Angus Cattle

[novatech]

The same goes for angus. Ther are other breeds and crosses that are better but have no marketing. If this was not so then why does cab resort to useing other breeds to make there meat quality saleable. And more proof of this fact is that you and many others seem to just take for granted all the ---- marketing gimmics are the truth.

While Angus does need every well marbled black hided calf that they can find to fill the demand for CAB, Angus does not need the other breeds to make their meat salable in fact in an article in an article in the last issue of the Angus Beef Bulletin attacks The brilliance of allowing Black Sims, Black lims, Black Gelbs, etc qualify for CAB is it kept them from forming their own brand. Instead of differentiating themselves from Angus they have spent 10++ years aping Angus. Why buy an Angus look alike instead of a real Angus afterall. During most of that time Angus has grown at the expense of the newly black continental breeds. Angus has out-thought, out marketed and out schemed all of the other breeds in the U.S.

So they anticapated this and that is why they cut out red angus from the cab program. This fact alone tells me that they need other breeds for improvement.

in the last issue of the Angus Beef Bulletin attacks crossbreeding and using any other breeds.

And at the same time they support CAB. :roll:

They didn't cut Red Angus out. The requirement has always been the animal must be at least 51% black. Red Angus are, well, red. If they're red, they don't, never have, qualified for CAB.

Thank you for makeing my point. Are red angus inferior? Why didn,t they include them, Especially if they are short on enough meat to supply the demand. They had enough anticipation to allow other breeds to join in, but not one of their own, and just because it is red. What's with that.
People get into black angus because of the goods sold to them and they may stay in it because of the little bit extra they receive at the market. Secondly they do not want to admit they have been dupped. From what I can tell red angus are already ahead of black angus, in quality, and are moveing ahead even more. Makeing cattle beter is what other breeds do when they don,t simply count on marketing gimmics to pave their way.
So you black angus people please explain to me why red angus was left out.

You don't have a point to make.

Red Angus were "left out" (your phrase) because they don't meet the USDA-approved criteria for CAB. Just like Herefords are "left out" and Murray Greys are "left out", Charlaois were "left out" and any other animals that aren't black are "left out."

Not any more. Don,t have to. You keep doing it for me.

 

[VanC]

Every breed stands based on it's pro's and con's and Angus is up there among the best.

By saying Angus is up there among the best you imply that there are other breeds that have just as much to offer. I agree. There is no one breed that can do it all. Which brings us back to the original question: What is it that makes Angus so dominant today? Well, lot's of things, but I stand with those that say marketing is probably the biggest factor.

Yes, VanC, there is alot to be said for marketing and the Angus folks do get the message out very well, as compared to other breeds. However, what you appear to be implying is that a bad product can keep selling for decades due to good marketing and that just isn't so. Those that are unfamiliar with Angus, may first purchase them due to marketing and then their personnal/judgement experience takes over after they have bought them. Current numbers indicate that most buyers are happy with them (increasing - not decreasing).

No. I have never said that Angus is an inferior product, or that an inferior product can continue to sell because of marketing. As you said, it's the marketing that gets people to try a product in the first place, in this case Angus cattle for the producers and Angus beef for the consumer. But Angus hasn't been on top since the beginning of time. It's the marketing that got them there and, as you said, it's the quality of the product that has kept them there. But it all begins with marketing, not just with Angus, but with any successful product. That's all I'm saying.

 

[MikeC]

Early Angus Herdbooks

The first Aberdeen Angus herdbook, published in 1862 in Scotland, entered both reds and blacks without distinction. This practice is continued in Britain today, as is the case throughout most of the world. Aberdeen Angus was introduced into America in the 1870s and soon attained high popularity. The first American herd books, published in 1886 and 1888 respectively, made no record as to the color of individual animals. In 1890, twenty-two reds were registered in the American Aberdeen Angus Herdbook of some 2,700 individuals entered that year. Finally, the reds and other colors were barred from registration altogether after 1917. This severe discrimination against the red color in an effort to assure a pure black strain brought a marked decline in the number of red calves born in American herds.


Rebirth of "Red" Angus
Various cattlemen throughout the United States understood the outstanding values of the reds. In 1945, the first of these cattlemen started selecting and breeding reds cropped from the best black Aberdeen Angus herds in America. By 1954, a sufficient number of herds had been established to form a breeder's organization known as the "Red Angus Association of America."

 

[VanC]

Every breed stands based on it's pro's and con's and Angus is up there among the best.

By saying Angus is up there among the best you imply that there are other breeds that have just as much to offer. I agree. There is no one breed that can do it all. Which brings us back to the original question: What is it that makes Angus so dominant today? Well, lot's of things, but I stand with those that say marketing is probably the biggest factor.

Are you saying that Angus people are smarter than Simmental, Char, Salers, etc breeders?

Of course not, but their breed association was.

That they are able to out-market them?

Again, it goes back to the AAA.

Believe me, when we bought our first Angus bull, we had to look long and hard to find one, especially one with EPDs. We had a wide choice in Limousin bulls. There were people selling them all over the place (though they didn't have EPDs at the time).

Which (sort of) proves the point I made to Angus/Brangus in the above post. Angus wasn't always on top. What got them there? Did everyone wake up one day and say "I've gotta get me some Angus" or "Honey, let's have Angus steaks tonight"? No, I say it was an excellent marketing campaign that got the ball rolling.

Producers might buy that first Angus bull because of marketing, maybe even a second one. But they don't keep buying a particular breed because of marketing.

So stipulated. But, again, it was marketing that got them to try it in the first place.

Try this shocking thought: maybe Angus marketing has been so successful because they have a superior product to sell?

I know I'm being redundant here, but it was marketing, namely CAB, that started the whole thing. Premiums are paid to the packers for carcasses that meet certain specs. Those premiums are passed down to the producers. One of the criteria for a carcass to even be considered for these premiums is that it come from an animal whose hide was at least 51% black. (I know you know all this but bear with me here) ;-) At the time CAB was implemented, the vast majority of black cattle in this country were Angus. What happens next? People who want those premiums (and didn't already raise Angus) switch. Others who don't want to switch breeds turn their cattle black.

Yes, Angus is one of the best breeds out there and, yes, they have remained dominant for quite some time because of that. But it was CAB that got them there to begin with. I don't understand why any Angus breeder would get defensive about it. It was a brilliant, risky move and now it's paying off in spades. (No pun intended) :lol:

 

[MikeC]

What is really a brilliant move by CAB is to continue to pay the $3 cwt CAB premiums, then change the rules to accept YG 5 carcasses and DEDUCT $15 per cwt for them.

That gives them more available meat to sell at a much cheaper price overall.

 

[MikeC]

Open your link and scroll on down to "YG 5". :roll:

 

[MikeC]

Here ya go Mike:

YG 3 - 4 week plant avg** none
YG 4 - 4 week plant avg** - $10/cwt (Discounts only for greater than plant average**, no premium)
YG 5 - 4 week plant avg** - $15/cwt (Discounts only for greater than plant average**, no premium)
575 lbs and under*** none - $15/cwt
1,000 lbs and over*** none - $15/cwt
Steer premium
none + $3/head for all cattle in the lot

"Premium"
n. 1. a prize, bonus, or award given as an inducement...
2. a bonus, gift, or sum additional to price, wages, interest, or the like

In other words; CAB offers a "Premium" for the better grades as an inducement for the producers. And they are rising to the occassion! Yes, CAB raised the bar a little. Consumers want quality beef and will pay a premium for it.

Why should they get a premium for a lesser grade? :roll:

They ARE getting a Grading "Premium" for qualifying for CAB, which equals $3 per cwt.

Some ARE NOT getting the YG "Premiums" (paid for 1's & 2's-none for 3's) but getting DEDUCTIONS taken out for YG 4's & 5's

CAB dropped the old 3.9 or better YG requirement. They replaced it with a ribeye minimum.

There are two entirely different sets of "Premiums" here.

 

[MikeC]

Prime, CAB, NBAB, YG1 and YG2 get a premium.

Yes.....and...........
Prime YG 4&5 get a deduction.
CAB YG 4&5 get a deduction.

What I'm saying that you ain't getting is that CAB is OVERALL paying less for their product because of dropping the YG 3.9 qualification standard.

 

[MikeC]

They simply raised the bar Mike. And that's what your not getting.

If the ommission of a premium is such a detriment to the Angus industry, where is it showing up? The producers are feeding the demand as fast as they can. Sales are higher than ever before. You can't have sales without supply. If the ommission is detrimental, why are all these producers reaching out to fill demand?

Full circle to ROB's original question. As this demand for premium Angus beef increases so will demand for just a black cow. Although ROB may not be interested in entering the CAB market, the demand it's generated will have a positive effect on the saleability of his Angus, in general (in addition to all of the fine and many physical traits of the breed!)

Boy, listen to me. Dropping the 3.9 YG qualifications ain't "Raising the Bar". Not by any stretch.

Although they accepted those cattle worse than 3.9 YG for years they COULDN"T deduct it from the checks cause they wasn't supposed to be in the mix to start with.

Now they can qualify 'em and deduct for 'em too!

OVERALL, THEY ARE PAYING LESS FOR CAB BEEF THAN THEY WERE BEFORE!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MikeC]

:lol:

You dummy. Accepting anything worse than a 3.9 is LOWERING the bar............................

 

[MikeC]

Hey Buckweat, why accept a 3 or worse? Quality is king.

Now, for the benefit of those who are wondering what a YG1 or a YG 5 is, what is the definition of each???
:lol:

They do accept 3.9's and worse now.
:roll:
That's what I've been trying to tell you for days now. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[WORANCH]

What CAB bashers don;t tell is that CAB sets guide lines for ribeye size 10- 16 sq in . no matter what Yield Grade .The carcass must have less than 1" fat thickness.

Meat graders assign a yield grade to a carcass by evaluating:

1 the amount of external fat;
2 the hot carcass weight;
3 the amount of kidney, pelvic, and heart fat; and
4 the area of the ribeye muscle.



Yield Grade 1
The carcass is covered with a thin layer of external fat over the loin and rib; there are slight deposits of fat in the flank, cod or udder, kidney, pelvic and heart regions. Usually, there is a very thin layer of fat over the outside of the round and over the chuck.
Yield Grade 2
The carcass is almost completely covered with external fat, but lean is very visible through the fat over the outside of the round, chuck, and neck. Usually, there is a slightly thin layer of fat over the inside round, loin, and rib, with a slightly thick layer of fat over the rump and sirloin.
Yield Grade 3
The carcass is usually completely covered with external fat; lean is plainly visible through the fat only on the lower part of the outside of the round and neck. Usually, there is a slightly thick layer of fat over the rump and sirloin. Also, there are usually slightly larger deposits of fat in the flank, cod or udder, kidney, pelvic and heart regions.
Yield Grade 4
The carcass is usually completely covered with external fat, except that muscle is visible in the shank, outside of the flank and plate regions. Usually, there is a moderately thick layer of external fat over the inside of the round, loin, and rib, along with a thick layer of fat over the rump and sirloin. There are usually large deposits of fat in the flank, cod or udder, kidney, pelvic and heart regions.
Yield Grade 5
Generally, the carcass is covered with a thick layer of fat on all external surfaces. Extensive fat is found in the brisket, cod or udder, kidney, pelvic and heart regions.




Expected percentage of boneless, closely trimmed retail cuts from beef carcasses within the various yield grades
Yield Grade % BCTRC
1 > 52.3
2 52.3 - 50.0
3 50.0 - 47.7
4 47.7 - 45.4
5 < 45.4

 

[Avalon]

What quality('s) of the angus breed do you consider to be the main factor(s) that has made them the predominate breed in the United States?

Thanks,
ROB

To answer the question... It is not one quality or even a set of qualities. Angus make great cows and excellent beef. Lower incidents of pink eye, sunburned udders, They milk well yada yada yada. So do other breeds. When it comes to the calf side buyers/feeders in texas admit to looking for cattle that are efficient-economical and profitable. They say that the are looking for and will pay more for predominantly british cattle to send to the feedlot. whay because overall they know what they are getting.
To add to it, the marketing machine of the Angus Assn. has made it easier to identify these "predominantly british cattle"
through the source verified program. The marketing programs of AAA were made to benifit the Angus Breed. Not any other. If you were in the Chevy business wouldnt you do everything possible to keep me from buying a Dodge ?
Like it or not the Angus Breed is now consumer driven. That means John and Jane Q Public who live in whatever CITY USA who eat our products are the ones who dictate what we raise.
To the detriment of our breed (I guess) weve bred ourselves out of the pretty business sometimes giving up on soundness and phenotype in order to raise something that may end up looking more like a wagyu.
I am an angus breeder that will continue to raise angus like I like them always being mindful of EPD's and carcass merit. I will still be looking for those big boned, big butted cattle that walk right, calve easy but sell to folks who want good productive Angus Bulls.
Every breed has its raves and its rasberries. They just need to learn to capitalize off of what makes them good and acceptible.
In my part of the country, most breeders woould laugh at you (unless your a seedstock producer) if you dont have eared cattle. But when they go to buy a bull they want Angus or Hereford most of the time. It is the job of the AAA to sway them toward my Angus bulls.
How can I complain about that?

 

[backhoeboogie]

How can I complain about that?

If you like the way the shoe fits, you're doing fine.

I appreciate the way you expressed it Avalon. You chose your words carefully.

 

[MikeC]

But they don't pay a premium on those chief!

What's the difference between a YG1 and a YG5???

They pay the $3 per cwt for being CAB accepted premium and Deduct for the higher Yield grades.

We have been araound and around in circles about it and you still don't understand. :roll:

CAB is paying less for beef OVERALL because of the changes to the acceptance criteria. :roll:

 

[ROB]

CAB does NOT resort to using other breeds to make their meat more saleable. Angus meat has always stood on it's own and at the top.

i would disagree - it seems to me that CAB intended on using other breeds to increase sales from the get-go. if not, why then is there a 51% black-hided stipulation. IMO - cab (angus meat) has never stood on it's own at the top. if it could the stipulations would be 100% black hided, polled, DNA verified and so on. :lol:

additionally, what explains the laxed CAB standards on yield grades? is the public demanding YG 4 & 5's? i would seriously doubt it. one could contend that CAB is changing to meet the needs of the "breed". is this the direction the "breed" is headed? or is it the infusion of the continentals 49% that is contributing the extra fat?

ROB

 

[jscunn]

CAB did not intend to use other breeds from the get go. They intended to sell more Angus bulls. Angus bulls bred to a Hereford cow, for example, will produce a calf much more than 51% black hided but less than 100% black hided. The other problem is that there was and still is no ID program large enough to handle the CAB demand as it currently stands. I promise that if CAB could meet demand with Angus Source tagged calves only they would. (Insert agruement about 1/2 bloods higher qualification rate here, MikeC!!)

 

[dun]

is the public demanding YG 4 & 5's? i would seriously doubt it.

The public could care less about YG. All that excess goes on the cutting room floor and you can;t tell the difference in a choice steak from a YG 2 or a YG 5.

 

[3rdgeneration farmer]

Pick one, they have every quality needed period.

 

[3rdgeneration farmer]

CAB-certified ANGUS beef. Why would they intend to use another breed? I dont understand.