"$2 million per minute"

[Bright Raven]

1. Wrong. The united states was founded on capitalism. It is not true capitalism today.

What do you call it? Your response did not address that. If it is not capitalism, is it communism or socialism, what? Give me a word that you call it.

 

[Fieldhand]

The stock doesn't carry financial interest? Then who benefits from the 4.5 Trillion in assets?





I will get around to answering your
question.

 

[Bright Raven]

The stock doesn't carry financial interest? Then who benefits from the 4.5 Trillion in assets?

You are missing the point my fine friend. The stock is not publicly traded. The stock is held ONLY, ONLY by member banks. It CANNOT be publicly traded.

In regard to who benefits, the member banks benefit because it permits them to have access to the Federal Reserve central banks.

 

[Fieldhand]

Roughly 20.7 Trillion dollars guaranteed by United States tax payers at an interest rate their very organization determines.

And you still think this is about publicly trading the stock?

HaHaHa

 

[Fieldhand]

In the field of psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental discomfort (psychological stress) experienced by a person who simultaneously holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values. The occurrence of cognitive dissonance is a consequence of a person performing an action that contradicts personal beliefs, ideals, and values; and also occurs when confronted with new information that contradicts said beliefs, ideals, and values.[1][2]

Do you feel it yet?

 

[Bright Raven]

Roughly 20.7 Trillion dollars guaranteed by United States tax payers at an interest rate their very organization determines.

And you still think this is about publicly trading the stock?

HaHaHa

You are avoiding the topic. You said that the US Federal Reserve issues publicly traded stock. I presented information to the contrary. It is not publicly traded. It is privately held by member banks.

Secondly, you have not addressed what you call the US economic system. You say it is not capitalism. Then what are you calling it?

 

[Fieldhand]

Roughly 20.7 Trillion dollars guaranteed by United States tax payers at an interest rate their very organization determines.

And you still think this is about publicly trading the stock?

HaHaHa

You are avoiding the topic. You said that the US Federal Reserve issues publicly traded stock. I presented information to the contrary. It is not publicly traded. It is privately held by member banks.

Secondly, you have not addressed what you call the US economic system. You say it is not capitalism. Then what are you calling it?

Please source that statement.

 

[Bright Raven]

You are avoiding the topic. You said that the US Federal Reserve issues publicly traded stock. I presented information to the contrary. It is not publicly traded. It is privately held by member banks.

Please source that statement.

The Federal Reserve Banks are set up like private corporations. Member banks hold stock in the Federal Reserve Banks and earn dividends. Holding this stock does not carry with it the control and financial interest given to holders of common stock in for-profit organizations. The stock may not be sold or pledged as collateral for loans. Member banks also appoint six of the nine members of each Bank's board of directors. See reference below.

https://www.stlouisfed.org/in-plain-eng ... erve-banks

 

[Fieldhand]

You are avoiding the topic. You said that the US Federal Reserve issues publicly traded stock. I presented information to the contrary. It is not publicly traded. It is privately held by member banks.

Please source that statement.

The Federal Reserve Banks are set up like private corporations. Member banks hold stock in the Federal Reserve Banks and earn dividends. Holding this stock does not carry with it the control and financial interest given to holders of common stock in for-profit organizations. The stock may not be sold or pledged as collateral for loans. Member banks also appoint six of the nine members of each Bank's board of directors. See reference below.

https://www.stlouisfed.org/in-plain-eng ... erve-banks

Almost funny. Where did I say they were public?

 

[Bright Raven]

Almost funny. Where did I say they were public?

The US Federal Reserve is not a publicly traded entity with stockholders.

All stock is publicly traded?

Try again.

Your words - All stock is publicly traded

 

[Bright Raven]

Let's agree: the US Federal Reserve Banks issue non-publicly traded stock to member banks. These stocks cannot be publicly sold.

That brings us near the end. The only lose end is: what do you call the USA economic system if you deny that it is capitalism?

 

[bball]

Raven, he asked the question, sarcastically possibly, but I believe he was asking the question, "All stock is publicly traded?"

 

[Bright Raven]

Raven, he asked the question, sarcastically possibly, but I believe he was asking the question, "All stock is publicly traded?"

All stock is not publicly traded is the response.

If we are at an understanding on that so much the better. As I stated if we agree the US Federal Reserve Banks issue non-publicly traded stock to member banks, then we can move to the finale: what do you call the USA economic system if you deny that it is capitalism?

 

[bball]

Raven, he asked the question, sarcastically possibly, but I believe he was asking the question, "All stock is publicly traded?"

All stock is not publicly traded is the response.

Agreed. Which i believe is his point. Hence, the beneficiaries of the Federal Reserve 'system' are the member banks reaping the interest from the tax payer dollars while the FR sets the interest rate. Basically, FR controls the money and thereby our nation....if I follow him fieldhand correctly.

 

[Bright Raven]

Raven, he asked the question, sarcastically possibly, but I believe he was asking the question, "All stock is publicly traded?"

All stock is not publicly traded is the response.

Agreed. Which i believe is his point. Hence, the beneficiaries of the Federal Reserve 'system' are the member banks reaping the interest from the tax payer dollars while the FR sets the interest rate. Basically, FR controls the money and thereby our nation....if I follow him fieldhand correctly.

I dare say they don't control the nation. You might think about that. That is a great canyon to span. But if we have agreement on that, all that remains is addressing the type economic system the USA utilizes.

 

[Anonymous]

All stock is not publicly traded is the response.

Agreed. Which i believe is his point. Hence, the beneficiaries of the Federal Reserve 'system' are the member banks reaping the interest from the tax payer dollars while the FR sets the interest rate. Basically, FR controls the money and thereby our nation....if I follow him fieldhand correctly.

I dare say they don't control the nation. You might think about that. That is a great canyon to span. But if we have agreement on that, all that remains is addressing the type economic system the USA utilizes.

With all the industries that are subsidized, I don't think you can call our economy 100% capitalist today. From car manufacturers to farms to power grids to transportation and almost everything in between has some strong govt influence. Some are subsidized more than others. That is not capitalism.

 

[bball]

Agreed. Which i believe is his point. Hence, the beneficiaries of the Federal Reserve 'system' are the member banks reaping the interest from the tax payer dollars while the FR sets the interest rate. Basically, FR controls the money and thereby our nation....if I follow him fieldhand correctly.

I dare say they don't control the nation. You might think about that. That is a great canyon to span. But if we have agreement on that, all that remains is addressing the type economic system the USA utilizes.

With all the industries that are subsidized, I don't think you can call our economy 100% capitalist today. From car manufacturers to farms to power grids to transportation and almost everything in between has some strong govt influence. Some are subsidized more than others. That is not capitalism.

Is there a historical precedent for what our economy has 'evolved into? Or, is this unchartered waters. Anxiously awaiting Fieldhands answer to BR question.

 

[Bright Raven]

Agreed. Which i believe is his point. Hence, the beneficiaries of the Federal Reserve 'system' are the member banks reaping the interest from the tax payer dollars while the FR sets the interest rate. Basically, FR controls the money and thereby our nation....if I follow him fieldhand correctly.

I dare say they don't control the nation. You might think about that. That is a great canyon to span. But if we have agreement on that, all that remains is addressing the type economic system the USA utilizes.

With all the industries that are subsidized, I don't think you can call our economy 100% capitalist today. From car manufacturers to farms to power grids to transportation and almost everything in between has some strong govt influence. Some are subsidized more than others. That is not capitalism.

Nor is China pure communism. I am only asking Mr. Fieldhand to provide a definition.

 

[Fieldhand]

Is there a reason we can not all join in the conversation?

If this is a test of personal noesis, I'm afraid I failed that test long ago as I've posted quotes and data that were not my own.

I was under the impression this was a group conversation on a forum.


Anyhow, carrying on.

Can we judge a tree by it's fruit?

Was a tree of capitalism planted?

What is capitalism?

If I may borrow yet again, American Heritage Dictionary, Capitalism:

An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.


So what are the fruits of our system?

~ 20.7 trillion in debt owed to banks.




This is money borrowed is it not?


Who owes this debt? The United States Government, backed by the tax payers of the United States.

Do you understand what this means?

Let's look at borrowing money to simply purchase a car. What legally occurs? Who owns the car? You know what a lien is.

"Just because you hold the piece of paper that serves as certificate of title doesn't mean you own the car free and clear. Regardless of who holds the piece of paper, if a lienholder is listed on the title, that lienholder has a right to the car."

~ 20.7 Trillion in debt and GROWING by factors. Who really owns the means of production and distribution of the United States?

What happened to the tree of capitalism that was planted in the government of the United States by We The People?

We The People still exist. Consider them the roots of our tree. The government the trunk.

What happens when you cut a newly growing tree off at the level of the trunk, with the branches that would bear it's fruit are thrown to the ground, and in it's place, a new scion is inserted? Who's fruit will the tree bear? The fruit of the roots, or of the scion?




This scion is the federal reserve. The United States was not created with a central bank. It's fruit is not capitalism with profits gained in a free society.

You see the roots and trunk but ignore the fruit they are bearing.




Fruit:

"Wednesday's hearing described a secretive group deploying billions of dollars to favored banks, operating with little oversight by the public or elected officials.
We're talking about the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, whose role as the most influential part of the federal-reserve system -- apart from the matter of AIG's bailout -- deserves further congressional scrutiny."

"the New York Fed is a quasi-governmental institution that isn't subject to citizen intrusions such as freedom of information requests"

"This impenetrability comes in handy since the bank is the preferred vehicle for many of the Fed's bailout programs. It's as though the New York Fed was a black-ops outfit for the nation's central bank."

"That decision, critics say, amounted to a back-door bailout for the banks, which received 100 cents on the dollar for contracts that would have been worth far less had AIG been allowed to fail."

"As Representative Marcy Kapturtold Geithner at the hearing: "A lot of people think that the president of the New York Fed works for the U.S. government. But in fact you work for the private banks that elected you."
"And yet the New York Fed played an integral role in the government's bailout of banks, often receiving surprisingly free rein to act as it saw fit."

You should go read the entire article.

https://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid ... IuE.W8RAuU

Oops. It's no longer available, imagine that. So many original sources disappearing lately. Interesting really.

But someone was nice enough to archive it for us.

http://archive.is/czBHF


The bankers decided which banks they wanted to bail out at 100% securitization. The tax payers were given the bill along with being charged interest at the level desired by the banks themselves. Of which the bill and interest is secured by the property of the tax payers....consider this a lien.

How do the United States tax payers posses the private ownership of the means of production and distribution when more or less the value of the entire system will shortly be mortgaged giving banks the rights, and government the means by taxation.

Have you not seen what has happened around the world?

"The European debt crisis (often also referred to as the Eurozone crisis or the European sovereign debt crisis) is a multi-year debt crisis that has been taking place in the European Union since the end of 2009. Several eurozone member states (Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain and Cyprus) were unable to repay or refinance their government debt or to bail out over-indebted banks under their national supervision without the assistance of third parties like other Eurozone countries, the European Central Bank (ECB), or the International Monetary Fund (IMF)."

The federal reserve system (central bank) is not by accident.

What was the reason used to gain its implementation? Did it serve its purpose?

Who is considered the founding father of international finance?

There is much more to uncover, you're welcome to step out of the group discussion at any time.

 

[bball]

Is there a reason we can not all join in the conversation?

If this is a test of personal noesis, I'm afraid I failed that test long ago as I've posted quotes and data that were not my own.

I was under the impression this was a group conversation on a forum.


Anyhow, carrying on.

Can we judge a tree by it's fruit?

Was a tree of capitalism planted?

What is capitalism?

If I may borrow yet again, American Heritage Dictionary, Capitalism:

An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.


So what are the fruits of our system?

~ 20.7 trillion in debt owed to banks.




This is money borrowed is it not?


Who owes this debt? The United States Government, backed by the tax payers of the United States.

Do you understand what this means?

Let's look at borrowing money to simply purchase a car. What legally occurs? Who owns the car? You know what a lien is.

"Just because you hold the piece of paper that serves as certificate of title doesn't mean you own the car free and clear. Regardless of who holds the piece of paper, if a lienholder is listed on the title, that lienholder has a right to the car."

~ 20.7 Trillion in debt and GROWING by factors. Who really owns the means of production and distribution of the United States?

What happened to the tree of capitalism that was planted in the government of the United States by We The People?

We The People still exist. Consider them the roots of our tree. The government the trunk.

What happens when you cut a newly growing tree off at the level of the trunk, with the branches that would bear it's fruit are thrown to the ground, and in it's place, a new scion is inserted? Who's fruit will the tree bear? The fruit of the roots, or of the scion?




This scion is the federal reserve. The United States was not created with a central bank. It's fruit is not capitalism with profits gained in a free society.

You see the roots and trunk but ignore the fruit they are bearing.




Fruit:

"Wednesday's hearing described a secretive group deploying billions of dollars to favored banks, operating with little oversight by the public or elected officials.
We're talking about the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, whose role as the most influential part of the federal-reserve system -- apart from the matter of AIG's bailout -- deserves further congressional scrutiny."

"the New York Fed is a quasi-governmental institution that isn't subject to citizen intrusions such as freedom of information requests"

"This impenetrability comes in handy since the bank is the preferred vehicle for many of the Fed's bailout programs. It's as though the New York Fed was a black-ops outfit for the nation's central bank."

"That decision, critics say, amounted to a back-door bailout for the banks, which received 100 cents on the dollar for contracts that would have been worth far less had AIG been allowed to fail."

"As Representative Marcy Kapturtold Geithner at the hearing: "A lot of people think that the president of the New York Fed works for the U.S. government. But in fact you work for the private banks that elected you."
"And yet the New York Fed played an integral role in the government's bailout of banks, often receiving surprisingly free rein to act as it saw fit."

You should go read the entire article.

https://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid ... IuE.W8RAuU

Oops. It's no longer available, imagine that. So many original sources disappearing lately. Interesting really.

But someone was nice enough to archive it for us.

http://archive.is/czBHF


The bankers decided which banks they wanted to bail out at 100% securitization. The tax payers were given the bill along with being charged interest at the level desired by the banks themselves. Of which the bill and interest is secured by the property of the tax payers....consider this a lien.

How do the United States tax payers posses the private ownership of the means of production and distribution when more or less the value of the entire system will shortly be mortgaged giving banks the rights, and government the means by taxation.

Have you not seen what has happened around the world?

"The European debt crisis (often also referred to as the Eurozone crisis or the European sovereign debt crisis) is a multi-year debt crisis that has been taking place in the European Union since the end of 2009. Several eurozone member states (Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain and Cyprus) were unable to repay or refinance their government debt or to bail out over-indebted banks under their national supervision without the assistance of third parties like other Eurozone countries, the European Central Bank (ECB), or the International Monetary Fund (IMF)."

The federal reserve system (central bank) is not by accident.

What was the reason used to gain its implementation? Did it serve its purpose?

Who is considered the founding father of international finance?

There is much more to uncover, you're welcome to step out of the group discussion at any time.

Fascinating post.
It is a group discussion I believe.
I'm not certain why the comment about personal noesis. This is one of the more interesting threads on the CT boards imo.

Rothschild is considered the father of international finance(by most accounts).

The FR was created to provide stability to a fairly unstable American banking system plagued by massive runs during times of financial uncertainty; panic, failed banks or money crunches(Very brief, simplistic answer. Of course there is far more involved.) This stability is 'provided' by regulation, monitoring and it's role as a 'last ditch' lending institution during periods of mass panic or bail out of failed 'big time' players [whose failure would: (a. drive foreign investors from the American marketplace and b.) immediately negatively impact finances in our country.]

Has it served it's purpose? Great question. Some would blame the FR for the Great Depression. Some would also credit the FR with saving this nations bacon immediately following 9/11. Has it provided stability? Generally, Yes. The real question becomes, at what cost and to whom?