barn fridge is full of every kind of med we need for horses and dogs, but not cattle. We never needed any with the Corr herd, but will going forward with Zeke's cow-calf thing going. We have ACE, Rompum, and Dermosadan (sp?), but we didn't know which is safe for, or even works on, a cow. How much to give etc. I wasn't about to try to sew it up with no sedation, no Lidacain, etc. So I called Scott and asked him to call the vet or send us the number. He called, and she was there in about 30 mins. Said we did a great job of cleaning the wounds, and NOT stitching the shoulder. She gave Gail a shot of something ( I forgot to ask her) and she just pulled the hide together, put a little tube in it for drainage, and closed it up with a couple of staples. And gave her a big shot of antibiotics.
Zeke didn't come out as well. Both of his legs were fileted from the back of his calf to his butt cheeks,. Barely misssed his femoral artery on both legs. But it did nick his Achilles tendon on his right leg. The hog had chewed up his thigh muscles and butt cheeks a little bit. Took them a lot longer to clean Zeke's wound than it did us Gail's. They cauterized a couple of small bleeders , and stitched up a lot of the wounds. But they are leaving a couple of the deep wounds open for now. They wanna make sure no infection occurs down deep. and that would be bad if you sewed it up with an infection down in them He is going to stay there another day or two so they can clean and irrigate and dress the wounds for a while. But he is going to make a 100% recovery.
Nobody did anything criminal to be charged with. Livestock gets out, and things like this happen. Nor do you need civil suits for people to do the right thing and take care of losses etc. The owners of the boar got there right when we were getting Gail in the barn. They removed the carcass, and got to work reparing the fence and the hog pen while we were working with Gail. His wife came too, and got out at Mattie's house and stayed with her the whole time, and cooked her something to eat. When they got through fixing the fences, they came to the barn, and when the vet was leaving he told her to bill him for everything. His wife came got Mattie this morning, and took her to the hospital to see Zeke. Like I said on another thread, people down here view people who file law suits, like they would a child molestor.
If you think Gail is a hero, you should hav seen the Cane Corsos. Scott said when he got to the kennels, they were going nuts. Mouths bleeding from trying to tear out of their pens. Zeke had raised them from puppies, and they always acted like lap dogs around him. He feeds them etc every day. Scott said there was nothing he could do but open the kennels and get out of the way. I remember looking up when I heard them coming. .They cleared the 6 foot panels without touching the top. They did not try to catch the hog like they are trained to, catching him by the snout or ears. They came to kill him..one going for the throat and the other tearing chunks out of the back of the hog's neck, I guess trying to severe the spinal chord. The one tearing into the throat cut the jugular or carotid artery, I guess. It would have bled out in a minute if Clay hadn't shot it. This whole thing, from the time Zeke came over the panels and started toward me, and the hog was killed, was no more than 2 minutes , I bet. I wish those dogs had been able to get in the house the night that pos beat Mattie and Zeke so bad. We saw later on, where they had attacked both doors that night I guess trying to get in to protect Zeke and Mattie.
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farmerjan
Well-known member
I am so glad to read the update. I mentioned the possibility of some sort of legal action because you said this boar was a problem and neighbors all wanted it dead. The owner should have taken that to heart that it was a "problem hog".... but that is for y'all to work with. Glad that the owners of the hog helped fix things up and that Miss Mattie will have a ride to the hospital. I am not implying they are not good people or that they wouldn't care... just that the boar probably should have been taken care of before now. Done, and everyone is wiser.
Animals seem to have a special affinity for people that are a little "childlike" if they are treated with kindness by that person. Zeke's obvious love of all the animals has come out with their protectiveness...
Hope the dogs are all okay too.
Glad the vet could come out and "fix up" Gail...yeah, letting the deep cut drain is good.
Oh, Rompum is what we would use on cattle... don't know the dose off hand but it just mellows them out or puts them down to sleep in a few minutes. And we use Lidocain to numb the cows that we have to take off horns if they are very big horns...
Poor Zeke, he is going to be sooooo SORE and it is going to take some time to get everything working properly again... That poor kid has sure had his share... and the backs of his legs and all is going to make sitting painful for awhile. Just so glad that it didn't get the arteries or you would have never made it to the hospital... and that it isn't his face or front of his body...
Animals seem to have a special affinity for people that are a little "childlike" if they are treated with kindness by that person. Zeke's obvious love of all the animals has come out with their protectiveness...
Hope the dogs are all okay too.
Glad the vet could come out and "fix up" Gail...yeah, letting the deep cut drain is good.
Oh, Rompum is what we would use on cattle... don't know the dose off hand but it just mellows them out or puts them down to sleep in a few minutes. And we use Lidocain to numb the cows that we have to take off horns if they are very big horns...
Poor Zeke, he is going to be sooooo SORE and it is going to take some time to get everything working properly again... That poor kid has sure had his share... and the backs of his legs and all is going to make sitting painful for awhile. Just so glad that it didn't get the arteries or you would have never made it to the hospital... and that it isn't his face or front of his body...
OP
OP
Yeah, when the vet got there she said we could have used the Rompun, and in the amounts we would use on a horse the same size. We did have a couple kinds of the "caines" there too, but just didn't want to do that without any way to sedate her.
OP
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I forgot to answer you about the dogs. Yeah, they are fine. When we take them on an actual hog hunt, they wear spiked collars and a Kevlar ( I think) vest. But, there was no time to put this on them, they were out of their pen so fast. They got the hog by the back of the neck and by the throat as soon as they reached him, and it was over in a matter of seconds after that. If he had seen them coming and had a chance to square up to them, he could have cut one of them, or maybe both, pretty bad. But he was never able to turn his head. If Clay hadn't shot him a second or two after they got him,. I don't know how long they could have held him. When Scott went to get them, I am sure he had every intention of putting their gear on, but he could not stop them or call them down, or anything. If Scott had got to the kennels a minute later, they may well have torn out of the pens. They normally run loose, but Scott put them up when we got there and unloaded the horses. My mule is a serial dog-killer. If they had came up to see the horses, wagging their tails or whatever...maybe sniffing them, and they got within reach of Festus, he would have went after them, and I wouldn't be able to hold him. They don't mess with horses or cows, etc. Nor do they ever try to get in the pig pen, which is only about 4 feet high. On a hunt, hey will sit on back of the truck calm as can be while the chase dogs are after a hog, til we send them out after the dogs bay one. When we heard the hog and Scott's pigs squealing up at the hog pen, they were just laying in their pens , and never reacted. But when they heard him eating Zeke, and heard Zeke's screams, they went psycho. Took Scott a minute or two to get them to release after it was dead. It was a hell of a day that day, and I didn't even think about how I went down there mainly to hunt, til I was on the way home that night.
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Travlr
Well-known member
Tune in next week when Zeke and his faithful sidekick Gail the Wonder Cow save a maiden from drowning, pay off the national debt, and change a Budweiser Clydesdale into a cutting pony.
wbvs58
Well-known member
Warren, I don't know what rate you use the Rompun on your horses but cows are much more sensitive to the drug so you are better off reading the label and calculating the doseage for cattle based on their weight. As an example here we have 100mg/ml Xylaxine (rompun) for horses and the original 20mg/ml Xylazine for ruminants.
Ken
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Thanks for that. 20 mg is what we use on the horses,, but we don't put them under with it. Just use it on one that may be hard to shoe, or clip. Does 20mg put a cow to sleep, or just put them in the twilight zone, like what we do with the horses?
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farmerjan
Well-known member
We used to use a very small dose for heifers in the barn if they were being difficult to milk, it was just enough to "smooth out the rough edges" while in the parlor... don't use it often, but the vet used it on a bull awhile back that we had to work on his feet, and I don't know what the dosage was... he weighed in the 16-1800 lb range I guess (neighbors bull with very long outer toes and a little limp). Put him down on the ground, and then when he got done, gave him something to counteract it and after about 10 minutes he got back up... Bull was not rank but he was a bull and not one we knew much about... safety's sake.....and did not fit in the chute or head catch... I will have to ask him.... I would like to keep a little on hand just in case we had to use it, like in the dart gun out at pasture....
wbvs58
Well-known member
There is variable dosages for the degree of sedation or anesthesia and there is also variation in the response you get. This link has the various levels of sedation with doses, eg a 500kg (1100lbs) given 2.5ml of 20mg/ml solution IM should be deeply sedated but remain standing.
Ken
wbvs58
Well-known member
@Warren Allison You do have to watch xylazine used on its own on horses they have been known to react violently such as strike out to sudden movements when they appear to be sedated.
Ken
Ken
farmerjan
Well-known member
@wbvs58 ; the vet could have used a "cocktail" on the bull that day, I was not there when he gave the shot to put him on the ground... but I mentioned we had used rompum at the one dairy on a heifer or 2 that were very "wild" when they first came in the milking parlor, and he said yes, he used rompum...but that could have been "part of the shot"... It seems like we used 1.5 or maybe 2 ml in the parlor but that was many years ago.... and only had to do it for a few days before she "got it" about milking not going to kill her.... and we weren't the worst thing that could happen to her twice a day... Part of that was not being around people much and a couple of workers that would not have lasted one day working for me with their attitude and ways of treating animals...
wbvs58
Well-known member
Yes Jan Rompun by itself would be the most likely used in the dairy, those other drugs I mentioned are controlled substances here and vets would not let them out of their sight.
With horses I would be inclined to mix it with some ACP to help avoid any sudden reaction, it would be as easy to get as rompun.
Ken
OP
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Ken, what is ACP?
SmokinM
Well-known member
Not Ken but my guess is Ace short for Acepromazine
OP
OP
Ok. You can use it on mares, but not geldings or stallions. It can cause their penis to drop and they may not ever be able to re tract it. This was the preferred drug for unscrupelous horse traders at the sales.
@wbvs58 , what are your thoughts on domorsedan?
MurraysMutts
Well-known member
That would be embarrassing.....!
wbvs58
Well-known member
Yes Warren, you are right. That one slipped my mind. Back in my day we used it regularly on geldings with no problems that I was aware of, stallions it was considered risky. I don't know but maybe when using smaller doses in a cocktail of other drugs it wasn't as harmful.
I never used Dormosedan. It came out around when I was giving horses away but I remember the reps trying to push it in conjunction with the opiod Butophanol. It is a similar drug to Rompun so would be doubling up there on that class of drug. This was about the time that there were a lot of new anesthetic drugs and tranquilisers coming out for small animals as well, all much more expensive than what I had been using very effectively and safely. I got a bit peed off with reps trying to shove these things down your neck so I started locking them out. I was also starting to have trouble with my memory remembering names so decided to stick with what I knew and was confident with.
Ken
