a question for commercial operators

[Red Bull Breeder]

One of the richest old cattlemen i know does everthing about as assbackwards as you possiblely can.Never culls a cow or a bull never preg check vacinates or worms, don't cut bull calves. As a matter a fact i am sure he has cattle that has never been inside a corral.Buys bulls of one breed 15 to 20 at a time. Runs brahma Char Brangus Herford and Jersey bulls. If he is driving down the road and see a bunch of bull he likes the breed does not make any difference he will stop and buy how ever many he wants. If he needs money he sells calves if not he don't. Have saw his cows nursing three years worth of calves at the same time because he did not sell for two years. He don't wean calves either. But he is a millionaire several times over. He makes all the money he need so why change.

 

[Angus Cowman]

One of the richest old cattlemen i know does everthing about as assbackwards as you possiblely can.Never culls a cow or a bull never preg check vacinates or worms, don't cut bull calves. As a matter a fact i am sure he has cattle that has never been inside a corral.Buys bulls of one breed 15 to 20 at a time. Runs brahma Char Brangus Herford and Jersey bulls. If he is driving down the road and see a bunch of bull he likes the breed does not make any difference he will stop and buy how ever many he wants. If he needs money he sells calves if not he don't. Have saw his cows nursing three years worth of calves at the same time because he did not sell for two years. He don't wean calves either. But he is a millionaire several times over. He makes all the money he need so why change.

yep a few like that around here also
I used to catch cows for a guy who was satisfied with what ever we got in the corrals when he was wanting to sell sometimes he would sell calves ranging from 250lb to 1000lbs right off the cow at the same time and sometimes off of the same cow
but he sure didn't make all of his money off of cows when he got started

 

[Ryder]

One of the richest old cattlemen i know does everthing about as assbackwards as you possiblely can.Never culls a cow or a bull never preg check vacinates or worms, don't cut bull calves. As a matter a fact i am sure he has cattle that has never been inside a corral.Buys bulls of one breed 15 to 20 at a time. Runs brahma Char Brangus Herford and Jersey bulls. If he is driving down the road and see a bunch of bull he likes the breed does not make any difference he will stop and buy how ever many he wants. If he needs money he sells calves if not he don't. Have saw his cows nursing three years worth of calves at the same time because he did not sell for two years. He don't wean calves either. But he is a millionaire several times over. He makes all the money he need so why change.

Good post RB. :clap:
His cows and his money. Like it or not, his opinion is the only one that counts. :nod:

 

[3waycross]

One of the richest old cattlemen i know does everthing about as assbackwards as you possiblely can.Never culls a cow or a bull never preg check vacinates or worms, don't cut bull calves. As a matter a fact i am sure he has cattle that has never been inside a corral.Buys bulls of one breed 15 to 20 at a time. Runs brahma Char Brangus Herford and Jersey bulls. If he is driving down the road and see a bunch of bull he likes the breed does not make any difference he will stop and buy how ever many he wants. If he needs money he sells calves if not he don't. Have saw his cows nursing three years worth of calves at the same time because he did not sell for two years. He don't wean calves either. But he is a millionaire several times over. He makes all the money he need so why change.

Did he make that money on cows?

 

[BC]

As to why more producers don't sell a more uniform calf crop, most don't sell over 10 at a time. The vareage herd size around here is 31. For every 200 to 300 cow herd, here are 30 to 40 herds with less than 20 head.

If I had the land resources and cow numbers, I would seek out ways to sell in large groups. It will make $3 to $6 per cwt. more to sell in groups (10 or more) that are same sex, weight and quality no matter what color.

That is the reason that the co-mingled, preconditioned sales are gaining in popularity.

 

[Angus Cowman]

As to why more producers don't sell a more uniform calf crop, most don't sell over 10 at a time. The vareage herd size around here is 31. For every 200 to 300 cow herd, here are 30 to 40 herds with less than 20 head.

If I had the land resources and cow numbers, I would seek out ways to sell in large groups. It will make $3 to $6 per cwt. more to sell in groups (10 or more) that are same sex, weight and quality no matter what color.

it helps if they are all the same color

That is the reason that the co-mingled, preconditioned sales are gaining in popularity.

The co-mingle sales are a great thing and a person should utilize them when they can

but if an operator with 30 hd has a closed breeding season and he runs uniform cows then even the 5-10hd groups of calves will bring more

 

[Angus Cowman]

One of the richest old cattlemen i know does everthing about as assbackwards as you possiblely can.Never culls a cow or a bull never preg check vacinates or worms, don't cut bull calves. As a matter a fact i am sure he has cattle that has never been inside a corral.Buys bulls of one breed 15 to 20 at a time. Runs brahma Char Brangus Herford and Jersey bulls. If he is driving down the road and see a bunch of bull he likes the breed does not make any difference he will stop and buy how ever many he wants. If he needs money he sells calves if not he don't. Have saw his cows nursing three years worth of calves at the same time because he did not sell for two years. He don't wean calves either. But he is a millionaire several times over. He makes all the money he need so why change.

that is fine this topic was started as a question for me to understand why some people don't utilize all the available management practices and tools available to them when it isn't that hard to do

it wasn't intended to offend or criticize anyone on their choices or practices

 

[AngusLimoX]

I'm curious what part of Ontario you hail from? We see a lot of stubborn greybeards around here that don't want to vaccinate, don't want to preg test, etc, etc and complain about what they receive in the fall. The flip side is all the land is paid for and they just need something to complain about while they still make a decent living. Enough large stocker and feedlot operations here that large lots still make the most sense.

I am near Belleville. Hoards is the main barn.

The greybeards may be the last thing between you losing your shirt and stayin in cattle. Don't sell em short.They don't like doing things they don't get paid for.

 

[shaz]

Just got done working calves and getting ready for the sale. It's the graded sale in Fayettville Tn and I suspect I'm going to get my "Obama" kicked. The largest is an 800lb black steer. The smallest one is a 400lb read heifer :???: It's a long story....

Went to great lengths to fix my calving season but it won't happen this year or next. In reality the negligent farmers are doing better than me. They're not building fences or working cows.

 

[longtimelurker]

High quality uniform calves bring more money, these uniform calves come from high quality uniformed cows and bulls. How much more money does it cost to obtain high quality uniformed cows and bulls versus high quality non uniformed cows and bulls? Does it cost $50 more for the uniformed cows and bulls per year?

 

[highgrit]

Red bull breeder you must have met uncle Ernie.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

The old man i am talking about is 94 or 95 years old and yes he made his self a rich man with cattle. Now he has made some more millions selling a bunch of land to Arkansas Game and Fish. Sold them 2800 acres for 8.3 million dollars. but that was just 5 years ago. Its is not that he runs the most efficent operation it is that once a dollar gets in his pocket it stays there. He owns from 15 to 20 sections of land.Where most of us would spend money spraying and making other inprovments he is content to just keep it bushogged. Not saying what he does is the right way because i don't think it is, but it works and has worked for him. When he sells calves they will almost always be ten to fifteen head just stress out and die. Doctility just doesn't enter into the picture. He figures gentle cattle get stolen. He could make more money with a more uniform set of cattle but he ain't gonna spend the money to change his whole herd.

 

[BC]

As to why more producers don't sell a more uniform calf crop, most don't sell over 10 at a time. The vareage herd size around here is 31. For every 200 to 300 cow herd, here are 30 to 40 herds with less than 20 head.

If I had the land resources and cow numbers, I would seek out ways to sell in large groups. It will make $3 to $6 per cwt. more to sell in groups (10 or more) that are same sex, weight and quality no matter what color.

it helps if they are all the same color

That is the reason that the co-mingled, preconditioned sales are gaining in popularity.

The co-mingle sales are a great thing and a person should utilize them when they can

but if an operator with 30 hd has a closed breeding season and he runs uniform cows then even the 5-10hd groups of calves will bring more

What I meant by that "no matter what color" was the calves do not have to be black to get a premium even though that is the quickest way to start making them uniform. You will have to hunt long and hard to find a sale barn in East Texas that has the pen space to sort a bunch of 5 to 10 head groups. Those calves will be mixed in the jackpot pens that hold 75 to 100 head.

 

[fargus]

I'm curious what part of Ontario you hail from? We see a lot of stubborn greybeards around here that don't want to vaccinate, don't want to preg test, etc, etc and complain about what they receive in the fall. The flip side is all the land is paid for and they just need something to complain about while they still make a decent living. Enough large stocker and feedlot operations here that large lots still make the most sense.

I am near Belleville. Hoards is the main barn.

The greybeards may be the last thing between you losing your shirt and stayin in cattle. Don't sell em short.They don't like doing things they don't get paid for.

I hear ya. I don't mind them. It's the fella's that don't want to do things they DO get paid for, like vaccinating. It's an awful long truck-ride to get to the barns that do the presort sales up here. There are a few from the North Shore of Huron, and some even in the Ottawa Valley come down to Keady and Hanover to sell each fall. They sure get nailed on shrink, but they must see some value in hauling them that far.

 

[alacattleman]

ya'll dont mind angus cowman... he's one of those guys that make a living with cattle so naturally he's got to operate it like a business

It must be mighty uncomfortable being the perfect operator, seeing he has to operate with your head up his arse.
Hope you don't wear that big hat while up there.

:lol2: no it just aint hard for some folks to see,,,, as it is others X-lax

 

[AngusLimoX]

ya'll dont mind angus cowman... he's one of those guys that make a living with cattle so naturally he's got to operate it like a business

It must be mighty uncomfortable being the perfect operator, seeing he has to operate with your head up his arse.
Hope you don't wear that big hat while up there.

:lol2: no it just aint hard for some folks to see,,,, as it is others X-lax

:lol: Good one. :clap:

I imagine that is a product you might be familiar with seeing as your brain appears constipated, then again you do have the runs with your yap!! :banana:

Lurker - lets put some numbers on it - what is the "premium" on a set of uniform calves as opposed to disparate groups, assuming the same weight and all healthy. Some have said $25 a head ( I am assuming on 5-6 weights ). That seems high to me.

Some of the operators that put these rag tag groups together spend almost nothing on breeding/meds/supplements or the initial purchase of cattle. They take the "grass in front of cow, bull behind cow" thing to the enth degree.

And maybe, on a per head basis - their profit is more than the people spending to produce uniform groups??

 

[alacattleman]

It must be mighty uncomfortable being the perfect operator, seeing he has to operate with your head up his arse.
Hope you don't wear that big hat while up there.[/quote]
:lol2: no it just aint hard for some folks to see,,,, as it is others X-lax[/quote]

:lol: Good one. :clap:

I imagine that is a product you might be familiar with seeing as your brain appears constipated, then again you do have the runs with your yap!! :banana:

Lurker - lets put some numbers on it - what is the "premium" on a set of uniform calves as opposed to disparate groups, assuming the same weight and all healthy. Some have said $25 a head ( I am assuming on 5-6 weights ). That seems high to me.

Some of the operators that put these rag tag groups together spend almost nothing on breeding/meds/supplements or the initial purchase of cattle. They take the "grass in front of cow, bull behind cow" thing to the enth degree.

And maybe, on a per head basis - their profit is more than the people spending to produce uniform groups??[/quote] put together all the numbers you want.. dont give a dam one way or other want you and loghead lurker think you can stick cedibility up you ass..
:cowboy:

 

[Idaman]

ALX --and maybe, on a per head basis - their profit is more than the people spending to produce uniform groups??[/quote]

What is this spending?

 

[alacattleman]

ALX --and maybe, on a per head basis - their profit is more than the people spending to produce uniform groups??

What is this spending?[/quote] give him a minute,, he's gotta ask lurker first,, he just does the mouth work
:cowboy:

 

[Angus Cowman]

ALX --and maybe, on a per head basis - their profit is more than the people spending to produce uniform groups??

What is this spending?[/quote]
Lets say everything is equal as far as operating cost go, as that is what I based my question on
same shots,mineral and feed situation
it doesn't cost ANYMORE to take care of that uniform herd than it does to care for a Rainbow herd
I know several guys that run a Rainbow herd and manage their operation pretty close to the same as mine

and at the end of the yr I have more $$ in my pocket than they do

on 6 wgts around here the difference can be as much as $50-60 per hd on the calves