Gate Opener
Well-known member
I know when I was growing up there wasn't such a thing as trash pickup in the country. We burned ours and then buried it in a deep hole. Others did the same thing.
7 heifers 1 bull all dead
- Thread starter novatech
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ArrowHBrand
Well-known member
dun":161ob2jq said:
I apologize, but I should have explained myself a little better. My comment about being too cheap to pay for trash pick up, I was meaning the lady that we bought our place from. That comment was not directed to anyone else. You had to know this lady, she was a real piece of work. Sorry if I offended anybody.
Environmental law has gotten way out of hand. As the fed law is now: If something needs to be cleaned up on a piece of land, every one that has ever had anything to do with that piece of land is responsible. Even if you have no knowledge of previous used, you can be held liable. If you sell the land and the next fellow finds something that the fellow before you left you still have to pay.
polledbull
Well-known member
was the pasture recently sprayed with MSMA for grass control,or been sprayed several times in a period of time , you may have found your problem. Alot of folks use MSMA and it is very high in arsonic .
novatech
Well-known member
No MSMA. And it is interesting that you briught that up. My brother just PM'd me about a guy that lost a bull and also used MSMA. It was also brought up on another post about grass burrs,suggesting it might be used. It is for turff grass only.polledbull":ja8skfku said:
http://www.lsuagcenter.com/livestock/an ... estock.htm
polledbull":19ksspgv said:
I looked at the label for MSMA. The one thing I noticed was "do not graze". Didin't give any time frame. I would guess it's not a pasture herbicide. My queston is, why would anyone use it for pasture or hay fields?
novatech
Well-known member
It will kill out most everything but bremudagrass. At TSC is is sold as crabgrass killer. It is also used to killout dallasgrass. sandburrs nutsedge and all broadleaf weeds. It will also kill St. Agustine grass. After researching it I bought some for a bremuda grass lawn. It would be great for establishment of hybred bremuda if it just wouldn,t kill the cows.dun":212pdoui said:
Workinonit Farm":1c1eh14i said:
I am pretty sure that our place used to be a dump. Every now and again, stuff like old tires will stick up out of the ground. Man, it would suck to lose that many cattle because of something you have no control over at all. Can he get any kind of financial recourse at all?
dun":3sq4kggt said:
That is what I thought. There is an old hospital in Cleburne that has set empty for years because it has asbestos in it and no one wants to clean it up. You can't implode the building either, because it would make the asbestos ariborne. But I had heard that if it were taken out and disposed of, and later, if someone wanted that site cleaned up, then the people that disposed of it originally would be responsible for digging it up and redisposing it. That's insane. So t here sits this old ugely eyesore of a building that can't be utilized for anything because of a chemical that we didn't know would harm anyone when the building was originally built.
AngusLimoX
Well-known member
Jogeephus":1xk2920k said:The best advice I can give you on this one is to take the pill and find out what is really happening before you get the eco-gestapo on your property cause I promise you - its going to cost you.
I'll shut up now.
We are a long ways away but it is EXACTLY the same here. Stay out of those guys radar!
ALX
ETF
Well-known member
Listen to Jogeephus and ALX. I'm an environmental consultant specializing in the cleanup of hazardous wastes. I can't speak to your state laws, but the only out your friend had was to have a Phase I Environmental Site Assessment done prior to purchase of the property and to have done nothing that could be related to the contamination since taking over ownership of the property. Unless both of those conditions are met, the current owner is generally held liable.
Arsenic is an element and occurs naturally throughout the country. It can be difficult to determine what is naturally occurring and what isn't. Nailing that down is expensive and the cleanup is typically even more expensive - low thousands of dollars at a minimum up to hundreds of thousands or millions depending on the extent of the problem - not to mention legal fees, land devaluation, etc. I feel for your friend but the loss of the cattle is the least of his concerns.
Arsenic is an element and occurs naturally throughout the country. It can be difficult to determine what is naturally occurring and what isn't. Nailing that down is expensive and the cleanup is typically even more expensive - low thousands of dollars at a minimum up to hundreds of thousands or millions depending on the extent of the problem - not to mention legal fees, land devaluation, etc. I feel for your friend but the loss of the cattle is the least of his concerns.
Wow, you have my sympathies too; but, I would also have to agree that the dead cattle could be the least of your concerns. I am pretty sure that humans can build a resistance to certain level of arsenic when exposed over a gradual period of time. It would stand to reason that cattle could as well - we often share other similarities? Sorry, I don't have documentation to back this up right now. Good Luck. My father in law bought a farm many years ago that was also used for an informal garbage dump - to this day they are still finding "treasures"...
Here's my historical dealings with arsenic in cattle. We used to live just south of a dry lake bed that dumped arsenic laden dust on us any time there was a north wind. We would have a problem with bloat in some of the cattle and would have to tube them. Those same animals would bloat everytime we had a north wind. When butchered they had lesions on their livers and they're joints has calcification. Some animals never bloated and when butchered had normal livers and joints. UC Davis came up with the same baisc idea that I had. "Some animals aren;t bothered much if any by inhaling arsenic dust, toher animlas are." Their solution was to not expose the animals to the dust. Morons acted like we did it by choice.
I noticed you said "used to live" - obviously a good move. At least you were able to get the mysterious problem identified - which seems to be the 2nd worst part; the worst being the and there's pretty much nothing you can do to fix it (other than avoidance - which isn't always in your control). Don't you "love it" when you get a response like this? It makes you want to say - so when can I bring them over to your place (it's not like you can ask them to stop breathing (or drinking in his case))...
Those poor animals. So sorry for your loss. We lost a heifer and calf last spring when they entered an open gate to an oilwell electrical transformer. They were electricuted and though I was paid damages, still felt horrible for the animals. I hope you get compensation for your loss as well, good luck.
