American Black Hereford Association

[frenchie]

Speaking of strange things to do to a recognised breed, how about the 'black' charolais?

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/circlex/blacks.htm

http://www.siredirect.com/blkcharolais/about.htm

http://www.charolaisbanner.com/sandrose/info.htm

http://www.laueranch.com/charolais.html

Take care.

Just what is with this new turncoat breeds do they got to disquise their bulls or their breeds so they can sell them. Too many riding on Angus, shirttails.

 

[tapeworm]

Old topic no such thing there is the black baldie they are trying to sell of as a registered breed in Leavenworth Ks. You have never seen a mutant / recessive gene to cause a Herefordto be Black. Angus have a recessive red gene and you still have a real Angus.

If you want to run Angus genetics buy Angus dang good cattle.

Black Herefords :stop: I'm calling BS. All you have is a counterfiet.

I have been invited the last two years to the sale. The brochures I have been sent contain some good looking cattle, they are just not Herefords. I produce crossbreed cattle every year in the pasture. I guess I could put a roll of toliet paper with them black baldies and call them registered Herefords.

If I wanted Angus genetics I would go to one of the many reputable breeders on the board La4 Jake or Frankie and buy Angus.

The people in kansas have produced a good looking animal it just needs to marketed as a composite breed Hergus, Angfords or something just not Herefords. I will say it takes a lot of hard work to make a composite that reproduces consistently as they have. I just have a problem calling them Herefords

I agree with you this time Camp Cattle Company. Why mess up a good black baldy trying to put all that other white paint on the mane like your old timey Herefords has got....makes for a stupid looking black baldy....cant beat a black baldy anyhow

 

[texbulldog]

Check out this mutant.

Is this the view you were wanting?

 

[Campground Cattle]

Like I said earlier dang fine lookin cattle just have a hard time with the Hereford

 

[certherfbeef]

The picture on my screen cut off the hind quarters. That is what I wanted to see. Probably not much there though. Fishy butted and crooked wheels. :roll: Goes back the the single trait selection fiasco.

 

[txag]

Check out this mutant

no one said the black hereford was a mutant. what camp said was you don't get a black animal from two red parents without a mutation of the color gene or BY BREEDING TO A BLACK ANIMAL (which is the case of the black hereford). if you breed to a black animal (angus), that makes it a crossbred (baldie), not a black hereford. :roll:

 

[cul8r]

The black herefords are just like other breeds that have been turned black. It doesn't come out of the first cross. You breed them up to where there is enough hereford percentage in them to be registered herefords. It may take 2, 3, or more generations.

The world is changeing everyday, you might as well get use to it.

The first cross of any breed with a black is a black bladie, not just herefords.

 

[1848]

Just another way for the CAB to get some 50% black cattle heading their way...and they know that Hereford carcass will grade out too!....

 

[cul8r]

The ones that I know of were turned black using Maine Anjou bulls.

 

[certherfbeef]

You breed them up to where there is enough hereford percentage in them to be registered herefords. It may take 2, 3, or more generations.

You can't "breed up" a hereford. Therefore, they are not herefords!!

 

[txag]

The ones that I know of were turned black using Maine Anjou bulls.

and......where did those black maines get the black gene? mutation of the color gene or crossing with ANGUS?

either way, Maine or Angus, you're saying that with enough crosses back to a hereford they were able to get rid of all the other genes from the outside breed except for the black color gene? give me a break. it's a crossbred.

cert's right. other breeds allow "breeding up". the American Hereford Association does not.

 

[greenwillowherefords]

The black herefords are just like other breeds that have been turned black. It doesn't come out of the first cross. You breed them up to where there is enough hereford percentage in them to be registered herefords. It may take 2, 3, or more generations.

The world is changeing everyday, you might as well get use to it.

The first cross of any breed with a black is a black bladie, not just herefords.

If it doesn't have a white face, or a mottled white face, it is not a black baldie.

I'm with Cert on this one to. IMO, you are breeding DOWN if you bring in other blood to a quality purebred Hereford!

 

[jkwilson]

In the registered seedstock business, it's always better to try to produce an animal that best expresses the strengths of that breed. If you are breeding Herefords, you shouldn't look to make a better Angus than an Angus. This is the big problem with multi-breed shows having a grand-champion. Seldom will a breed, particularly a breed that doesn't allow crossbreeding or whatever euphemism like purebloods they call it, compete with the crossbreds.
If everybody chases the fads, when a producer needs a breed's strong traits for his commercial breeding program, they won't be there. The handiest tool in the toolbox is the right tool for the job, not the best looking tool.

 

[la4angus]

The handiest tool in the toolbox is the right tool for the job, not the best looking tool.

This is one thing that many producers/multipliers forget when purchasing a bull.

 

[tapeworm]

The handiest tool in the toolbox is the right tool for the job, not the best looking tool.

This is one thing that many producers/multipliers forget when purchasing a bull.

Right as usual LA4Angus.

 

[cul8r]

The ones that I know of were turned black using Maine Anjou bulls.

and......where did those black maines get the black gene? mutation of the color gene or crossing with ANGUS?

either way, Maine or Angus, you're saying that with enough crosses back to a hereford they were able to get rid of all the other genes from the outside breed except for the black color gene? give me a break. it's a crossbred.

cert's right. other breeds allow "breeding up". the American Hereford Association does not.

Ok, I'm not trying to start an argument over this, but, what you are saying is that all herefords are related, since there is no breeding up.
So how do you get new genetics? Eventually won't the registered herefords end up like the Holsteins? with no where to go but down.

Ok, next question, Where did the longer legs come from? Herefords were short legged animals, if no other breed genetics were introduced then are you guys putting fertilizer on their backs to make them grow longer legs?

Where did the white mane's go? Where did all the extra white that comes way up on their sides come from?

Like I said I'm not trying to stir the pot, I'm just curious.

 

[SF]

Ok, I'm not trying to start an argument over this, but, what you are saying is that all herefords are related, since there is no breeding up.
So how do you get new genetics? Eventually won't the registered herefords end up like the Holsteins? with no where to go but down.

Ok, next question, Where did the longer legs come from? Herefords were short legged animals, if no other breed genetics were introduced then are you guys putting fertilizer on their backs to make them grow longer legs?

Where did the white mane's go? Where did all the extra white that comes way up on their sides come from?

Like I said I'm not trying to stir the pot, I'm just curious.

Most herefords here in the USA today can trace their pedigrees back to Anxiety IV.

Actually Herefords used to be much larger. Through selective breeding their frame sizes were moderated. The smaller animals you are referring to were very popular in the 50's and 60's. By the late 60's breeders needed cattle with more lean meat, so we saw the frame sizes increase and a more lean animal being bred.

This is all done through line breeding, and/or selective out crossing between Hereford herds. The commonality of the markings and the other traits these animals possess is a result of these breeding programs.

There is a lot more information on this subject available on the internet, AHA, TAMU, and other sources.

 

[txag]

Ok, I'm not trying to start an argument over this, but, what you are saying is that all herefords are related, since there is no breeding up.
So how do you get new genetics? Eventually won't the registered herefords end up like the Holsteins? with no where to go but down.

herefords have the 2nd highest registration numbers in the United States. originally, the herefords were all "related" but today there are enough breeders and bloodlines to choose from that it's easy to find "outcross" genetics within the hereford breed. since the horned & polled associations merged, many people have been doing that by using horned bulls on polled cows and vice versa. the problem with holsteins is there was single trait selection for milk production & many other important traits were forgotten. the hereford breed is definitely not heading down. demand for hereford bulls and CHB is increasing every day.

Ok, next question, Where did the longer legs come from? Herefords were short legged animals, if no other breed genetics were introduced then are you guys putting fertilizer on their backs to make them grow longer legs?

frame score and hip height are some of the most highly heritable traits. it's easy to go bigger & smaller without using other breeds. ;-)

Where did the white mane's go?

selection over time has been for darker-marked animals. in the past, one of the problems with herefords was the stereotype that they all had pinkeye problems. by selecting for more pigment, many of those problems have been eliminated and that stereotype is being erased.

Where did all the extra white that comes way up on their sides come from?

what extra white?

Like I said I'm not trying to stir the pot, I'm just curious.

sure you're not, but that's ok......i'll answer your questions.

 

[brokenmouth]

So how do you get new genetics? Eventually won't the registered herefords end up like the Holsteins? with no where to go but down.... Like I said I'm not trying to stir the pot, I'm just curious.

no where to go but down. right about that. holsteins have been bred for milk production and without new genetics they are turning out to be a sad failure.

no breed is big enough to support itself.

for a nonbovine example look what happened to the arabian horse. awful

 

[greenwillowherefords]

So how do you get new genetics? Eventually won't the registered herefords end up like the Holsteins? with no where to go but down.... Like I said I'm not trying to stir the pot, I'm just curious.

no where to go but down. right about that. holsteins have been bred for milk production and without new genetics they are turning out to be a sad failure.

no breed is big enough to support itself.

for a nonbovine example look what happened to the arabian horse. awful

I couldn't disagree more about Herefords going down. That's like saying that cattle are going down because they haven't outcrossed with another species. There are New Zealand bloodlines, Australian bloodlines, English bloodlines, Canadian bloodlines, and many more to outcross from. Some of them have not been used widely for 40 years, but they are waiting to be utilized.