Would You Go To A Sale......

[JWBrahman]

We agree about the showing everything in the video without making people take an airplane just to see the animal below the hocks. A while back I made a humorous post about that very same thing...

A wise lady from Winnsboro, Texas told me something many years ago. Although I have never found any university studies to back it up there is plenty of real world evidence to prove her hypothesis. She told me that too much soy will make an animal weak in the pasterns, and as soon as you reduce the soy or cut it out altogether the animal will straighten back up.

Considering how much is at stake for seedstock/show breeders to have that bull with a YW box in the top percentile for the breed you can understand how some would push their show or sale cattle too hard with too much soy.

 

[TexasBred]

I'd take that with a grain of salt or someone would have already used the challenge for his thesis. Most folks in the south use Cottonseed meal anyway except dairies and it doesn't seem to affect them.

 

[slick4591]

Used to make a lot of sales and never had a preview of the animals. Guess I'd go on to the sale and see for myself just like I used to. If I liked what I saw I'd bid. If not, then I'd go home.

 

[mwj]

No, this was not directed at any one show or sale.
So many problems with pasterns in cattle. Straw seems to be the new place to hide it, and everyone has accepted it as "OK" to do it. When I see it, I see a warning sign.
Why drive to see what is under there? Respect the people before they drive hundreds of miles and show them now.
If they don't know what they are looking at on the video, they will still come.

''Straw the new place to hide''. Have you not looked at cattle pictures taken at any time in the last century? :???: How many miles a day do your cattle have to travel for feed and water? Should they have full and half brothers hanging on the hook so we can check carcass traits? Should we shave them to get rid of the winter hair? I would like to see them loaded into a chute so I can put my hands on them. Your best bet is just buy private and do not worry about how other people mkt. there animals. Would you let a bull buyer check out your cows before he sold you a bull or semen?

 

[dun]

With more conveniences it's become almost expacted that a seller will take advantage of them. It used to be in a sales catalog (even on line) you might get to see a picture of a particular animal you were interested in. Now buyers expect videos. One thing that has always irked me is when a catalog ill only list some of the EPDs, like BW WW YW and maybe 1 or 2 others. Then I have to go through the effort of looking the animal up on the breed association website to decice of something is in the acceptable range.

 

[JWBrahman]

Thanks Texasbred, it does make sense that somebody would have used the soy thing for a thesis if there was more to it. There is a lot of feed with soy around here, this triple mix is $180 a ton.

 

[TexasBred]

Wow roasted beans. Bet that's not a cheap feed either but certainly should be a good one.

 

[Chuckie]

Should we shave them to get rid of the winter hair?
:shock: Girl or boy?
I would like to see them loaded into a chute so I can put my hands on them.
Is this your first blind date?

 

[mwj]

Should we shave them to get rid of the winter hair?
:shock: Girl or boy?
I would like to see them loaded into a chute so I can put my hands on them.
Is this your first blind date?

Would that rank up there with people having a ''foot fetish'' that they would travel miles to fulfill? :cowboy:

 

[glacierridge]

The foot faults are a serious thing.

I had people all over me for my 3/4 BB cow having sickle hocks, which seems pretty common in the breed, tho I see them trending away more nowadays, but bad pasterns have taken down animals faster in our herd (from some char bull along the way) than the sickle hock from the BB.
Animals with poor feet just do not last as long as the strong footed.
Saw a young animal recently with popping pasterns, beautiful animal except for that. It wasn't even two and it just broke my heart because I don't know what is causing it, could it be genes, feed or injury...?
I just know that it raised concern for me for the poor creature's welfare.
What would happen to it, would it become popular or go for kill?
Is it suffering?

Too many of you pick at this subject like it's a joke, but a lot of weight is supported by those feet, I need to see them last in our cows.
Even my cow that got trashed for sickle hocks has really strong pasterns, she moves soundly and gets around well.

At the end of the day, going thru the swamp and down to the watering hole, either these get get stronger or the animals will break down and be hauled.

I gotta be watching soundness here too, improve what few are a concern or cull and keep the rest bred up to good bulls.
Don't need to slide back into a pile of problems.

 

[mwj]

Good feet are required for cattle to function. But there has to be a balance of all things involved. Someone could breed cattle with the best feet and legs in the world and still have scrub cattle. How many people run there cows and heifers thru the chute and cull for foot problems? I doubt that it is very high on the list of things to cull for UNLESS it actually effects the cows production. This is like everyone harping on overfed bulls then going to the sale and buying the fattest one because he looked ''good''. There is a ''perfect'' in any area that we look at, but it is very seldom achieved. How much of other productive traits do we give up for that one that is our pet peeve? If cattle function for you why should they have to meet my standard?

 

[glacierridge]

Good feet are required for cattle to function. But there has to be a balance of all things involved. Someone could breed cattle with the best feet and legs in the world and still have scrub cattle. How many people run there cows and heifers thru the chute and cull for foot problems? I doubt that it is very high on the list of things to cull for UNLESS it actually effects the cows production. This is like everyone harping on overfed bulls then going to the sale and buying the fattest one because he looked ''good''. There is a ''perfect'' in any area that we look at, but it is very seldom achieved. How much of other productive traits do we give up for that one that is our pet peeve? If cattle function for you why should they have to meet my standard?

Well, I don't think our stock is perfect, I haven't seen many perfect cows anywhere in my years of seeing shows and seeing farms...
But I don't think they are scrubs and I think they are highly functional at making a profit over all.
But of those with imherited weak pasterns, well over half have been culled (they were given plenty of time, many kept until 2nd calf to see if it was a youth/development issue) because they either get better or worse.
The worse... Had dew claws dragging on the ground.
The others, still don't set like they should, but have gotten strong enough to keep them in the herd. They are great dams, I'm glad they got stronger to stay on.
But it still stands, no pun intended, they still won't last as long as ones without the problems.

 

[OakCreekRanch]

I have some concerns about the bulls with weak pasterns being out in the fields with the cows. My biggest worry is that he could injure himself while servicing a cow and become crippled. That will hurt your calving season if he does not get all the cows bred at a timely fashion, or at all.

 

[dun]

Good feet are required for cattle to function. But there has to be a balance of all things involved. Someone could breed cattle with the best feet and legs in the world and still have scrub cattle. How many people run there cows and heifers thru the chute and cull for foot problems? I doubt that it is very high on the list of things to cull for UNLESS it actually effects the cows production. This is like everyone harping on overfed bulls then going to the sale and buying the fattest one because he looked ''good''. There is a ''perfect'' in any area that we look at, but it is very seldom achieved. How much of other productive traits do we give up for that one that is our pet peeve? If cattle function for you why should they have to meet my standard?

Feet and legs are one of the highest priorities for selecting cattle, wether to buy or keep.

 

[TexasBred]

Good feet are required for cattle to function. But there has to be a balance of all things involved. Someone could breed cattle with the best feet and legs in the world and still have scrub cattle. How many people run there cows and heifers thru the chute and cull for foot problems? I doubt that it is very high on the list of things to cull for UNLESS it actually effects the cows production. This is like everyone harping on overfed bulls then going to the sale and buying the fattest one because he looked ''good''. There is a ''perfect'' in any area that we look at, but it is very seldom achieved. How much of other productive traits do we give up for that one that is our pet peeve? If cattle function for you why should they have to meet my standard?

Feet and legs are one of the highest priorities for selecting cattle, wether to buy or keep.

A big amen to that !!!

 

[KNERSIE]

While I agree on selecting for soundness and longevity you've got to prioritize which faults to cull ruthlessly for and which to be more leanient on.
Straight hocks should always be top of the list
followed closely by open shoulders
really bad pasterns are often found on really posty animals because the pasterns has to help the hocks absorb the shock
lack of heal depth is a big problem that is often overlooked or misdiagnosed
just slightly weak pasterns and slightly sickle hocks and cowhocks won't shorten the productive life of the animal and should be way down on the list of culling reasons.
The degree of the fault should also play a big role and should be taken into account especially with the less important faults like sickle and cow hocks.

The big problem is when you're "knowledge" is just gathered from the internet with very little from the real world to back it up you often think you see something that isn't really there.

 

[Chuckie]

I saw David Copperfield do something like that with an Elephant.