Angus Cattle

[cfpinz]

Of all the angus bulls I've owned, the worst by far have had Gardiner influence.

cfpinz

 

[Frankie]

I would disagree, if you read any of the footnotes on the cattle from GAR the cow/factory has little to do with things. They have taken maternally based cattle and bred them into these bizarre creatures of carcass. There has been little regard balance. SC measurements are dismal, I am sure my nuts are bigger than most of their bulls. They perpetuate the extreme cattle and keep adding to the numbers. Go back to the 2005 Select Sires AI book, there is a picture of 2536 :shock:. She would be involved in ET work at our place, but it would likely be an embryo that would be going in a cow like that. Can see why she got fattened and and a picture taken as a dry cow.

I can't take away from the success at their sales, but success isn't designated by the $$$ collected, although it does go a long way.

I knew you would disagree. But commercial cattlemen won't ignore the success of US Premium Beef and Gardiner's cattle work very well in that program. That speaks to the quality of their beef. They have about 1000 calves drop every fall in a defined breeding window. That speaks to the fertility of their females and their management. Their bulls are working in every part of the country and in several AI catalogs. That speaks to the quality of their bulls. And they make big bucks at their sale. The entire family makes a living off the ranch. Not too many big operations can say that. I've seen lots of GAR cows run through consignment sales in OK and TX. They usually bring top dollar. So you can disagree all day, but Gardiners meet the challenge you put out there.

There's standing room only at the sales of Nichols sired calves. He used to sponsor several a year; I don't know what the program is right now. That tells me that those calves work well in the feedlot and probably on the rail. His cattle have top of the line EPDs.

 

[Victoria]

We don't have black Angus, just red Angus and we are happy with them.
They are maternal, calves grow well as purebreds or as crosses (and can cross with anything), they are winter hardy - calves are up and bouncing they don't just lay there and freeze to death, they do not require huge amounts of feed, dispostion is great- protective with predators but not with us. On top of that they have a great marketing program which is helpful to us when we sell them.
The marketing program isn't all the breed has going for it. The fact is that it is a quality product with a good marketing program and that means success. Without that marketing program would Angus be doing as well, no. Quality products are overlooked often because they lack good marketing.

 

[ArrowHBrand]

I am an angus breeder and the cattle have great maternal, growth and end product traits that make them great cows but the main reason they are as prodominate today as they are is due to the quality of the marketing that the association has done. Couple the good marketing with the impeccable data collection in mass numbers and you can really steer a breed in a direction that meets the customer and consumer demands. But data collection alone doesn't do anything you have to interpret the data and distribute it to the members in a usable manner so that they are better informed about breeding decisions and so forth.

Perfectly said. The American public has been bombarded by the marketing campaign and most people will tell you Angus is superior in taste to other breeds. However, I would bet the ranch that 99% of the public couldn't tell the difference between and Angus steak and a Simmi or Hereford steak.

 

[Frankie]

Do you think the same could be said if Hereford or Red Angus got the snowball effect going with their organizational hyping.

I'm an Angus breeder, so take it for what it's worth, but I don't think either of those two breeds will replace Angus, at least in my lifetime. I don't think Red Angus has enough animals to get a "snowball" effect. They have a good, strong breed association that works hard to promote the breed and they're getting more popular, but I think it will be a very long time before they have the numbers to compete with Angus.

Herefords may have the numbers, but the breed seems to be in very bad shape. The years of infighting between horned and polled breeders has taken its toll. The expense of AI-ing in the breed makes it more difficult to use the "top" sires. And from just my own, limited, personal experience, a "top sire" is often equated with the show ring.

 

[SEC]

I am an angus breeder and the cattle have great maternal, growth and end product traits that make them great cows but the main reason they are as prodominate today as they are is due to the quality of the marketing that the association has done. Couple the good marketing with the impeccable data collection in mass numbers and you can really steer a breed in a direction that meets the customer and consumer demands. But data collection alone doesn't do anything you have to interpret the data and distribute it to the members in a usable manner so that they are better informed about breeding decisions and so forth.

All with great intentions I have no doubt, but do remember that this has gone astray by a long shot! EPD's, marketing and where it has lead to has generally been beneficial in terms of job security for the Assoc and the guys in the rubber rooms that supposively think they have the knowledge and means to lead breeders to greater heights with the numbers.

People claim to be individuals yet follow like sheep. I would ask for herds that offer breed leading EPD's across the board.....YET have a well rounded herd that does a lot of things right by performing in all aspects!

Successful sales mean their genetics are offering a positive influence.....or do they offer a marketing option with popular cow families, EPD's that are as good as they good. With that their popularity may have stemmed from this, IMHO

Gardiners. They consistently have one of the top sales in the breed, plus they're very involved in the US Premium Beef program. Nichols is another breeder who not only has successful seedstock sales, but has also been successful in helping their customers market their calves.

 

[SEC]

I haven't looked for the picture of 2536, will think of it one day.

I agree Nichols have done a nice job.

To have 1000 calves drop in a defined window or 100, doesn't matter it's all relative. The cow really don't know how many of them are on the ranch.

 

[blueridge]

Marketing and numbers are the two strong points for the Angus breed. To the average consumer all the beef in the case is Angus. What they seem to forget is that Angus doesn't automatically equate out to prime. Most beef consumed is a combination of more than one breed. It may be influenced heavily by a particular breed, but unless "told" which breed, the consumer would never have a clue. I personally raise Gelbvieh and Balancer. I love the Gelbvieh breed but I certainly understand it's limitations. Through selecting the right Angus bull I can improve the carcass and grade. AGA is working hard to compete with the CAB steamroller. It is unfortunate that breed associations have had to become advertising agencies as well. I mean no disrespect to any Angus breeder that can get 250,000.00 for a cow. It just seems that sanity has left the building.

 

[Brandonm2]

Angus has been so heavily promoted right now that the public probably recognizes Angus more than they do Prime. I have not had a prime steak since Cracker Barrell stopped selling them. I got mailed a menu yesterday from a new burgers/barbecue/steak place and they were all CAB. I even got coupons for a $9.95 12 ounce T-bone with two sides.

 

[OhioRiver]

do these cows sell for the same as the black angus......just asking??

We don't have black Angus, just red Angus and we are happy with them.
They are maternal, calves grow well as purebreds or as crosses (and can cross with anything), they are winter hardy - calves are up and bouncing they don't just lay there and freeze to death, they do not require huge amounts of feed, dispostion is great- protective with predators but not with us. On top of that they have a great marketing program which is helpful to us when we sell them.
The marketing program isn't all the breed has going for it. The fact is that it is a quality product with a good marketing program and that means success. Without that marketing program would Angus be doing as well, no. Quality products are overlooked often because they lack good marketing.

 

[novatech]

I would like to see angus breeders try and put some more width across their hips. Just to many skinny A's out there.
Other than that pretty darn good cattle.
The reason for their success, pure marketing.

 

[VanC]

Every breed stands based on it's pro's and con's and Angus is up there among the best.

By saying Angus is up there among the best you imply that there are other breeds that have just as much to offer. I agree. There is no one breed that can do it all. Which brings us back to the original question: What is it that makes Angus so dominant today? Well, lot's of things, but I stand with those that say marketing is probably the biggest factor.

 

[novatech]

I would like to see angus breeders try and put some more width across their hips. Just to many skinny A's out there.
Other than that pretty darn good cattle.
The reason for their success, pure marketing.

Yada, yada, yada. That's like saying that without Cullers (aka Hudgins), there would be no Brahman. Pure nonsense. Every breed stands based on it's pro's and con's and Angus is up there among the best.

The brahman was highly promoted by the people mentioned.
If they had not done so there would be no use for angus in the south. Cattle just don,t put on weight floating in a pond. The truth is that there are other breeds just as heat tolerant as brahman and have better meat quality. But there is no marketing behind them. The same goes for angus. Ther are other breeds and crosses that are better but have no marketing. If this was not so then why does cab resort to useing other breeds to make there meat quality saleable. And more proof of this fact is that you and many others seem to just take for granted all the ---- marketing gimmics are the truth.

 

[Frankie]

Every breed stands based on it's pro's and con's and Angus is up there among the best.

By saying Angus is up there among the best you imply that there are other breeds that have just as much to offer. I agree. There is no one breed that can do it all. Which brings us back to the original question: What is it that makes Angus so dominant today? Well, lot's of things, but I stand with those that say marketing is probably the biggest factor.

Are you saying that Angus people are smarter than Simmental, Char, Salers, etc breeders? That they are able to out-market them? Believe me, when we bought our first Angus bull, we had to look long and hard to find one, especially one with EPDs. We had a wide choice in Limousin bulls. There were people selling them all over the place (though they didn't have EPDs at the time). Producers might buy that first Angus bull because of marketing, maybe even a second one. But they don't keep buying a particular breed because of marketing. Try this shocking thought: maybe Angus marketing has been so successful because they have a superior product to sell?

 

[Brandonm2]

The same goes for angus. Ther are other breeds and crosses that are better but have no marketing. If this was not so then why does cab resort to useing other breeds to make there meat quality saleable. And more proof of this fact is that you and many others seem to just take for granted all the ---- marketing gimmics are the truth.

While Angus does need every well marbled black hided calf that they can find to fill the demand for CAB, Angus does not need the other breeds to make their meat salable in fact in an article in the last issue of the Angus Beef Bulletin attacks crossbreeding and using any other breeds. The brilliance of allowing Black Sims, Black lims, Black Gelbs, etc qualify for CAB is it kept them from forming their own brand. Instead of differentiating themselves from Angus they have spent 10++ years aping Angus. Why buy an Angus look alike instead of a real Angus afterall. During most of that time Angus has grown at the expense of the newly black continental breeds. Angus has out-thought, out marketed and out schemed all of the other breeds in the U.S.

 

[novatech]

The same goes for angus. Ther are other breeds and crosses that are better but have no marketing. If this was not so then why does cab resort to useing other breeds to make there meat quality saleable. And more proof of this fact is that you and many others seem to just take for granted all the ---- marketing gimmics are the truth.

While Angus does need every well marbled black hided calf that they can find to fill the demand for CAB, Angus does not need the other breeds to make their meat salable in fact in an article in an article in the last issue of the Angus Beef Bulletin attacks The brilliance of allowing Black Sims, Black lims, Black Gelbs, etc qualify for CAB is it kept them from forming their own brand. Instead of differentiating themselves from Angus they have spent 10++ years aping Angus. Why buy an Angus look alike instead of a real Angus afterall. During most of that time Angus has grown at the expense of the newly black continental breeds. Angus has out-thought, out marketed and out schemed all of the other breeds in the U.S.

So they anticapated this and that is why they cut out red angus from the cab program. This fact alone tells me that they need other breeds for improvement.

in the last issue of the Angus Beef Bulletin attacks crossbreeding and using any other breeds.

And at the same time they support CAB. :roll:

 

[Frankie]

The same goes for angus. Ther are other breeds and crosses that are better but have no marketing. If this was not so then why does cab resort to useing other breeds to make there meat quality saleable. And more proof of this fact is that you and many others seem to just take for granted all the ---- marketing gimmics are the truth.

While Angus does need every well marbled black hided calf that they can find to fill the demand for CAB, Angus does not need the other breeds to make their meat salable in fact in an article in an article in the last issue of the Angus Beef Bulletin attacks The brilliance of allowing Black Sims, Black lims, Black Gelbs, etc qualify for CAB is it kept them from forming their own brand. Instead of differentiating themselves from Angus they have spent 10++ years aping Angus. Why buy an Angus look alike instead of a real Angus afterall. During most of that time Angus has grown at the expense of the newly black continental breeds. Angus has out-thought, out marketed and out schemed all of the other breeds in the U.S.

So they anticapated this and that is why they cut out red angus from the cab program. This fact alone tells me that they need other breeds for improvement.

in the last issue of the Angus Beef Bulletin attacks crossbreeding and using any other breeds.

And at the same time they support CAB. :roll:

They didn't cut Red Angus out. The requirement has always been the animal must be at least 51% black. Red Angus are, well, red. If they're red, they don't, never have, qualified for CAB.

 

[MikeC]

If other breeds were as good or better, I would imagine that we would be hearing about after all these years.

Colorado State Univ. research showed that people preferred CHB over CAB. :lol:

 

[novatech]

The same goes for angus. Ther are other breeds and crosses that are better but have no marketing. If this was not so then why does cab resort to useing other breeds to make there meat quality saleable. And more proof of this fact is that you and many others seem to just take for granted all the ---- marketing gimmics are the truth.

While Angus does need every well marbled black hided calf that they can find to fill the demand for CAB, Angus does not need the other breeds to make their meat salable in fact in an article in an article in the last issue of the Angus Beef Bulletin attacks The brilliance of allowing Black Sims, Black lims, Black Gelbs, etc qualify for CAB is it kept them from forming their own brand. Instead of differentiating themselves from Angus they have spent 10++ years aping Angus. Why buy an Angus look alike instead of a real Angus afterall. During most of that time Angus has grown at the expense of the newly black continental breeds. Angus has out-thought, out marketed and out schemed all of the other breeds in the U.S.

So they anticapated this and that is why they cut out red angus from the cab program. This fact alone tells me that they need other breeds for improvement.

in the last issue of the Angus Beef Bulletin attacks crossbreeding and using any other breeds.

And at the same time they support CAB. :roll:

They didn't cut Red Angus out. The requirement has always been the animal must be at least 51% black. Red Angus are, well, red. If they're red, they don't, never have, qualified for CAB.

Thank you for makeing my point. Are red angus inferior? Why didn,t they include them, Especially if they are short on enough meat to supply the demand. They had enough anticipation to allow other breeds to join in, but not one of their own, and just because it is red. What's with that.
People get into black angus because of the goods sold to them and they may stay in it because of the little bit extra they receive at the market. Secondly they do not want to admit they have been dupped. From what I can tell red angus are already ahead of black angus, in quality, and are moveing ahead even more. Makeing cattle beter is what other breeds do when they don,t simply count on marketing gimmics to pave their way.
So you black angus people please explain to me why red angus was left out.

 

[Frankie]

The same goes for angus. Ther are other breeds and crosses that are better but have no marketing. If this was not so then why does cab resort to useing other breeds to make there meat quality saleable. And more proof of this fact is that you and many others seem to just take for granted all the ---- marketing gimmics are the truth.

While Angus does need every well marbled black hided calf that they can find to fill the demand for CAB, Angus does not need the other breeds to make their meat salable in fact in an article in an article in the last issue of the Angus Beef Bulletin attacks The brilliance of allowing Black Sims, Black lims, Black Gelbs, etc qualify for CAB is it kept them from forming their own brand. Instead of differentiating themselves from Angus they have spent 10++ years aping Angus. Why buy an Angus look alike instead of a real Angus afterall. During most of that time Angus has grown at the expense of the newly black continental breeds. Angus has out-thought, out marketed and out schemed all of the other breeds in the U.S.

So they anticapated this and that is why they cut out red angus from the cab program. This fact alone tells me that they need other breeds for improvement.

in the last issue of the Angus Beef Bulletin attacks crossbreeding and using any other breeds.

And at the same time they support CAB. :roll:

They didn't cut Red Angus out. The requirement has always been the animal must be at least 51% black. Red Angus are, well, red. If they're red, they don't, never have, qualified for CAB.

Thank you for makeing my point. Are red angus inferior? Why didn,t they include them, Especially if they are short on enough meat to supply the demand. They had enough anticipation to allow other breeds to join in, but not one of their own, and just because it is red. What's with that.
People get into black angus because of the goods sold to them and they may stay in it because of the little bit extra they receive at the market. Secondly they do not want to admit they have been dupped. From what I can tell red angus are already ahead of black angus, in quality, and are moveing ahead even more. Makeing cattle beter is what other breeds do when they don,t simply count on marketing gimmics to pave their way.
So you black angus people please explain to me why red angus was left out.

You don't have a point to make.

Red Angus were "left out" (your phrase) because they don't meet the USDA-approved criteria for CAB. Just like Herefords are "left out" and Murray Greys are "left out", Charlaois were "left out" and any other animals that aren't black are "left out."