2 rounds of shots ?

[sstterry]

As a buyer of calves, it doesn't make much difference to me if they're weaned longer than 45 days. We haven't yet bought any with no vaccines at all, supposedly anyway. Our end goal is to have them vaccinated twice so we will give one round of vacs regardless if they've had one or two previously.

I would say if you're selling in smaller groups, vaccinated once or twice doesn't really matter. There's bound to be some that are only vaccinated once in the buyers load, so they'll vaccinate all of them anyway. If you're selling in big groups, vaccinated twice should bring a slight premium.

What kind of setup do you use to vaccinate that many calves at once?

 

[Lucky_P]

4hfarm,
If you're not doing at least a Clostridial bacterin/toxoid, your 'no vax' policy will eventually jump up and bite you in the butt. It's just as matter of time before you have an encounter with Blackleg...and it won't be pretty.
When I was a kid, my dad & uncle di ddg nt vaccinate...until one year, when we lost about half the calf crop...there were dead calves scattered all around the farm. After that, we always gave at least 2 rounds of Clostridial bacterin/toxoid.

We did it all, though did not keep weaned calves 90 days. Like bigfoot, I doubt that I EVER got adequately rewarded for having gone to the effort & expense of weaning and properly vaccinating calves against BRD pathogens.

 

[kenny thomas]

Do you recommend implanting at that young age?

A very well respected Vet and Professor at Virginia Tech was ask in a meeting how early he recommended an implant. His reply was that it was hard to hold the ear until after the cow got the calf cleaned up but otherwise he would implant and band or castrate the moment the calf was born.

 

[Muletrack]

It seems in the spring time, there is the most demand for 500# steers, which keeps me clear of that range.

Darn, that's when I like to sell!

 

[TCRanch]

Two rounds always, weaned a minimum of 45 days but have kept them 180, contingent on the market, whether we let them graze the brome over the winter and whether we need to apply the income on the current year's taxes.

 

[WFfarm]

Two rounds and weaned about 30 days. Band at birth. Ours go straight to a private buyer. He request Inforce3 nasal 3-4 days before shipping also. We had one bull calf that was pinched at the start of weaning. He was the only one out of 50 that lost a little weight in the thirty days of weaning.

 

[KAstocker]

What kind of setup do you use to vaccinate that many calves at once?

We just have a couple sorting pens that go to a 10' wide alley that goes to a bud box that goes to a narrow alley and head gate. We get 3-4 in the alert at once. I'll get around 35 calves this year so it's not a huge ordeal. Eventually I'll get a squeeze chute.

 

[KAstocker]

Darn, that's when I like to sell!

What I mean to say is that during March and April, 500# steers seem to be too expensive for me to buy. That would be a good time for the cow calf guy to sell 500# steers. Below that weight, you're probably leaving good money on the table. Higher than that weight, you probably won't get paid much for the added weight. That's at least how it seems to be around here.

 

[Buck Randall]

A very well respected Vet and Professor at Virginia Tech was ask in a meeting how early he recommended an implant. His reply was that it was hard to hold the ear until after the cow got the calf cleaned up but otherwise he would implant and band or castrate the moment the calf was born.

I hold the same opinion. Implant and castrate at birth, and if you handle them again before weaning, hit them with another implant.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

My protocol is two rounds, and wean for 215 days.

 

[sstterry]

My protocol is two rounds, and wean for 215 days.

 

[Silver]

I hold the same opinion. Implant and castrate at birth, and if you handle them again before weaning, hit them with another implant.

That's really interesting. I searched all over the internet regarding Ralgro at birth, couldn't find anything definitive. Seemed to me that Ralgro was approved for newborn calves. Called Merck support and was told that it was not approved for calves under 30 days. She was obviously reading from a computer screen. She kept telling me it would cause problems with sexual function later on. I kept trying to tell her I didn't want it for intact bulls, but she didn't seem to understand. So in the end I didn't do it this year. I was going to as you @Buck Randall what your thoughts were.

 

[Silver]

As far as shots, bunk breaking, keeping 45 to 90 days etc. there's not a chance I'll do that until they pay me for the time and expense. My cow herd is well vaccinated, and I wean my sale calves onto a trailer and off they go.
Calves are banded and dehorned with paste at birth.

 

[Buck Randall]

That's really interesting. I searched all over the internet regarding Ralgro at birth, couldn't find anything definitive. Seemed to me that Ralgro was approved for newborn calves. Called Merck support and was told that it was not approved for calves under 30 days. She was obviously reading from a computer screen. She kept telling me it would cause problems with sexual function later on. I kept trying to tell her I didn't want it for intact bulls, but she didn't seem to understand. So in the end I didn't do it this year. I was going to as you @Buck Randall what your thoughts were.

Talking with customer support people on the hotline can be frustrating. For one, they're not farmers or veterinarians, so they often have no understanding of the product outside of the script they're given. Beyond that, legal liability issues are going to prevent them from telling you anything outside of the strict label use. The local company representatives and support people will usually be more candid with you in person, though I've occasionally seen them more preoccupied with making a sale than being strictly honest.

As a veterinarian who has never met you and isn't licensed in your area, I can't tell you to use a product off label. I can say that if I owned a nice herd of red cows in Canada, I'd be putting a Ralgro implant in my steer calves when I handled them at birth.

 

[Rydero]

As far as shots, bunk breaking, keeping 45 to 90 days etc. there's not a chance I'll do that until they pay me for the time and expense. My cow herd is well vaccinated, and I wean my sale calves onto a trailer and off they go.
Calves are banded and dehorned with paste at birth.

Somewhat the same. I do blackleg as I'm hauling them out and I'm doing Inforce as I tag and castrate them at a couple days old. I like to do One-Shot when I wean the light ones.

I'll gladly follow almost any protocol a buyer wants and is willing to compensate me for. But they don't so I just do things I think will save them in their time with me and do my best to keep them in good health.

 

[Rydero]

I should add most importantly. We make every effort possible to make sure every single calf has colostrum within 4 hrs of birth and I very much prefer less than an hr but that's usually on the calf.

 

[Silver]

But they don't so I just do things I think will save them in their time with me and do my best to keep them in good health.

Same here. I also give the newborns a Toltrazuril capsule at birth for the same reason. Also try to stay on top of colostrum. Healthy starts pay dividends.

 

[Silver]

Talking with customer support people on the hotline can be frustrating. For one, they're not farmers or veterinarians, so they often have no understanding of the product outside of the script they're given. Beyond that, legal liability issues are going to prevent them from telling you anything outside of the strict label use. The local company representatives and support people will usually be more candid with you in person, though I've occasionally seen them more preoccupied with making a sale than being strictly honest.

As a veterinarian who has never met you and isn't licensed in your area, I can't tell you to use a product off label. I can say that if I owned a nice herd of red cows in Canada, I'd be putting a Ralgro implant in my steer calves when I handled them at birth.

Thanks Buck, appreciate your point of view on the matter.

 

[Rydero]

Same here. I also give the newborns a Toltrazuril capsule at birth for the same reason. Also try to stay on top of colostrum. Healthy starts pay dividends.

Toltrazuril is definitely on my radar I'm not saying why I don't yet because it'll be bad luck, lol. But I'm sure it'll be something I do.as well.

Healthy.starts are so important. Some of the articles/info on timing of colostrum intake is very interesting. When I read through the Inforce 3 instructions I believe I read it has an effect from that initial dose at weaning...I'll have to re-check.

I started pretty early on (mostly for watering/space reasons) moving the older pairs out into a small pasture (maybe 10acres) that rarely sees use in the summer instead of a pen and I feel the healthier environment eliminates a lot of.problems. Been mulling over either moving the 3 week and older calves or dropping the newer stuff into a different one based on some of the info I'm seeing on the grass calving system where they leave the older calves behind. Water and the pain in the butt of running additional pens is holding me back.

 

[Bigfoot]

Same here. I also give the newborns a Toltrazuril capsule at birth for the same reason. Also try to stay on top of colostrum. Healthy starts pay dividends.

Got a free education today. Never heard of treating at birth.