Angus. I don't get this...........

[ANAZAZI]

A dna test shows if or not one animal really is the offspring of another animal.
That is all.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Here is an 1980's model "Angus" bull from Canada sold for big money to a breeder in Texas.

this bull looks like a black holstein.. from the crown of his head, to his gimlet ass

 

[pdfangus]

AFORE YALL GET TOO CARRIED AWAY CRITIZING THE ANGUS BREEDER....

I was once in the office of a big name hereford breeder and he had a note laying on his desk and some weights and birth dates and they had all sorts of scratchouts and "corrections" I recall one partiularly heavy bull calf had five different birthdays by his name.

had another color breeder ask me once how much you could feed calves before you had to say you were creeping em.

as far as differnces.....
Dr. George Green was famous for saying that there were as many differences within breeds as there were between breeds. especially true for breeds of larger numbers.
the differences in dexters are not so wide.

cattle are a product of their environment.
what they have to eat on a daily basis determines how big they get.
they have an ability to adapt and survive on the resources avaialble.
it is not all genetic.
my dad was a scatch dirt farmer and we had typical cows.
when I got out of college and went to work for a big purebred outfit, he and his buddy came up to see me and they were amazed at the size of the cows. genetics were not real differnet but the groceries were.
In the seventies and eighties some learned judges decided to place bigger cattle higher and the race was on in the showring. but that race happened in a lot of breeds. some recognized the folly sooner than the others.
Show cattle got big. but the market corrected it.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

AFORE YALL GET TOO CARRIED AWAY CRITIZING THE ANGUS BREEDER....

I was once in the office of a big name hereford breeder and he had a note laying on his desk and some weights and birth dates and they had all sorts of scratchouts and "corrections" I recall one partiularly heavy bull calf had five different birthdays by his name.

had another color breeder ask me once how much you could feed calves before you had to say you were creeping em.

as far as differnces.....
Dr. George Green was famous for saying that there were as many differences within breeds as there were between breeds. especially true for breeds of larger numbers.
the differences in dexters are not so wide.

cattle are a product of their environment.
what they have to eat on a daily basis determines how big they get.
they have an ability to adapt and survive on the resources avaialble.
it is not all genetic.
my dad was a scatch dirt farmer and we had typical cows.
when I got out of college and went to work for a big purebred outfit, he and his buddy came up to see me and they were amazed at the size of the cows. genetics were not real differnet but the groceries were.
In the seventies and eighties some learned judges decided to place bigger cattle higher and the race was on in the showring. but that race happened in a lot of breeds. some recognized the folly sooner than the others.
Show cattle got big. but the market corrected it.

it happened to hereford as well they went through the same deal with another suspect breed in the wood pile to bring em back off the ground

 

[backhoeboogie]

The problem I have seen at the sale barn if it's black it sells for more no matter if it's crap or not.

Friday a week ago it was different. Angus 5 month bred solid teeth were bringing anywhere from $600 to as high as $825. The same brindles were bringing $900 on up. It went on for a couple of hours. This was the Dublin, TX sale barn.

Why?? Was it the quality of the brindles or just happenstance?

The brindles didn't look to be anything extremely impressive. The only answer can come from those who were buying, or not bidding on the others. I was there buying calves split off of broken mouths and nothing else.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Of course but the post was in response to the erroneous claim that Angus were traditionally little 900lb puds and to assert that it was only the introduction of outside blood that gave them size, when this is clearly not the case.

900 was pretty big for the angus I remember back in my youth.

When I got ready to buy another bull I was looking at Angus and Brangus. I was looking to market more replacement heifers so I decided on Angus so I could market Angus + and black Baldies.

I had to search high and low to find an Angus breeder that had Angus looking cows, his bulls were running about 1200 pounds. One of my pet pevee's is if I want to use Angus I want Angus. Not a Black conterfiet bull in the cesspool of Angus genetics. If I decide I want a Simm Bull he is supposed to be red and white not black. The new biggest joke of all is black Hereford this bovine does not exsist . The other pet pevee if its a composite breed like Black this or Black that is passed off as being the real thing.
IMOO nothing wrong with a stabilized composite like Brangus, Beefmaster,or Gerts you know you are buying a composite bull.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

Here is an 1980's model "Angus" bull from Canada sold for big money to a breeder in Texas.

this bull looks like a black holstein.. from the crown of his head, to his gimlet ass

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :clap:

He bears little resemblance to my old boy below that is for sure.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

AFORE YALL GET TOO CARRIED AWAY CRITIZING THE ANGUS BREEDER....

I was once in the office of a big name hereford breeder and he had a note laying on his desk and some weights and birth dates and they had all sorts of scratchouts and "corrections" I recall one partiularly heavy bull calf had five different birthdays by his name.

had another color breeder ask me once how much you could feed calves before you had to say you were creeping em.

as far as differnces.....
Dr. George Green was famous for saying that there were as many differences within breeds as there were between breeds. especially true for breeds of larger numbers.
the differences in dexters are not so wide.

cattle are a product of their environment.
what they have to eat on a daily basis determines how big they get.
they have an ability to adapt and survive on the resources avaialble.
it is not all genetic.
my dad was a scatch dirt farmer and we had typical cows.
when I got out of college and went to work for a big purebred outfit, he and his buddy came up to see me and they were amazed at the size of the cows. genetics were not real differnet but the groceries were.
In the seventies and eighties some learned judges decided to place bigger cattle higher and the race was on in the showring. but that race happened in a lot of breeds. some recognized the folly sooner than the others.
Show cattle got big. but the market corrected it.

Angus bulls have been used here since the 50's and when I think Angus in terms of traditional standard phenotype and then saw some of the winning "Angus" show bulls of the 80's IMO far too few were being critical of the rapid drastic type change that occurred, especially since the change must have been helped along with the use of non Angus genetics. IMHO it should have been and should continue to be Angus breeders that are most critical of themselves.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

AFORE YALL GET TOO CARRIED AWAY CRITIZING THE ANGUS BREEDER....

I was once in the office of a big name hereford breeder and he had a note laying on his desk and some weights and birth dates and they had all sorts of scratchouts and "corrections" I recall one partiularly heavy bull calf had five different birthdays by his name.

had another color breeder ask me once how much you could feed calves before you had to say you were creeping em.

as far as differnces.....
Dr. George Green was famous for saying that there were as many differences within breeds as there were between breeds. especially true for breeds of larger numbers.
the differences in dexters are not so wide.

cattle are a product of their environment.
what they have to eat on a daily basis determines how big they get.
they have an ability to adapt and survive on the resources avaialble.
it is not all genetic.
my dad was a scatch dirt farmer and we had typical cows.
when I got out of college and went to work for a big purebred outfit, he and his buddy came up to see me and they were amazed at the size of the cows. genetics were not real differnet but the groceries were.
In the seventies and eighties some learned judges decided to place bigger cattle higher and the race was on in the showring. but that race happened in a lot of breeds. some recognized the folly sooner than the others.
Show cattle got big. but the market corrected it.

Angus bulls have been used here since the 50's and when I think Angus in terms of traditional standard phenotype and then saw some of the winning "Angus" show bulls of the 80's IMO far too few were being critical of the rapid drastic type change that occurred, especially since the change must have been helped along with the use of non Angus genetics. IMHO it should have been and should continue to be Angus breeders that are most critical of themselves.

yep or a good commercial ''COWMAN'' man turned purebred... thats got good understanding of what the customer needs

 

[Kingfisher]

I was there buying calves split off of broken mouths and nothing else.[/quote]
Ha. That is an interesting nook. So what did you end up with? How many were you able to or should I say how
were you able to get em " split off?" Thanks in advance. Is it a little chilly today out there?

 

[Bonsman]

I am away from this board for two weeks, come back, and find out I missed all the fun on this thread. :frowns:

 

[Dylan Biggs]

If a cesspool of generic black cattle exists it is because other breeds stole the color of Angus to perpetrate a fraud, there's good and bad in every breed and cross, but the blame Angus game never seems to get old. Again, who really changed over the past 3 decades? The Breed that was always black and created a breed based beef program or everyone else that wanted a piece of the pie they neither earned nor created??

Robert while I agree to a small extent with your logic it would seem to me that as the breed composition of Black cattle has changed over the years it is incumbent upon CAB as the gate keepers of the brand to adjust the qualification process accordingly to keep out the fraudulent Angus cattle to regain the integrity of the CAB label, not just blame them for the somewhat now dubious claim of "certified Angus" beef.

 

[vclavin]

How many "naturally" black breeds - besides Angus - are there?
Valerie

 

[Kingfisher]

If a cesspool of generic black cattle exists it is because other breeds stole the color of Angus to perpetrate a fraud, there's good and bad in every breed and cross, but the blame Angus game never seems to get old. Again, who really changed over the past 3 decades? The Breed that was always black and created a breed based beef program or everyone else that wanted a piece of the pie they neither earned nor created??

Robert while I agree to a small extent with your logic it would seem to me that as the breed composition of Black cattle has changed over the years it is incumbent upon CAB as the gate keepers of the brand to adjust the qualification process accordingly to keep out the fraudulent Angus cattle to regain the integrity of the CAB label, not just blame them for the somewhat now dubious claim of "certified Angus" beef.

Whoa. How can CAB be responsible for being the " gate keepers of the brand?" It's either an Angus or it's not right? ;-)

 

[TexasBred]

Maybe "housekeeping" would have been a better word.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

If a cesspool of generic black cattle exists it is because other breeds stole the color of Angus to perpetrate a fraud, there's good and bad in every breed and cross, but the blame Angus game never seems to get old. Again, who really changed over the past 3 decades? The Breed that was always black and created a breed based beef program or everyone else that wanted a piece of the pie they neither earned nor created??

Robert while I agree to a small extent with your logic it would seem to me that as the breed composition of Black cattle has changed over the years it is incumbent upon CAB as the gate keepers of the brand to adjust the qualification process accordingly to keep out the fraudulent Angus cattle to regain the integrity of the CAB label, not just blame them for the somewhat now dubious claim of "certified Angus" beef.

Whoa. How can CAB be responsible for being the " gate keepers of the brand?" It's either an Angus or it's not right? ;-)

nope not right, its their ball game their responsible for quality of the product

 

[Caustic Burno]

How many "naturally" black breeds - besides Angus - are there?
Valerie

Not many Corinette's, a Welsh breed I can't remember the name of, I know I am forgeting one or two.

 

[dun]

nope not right, its their ball game their responsible for quality of the product

And CAB (the product) has kept it's standards of quality

 

[robert]

Welsh Black, Kyloe (black highland cattle), Galloway, Dexter. Of course 3 of those 4 are horned breeds and in addition would be considered minor breeds in the context of US beef production.

As Dun said, CAB demand has grown and is a direct result of strict adherence to a quality product.

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

Isn't there a kerry or kelly breed that is black?