Would you consider?

[Gate Opener]

Dun, where did you go? Now I am laughing at I Luv because they took food to the needy. Where did you go Dun? :help:

(As you can tell I don't know how to delete my other post)

 

[Dave]

One of the considerations about any type of diet is where you live and what you do for a living. Back when I worked in the woods I worked with two different vegetarians. Both of them always looked pretty sickly and were in fact sick quite often. But if you spend your days running up and down the sides of mountains in 36 degree rainy weather a person needs lots of nutrition. Everyone else ate a high meat, high fat diet and they were very trim. If a city dwelling office worker were to eat the diet that those logger ate they would weigh a ton. And when those city dwelling vegetarians tried to become loggers it almost killed them.

Most of the people here do physical labor out in all types of weather. As a result they are not good candidates to be vegetarians.

 

[3MR]

Thats the reason one of my co-workers asked how I can eat Angus burgers and fries for lunch everyday and stay thin. I told him he may go to the gym after work but I live on the gym. They always have an open invite to spend a day working on the Mills ranch and fat camp. :lol: My wife thinks I dont eat enough and my neighbors all think I am to skinny. Hard work does a body good.

 

[SilverCharm]

Dave,

All of these athletes are vegetarians...


Ridgely Abele
Winner of eight national championships in karate

Surya Bonaly
Olympic figure skating champion

Peter Burwash
Davis Cup winner and professional tennis star

Andreas Cahling
Swedish champion bodybuilder, Olympic gold medallist in the ski jump

Chris Campbell
Olympic wrestling champion

Nicky Cole
First woman to walk to the North Pole

Ruth Heidrich
Six-time Ironwoman, USA track and field Master's champion

Keith Holmes
World-champion middleweight boxer

Desmond Howard
Professional football star, Heisman trophy winner

Peter Hussing
European super heavy-weight boxing champion

Debbie Lawrence
World record holder, women's 5K racewalk

Sixto Linares
World record holder, 24-hour triathlon

Cheryl Marek and Estelle Gray
World record holders, cross-country tandem cycling

Ingra Manecki
World champion discus thrower

Bill Manetti
Power-lifting champion

Ben Matthews
U.S. Master's marathon champion

Dan Millman
World champion gymnast

Martina Navratilova
Champion tennis player

Paavo Nurmi
Long-distance runner, winner of nine Olympic medals and 20 world records

Bill Pearl
Four-time Mr. Universe

Bill Pickering
World record-holding swimmer

Stan Price
World weightlifting record holder, bench press

Murray Rose
Swimmer, winner of many Olympic gold medals and world records

Dave Scott
Six-time winner of the Ironman triathlon

Art Still
Buffalo Bills and Kansas City Chiefs MVP defensive end, Kansas City Chiefs Hall of Fame

Jane Wetzel
U.S. National marathon champion

Charlene Wong Williams
Olympic champion figure skater

A vegetarian/vegan diet is suitable for anyone, including those who do hard physical labor.

Common thought that vegetarians are 'pale and sickly'... A few may be, but by far most are not.

One thing I do agree with you is location... It might be very impractical for someone to follow a vegetarian diet very far north, etc.

 

[jw]

I looked over that list twice, did I miss any rodeo stars names? I might have over looked them.

 

[AngusLimoX]

Ever play the word association game?

Vegan = Faggot,PETA,Tree Huggin Liberal Puke, Loser, sickly, skinny, vitamin D ......

Well you get the point. Pity them in a way but their arrogance in trying to tell me what to eat draws some anger.

They remind me of that Catholic sect Opus Dei, they get a kick out of flagellating themselves, and think they are more righteous than others because of it.

ALX

 

[3MR]

They might think they are vegitarians, all that means is they are probably getting their animal protien from a bottle.

An average person might be able to get all the nutrients required through non-animal sources only, but it will require eating a considerable amount of food. Vegatables just dont have the same amount of calcium, protien, etc. as animals. Someone requiring an extended plane of nutrition is going to be hard pressed to consume enough without supplementing.

I wonder why the two vegitarian parents who were recently convicted of manslaughter for the malnutrition death of their infant child didnt use that list as a defense.

 

[3MR]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,51494,00.html

http://media.www.mesapress.com/media/st ... 7747.shtml

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4282257.stm

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/b ... o99237.htm

 

[Frankie]

Dave,

All of these athletes are vegetarians...


Ridgely Abele
Winner of eight national championships in karate

Surya Bonaly
Olympic figure skating champion

Peter Burwash
Davis Cup winner and professional tennis star

Andreas Cahling
Swedish champion bodybuilder, Olympic gold medallist in the ski jump

Chris Campbell
Olympic wrestling champion

Nicky Cole
First woman to walk to the North Pole

Ruth Heidrich
Six-time Ironwoman, USA track and field Master's champion

Keith Holmes
World-champion middleweight boxer

Desmond Howard
Professional football star, Heisman trophy winner

Peter Hussing
European super heavy-weight boxing champion

Debbie Lawrence
World record holder, women's 5K racewalk

Sixto Linares
World record holder, 24-hour triathlon

Cheryl Marek and Estelle Gray
World record holders, cross-country tandem cycling

Ingra Manecki
World champion discus thrower

Bill Manetti
Power-lifting champion

Ben Matthews
U.S. Master's marathon champion

Dan Millman
World champion gymnast

Martina Navratilova
Champion tennis player

Paavo Nurmi
Long-distance runner, winner of nine Olympic medals and 20 world records

Bill Pearl
Four-time Mr. Universe

Bill Pickering
World record-holding swimmer

Stan Price
World weightlifting record holder, bench press

Murray Rose
Swimmer, winner of many Olympic gold medals and world records

Dave Scott
Six-time winner of the Ironman triathlon

Art Still
Buffalo Bills and Kansas City Chiefs MVP defensive end, Kansas City Chiefs Hall of Fame

Jane Wetzel
U.S. National marathon champion

Charlene Wong Williams
Olympic champion figure skater

A vegetarian/vegan diet is suitable for anyone, including those who do hard physical labor.

Common thought that vegetarians are 'pale and sickly'... A few may be, but by far most are not.

One thing I do agree with you is location... It might be very impractical for someone to follow a vegetarian diet very far north, etc.

Manure. I'm not going to look up all these people and see if you're being truthful. All I had to do was look up one: Dave Scott. He's not vegan. Why would anyone believe the rest of your list is vegan?

http://www.ivu.org/people/sports/scott.html

 

[Frankie]

What you said is true (and statistics like the ones I gave are rarely reliable or accurate), but you cannot deny that most grain grown in the US is used to produce meat. Sure, a lot of meat is grassfed, but there are still many that are not. Feeding meat grain is inefficient.

Of course, I can deny that most of the grain produced in the US is fed to animals. It's another lie put out by anti-meat people. For example, they like to claim we feed soybeans to cattle. That's ridiculous on the face of it because of the price of soybeans and the price of meat. We feed soy MEAL which is made after the oil has been extracted from the beans. Corn fed to animals is mostly corn that won't pass USDA inspection for human consumption or that needs to be removed from storage so a new crop can be stored.

Let me ask you this: where do you think the cobs from all that corn in the supermarket went? Or the peels from the potatoes that make up the bags of chips in your supermarket? Did they go the landfill?

I just did not agree with I luv herfrds statement, "Did you know that if every person in the USA turned to a vegan diet there would not be enouh food to feed everybody?". There would be enough food, but I doubt everyone would turn to vegan diet at the same time or that everyone (or even a majority of the people) would even want to turn to a vegan diet...

Where would we grow the extra grains if people stop eating meat? Virtually every acre of land suitable for farming is in production in this country. Getting sufficient protein without eating meat is possible but it takes dedication and a large stomach. According to the FDA Food Labeling Guide, the Daily Value for protein based on a 2,000-calorie diet is 50 grams. The USDA's nutrient database shows that eating just six ounces of beef provides the 50-gram daily requirement for protein, making it an excellent source of protein. According to the USDA data, to get that amount of protein from non-meat sources would require consuming: 1.38 pounds of white bread; 1.14 pounds of wheat bread; 1.6 pounds of tofu; 1.25 pounds of black beans; or 3.36 pounds of corn. That would require a lot of new farmland.

I do think there already is enough food to feed the hungry... The real problem is getting the food to them.

You're finally right about something. Congratulations. :roll:

BTW: Per acre corn yield in the state known for its potatoes, Idaho, was 160 bushels per acre in 2002, or 8,960 lbs. of corn, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture's (USDA) Agricultural Statistics 2003. Over all phases – cow/calf to feedlot – with an average of 2.6 pounds grain per pound of beef, this grain could be converted to 3,446 lbs. of nutrient rich beef. On an ounce-for-ounce basis, beef delivers a much more potent nutrient bundle than potatoes.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

I wonder why the two vegitarian parents who were recently convicted of manslaughter for the malnutrition death of their infant child didnt use that list as a defense.

If they were the same couple I read about recently, they were vegans not vegetarians.

(no, i haven't read the links yet that you posted).

Katherine

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

I'm actually more of a meatatarian really. I like my steak just gently flame kissed. More just warm than cooked, really. Probably why when I see a nicely finished steer it sets my mouth to watering. Every vegetarian I've ever met has always been real pale and pasty looking, not to mention they seem to produce a fair bit of methane as all those vegetables compost through their system. They kind of remind me of cows that way. When I think about it, some of those vegetarians look kinda tasty :lol2:

 

[Dave]

Frankie brings up an interesting point. As much as possible cattle are fed on bi-product feeds. Here in the Pacific Northwest almost all of the major cattle feeding operations are located near potato processing plants, apple juice facilities, and vegetable canneries. This cheap waste product is converted into beef rather than being hauled to the landfill. I am sure that this occurs all over the country. And yes, these cattle are certainly fed grain but the base for or a large portion of their diet is this waste vegetable matter. The rumen is a wonderful digestive machine which turns unusable waste in to beef.

 

[SilverCharm]

3MR,

Always consider the source of your articles......... Lindsay H. Allen, Ph.D.

United States Department of Agriculture

Western Human Nutrition Research Center, Davis, CA
................ The U.S. Department of Agriculture **
Food Safety and Inspection Service
Oversees
Domestic and imported meat and poultry and related products, such as meat- or poultry-containing stews, pizzas and frozen foods

Processed egg products (generally liquid, frozen and dried pasteurized egg products)
Food Safety Role
Enforces food safety laws governing domestic and imported meat and poultry products .......... That should answer why the article is so uniformed and more so ......So biased ........

I want to say using undernourished third world children in a study to discount vegans (funded by a beef distributor) seems a little unethical in and of itself, too.

You also cannot prove veganism is unhealthy just because there are a few bad apples who starve their children... Meat-eaters have their fair share as well.


Frankie,

I did not realize that Dave Scott was no longer a vegetarian, thank you for letting me know. Anyway, he is quoted as saying, "The media still publishes my image as a vegetarian………… and without asking, the truth is never told. I will always be a strong and steadfast proponent of a vegetarian diet."

I do believe the rest of the people I listed are vegetarian. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

And no, it takes no more food to get all of your nutrients in a vegetarian diet. It really is quite simple. I counted up my protein one day and I easily ate more than 70 grams (way over the recommended daily value of 50 grams).

Dave,

No one would eat 1.6 pounds of white bread for 50 grams of protein... No one needs to eat his or her daily value in one sitting... Just because steak is a good source of protein, that does not mean it is the ONLY good source of protein.

Also, about how much crops are produced per acre, I could be wrong. I have read a few websites about it, and most say different things, so it is hard to know what is right.


Most of you probably eat some vegetarian foods... Burritos and speghetti (without meatballs, of course) are examples.

AngusLimoX,

I am more of a conservative, not a liberal. I do not support PETA, and I never will. Like I said before, I am not a vegan for the animals, but for my health.

 

[SilverCharm]

AngusLimox,

Hardly anyone knows I am a vegan, and if you ever met me, you would not have a clue.

I would never tell you what to eat. If you want a big steak, go right ahead, I'm not stopping you!

 

[Frankie]

Frankie,

I did not realize that Dave Scott was no longer a vegetarian, thank you for letting me know. Anyway, he is quoted as saying, "The media still publishes my image as a vegetarian………… and without asking, the truth is never told. I will always be a strong and steadfast proponent of a vegetarian diet."

I do believe the rest of the people I listed are vegetarian. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

You do believe. Obviously you don't require much to make you believe. I expect more than that. Scott apparently never claimed to be a vegan, only a vegetarian. Where's your reference for this quote? No, I'm not going to do any research, one way or another. The fact that you've listed them and the only one I bothered to look up wasn't vegan tells us that you're mostly blowing hot air. I've seen vegans claim Abraham Lincoln, Paul Newman, you name a famous person, and vegans have probably claimed they were vegan. The truth is not important in the world of veganism.

And no, it takes no more food to get all of your nutrients in a vegetarian diet. It really is quite simple. I counted up my protein one day and I easily ate more than 70 grams (way over the recommended daily value of 50 grams).

Tell us what you ate that one day. No one said you can't live on a vegan diet, but it's tough. And you haven't addressed the fact that more land would have to be put into production to meet the need. Nor have you addressed the fact that more animals will be killed when fields are plowed.

Dave,

No one would eat 1.6 pounds of white bread for 50 grams of protein... No one needs to eat his or her daily value in one sitting... Just because steak is a good source of protein, that does not mean it is the ONLY good source of protein.

See above. What did you eat to get your 50 grams of protein. Will you eat that every day?

Also, about how much crops are produced per acre, I could be wrong. I have read a few websites about it, and most say different things, so it is hard to know what is right.

But let's not let your lack of knowledge stop you from preaching to us about eating meat. :roll:

Most of you probably eat some vegetarian foods... Burritos and speghetti (without meatballs, of course) are examples.

Most of us probably eat a balanced diet, some meat some veggies. Any extreme diet is not good for your health. And a vegan diet is an extreme diet

BTW, I see you chiding 3MR for his reference, yet you offer none of your own. Could that be because your references are all vegan sites?

 

[SilverCharm]

I don't preach. but here you go...

"Consider this: 100 calories of steak has 5.4 grams of protein. 100 calories of broccoli has 11.2, almost twice as much.
I'll go to Answers on Yahoo or any number of forums where people are asking questions about vegetarians and vegans. Then someone will pop in who obviously hasn't read up on nutritional content or anything about the veg*n lifestyle and say things like "The only place you can get protein is meat." Or the people asking questions will pretty much always bring up the whole protein issue. And I can't say this enough:

It is a MYTH.

Amino acids, aka protein, are deemed the "building blocks of life." Everything has some protein in it. The United State's obsession of protein is based on an outdated experiment done on rats in the early 1900s. If you look at nutrient dense foods - which foods are going to give you the most nutrients per calorie (this is how people lose weight and stay thin, too) -meaning more nutrient bang for the caloric buck - fruits and veggies outdo anything. Consider this: 100 calories of cow has around 5 grams of protein while 100 calories of broccoli has around 11. Vegans - the most strict form of vegetarian - actually get twice the amount of protein the body truly needs. The makeup of plants - fat content and everything - is perfectly in sync with what our bodies need. Vegetables are around 23% protein on average, beans 28%, grains 13%, and even fruit has 5.5%. For comparison, human breast milk is only 5% (designed for the time in our lives when our protein needs are as high as they'll ever be). The US Recommended Daily Allowance is 8%, and the World Health Organization recommends 4.5%.

It's odd that people think we need to eat animals for protein, but the animals that we eat consume nothing but plants! Where do pigs, cows, and sheep get their protein? From plants. Does anybody ever worry that cows or sheep aren't getting enough protein? The cows and sheep certainly don't.

Consider something else. Many people eat animals because they think that there are some magical nutrients in meat. But realize that meat is simply flesh. And humans are simply flesh. Look at your own arm -- you're nothing but walking meat. Anything that you might expect to get from eating flesh you already have, because you're made of flesh.

The average American diet contains meat and dairy products. As a result, it is often too high in protein. This can lead to a number of serious health problems:

Kidney Disease: When people eat too much protein, they take in more nitrogen than they need. This places a strain on the kidneys, which must expel the extra nitrogen through urine. People with kidney disease are encouraged to eat low-protein diets. Such a diet reduces the excess levels of nitrogen and can also help prevent kidney disease.

Cancer: Although fat is the dietary substance most often singled out for increasing cancer risk, protein also plays a role. Populations who eat meat regularly are at increased risk for colon cancer, and researchers believe that the fat, protein, natural carcinogens, and absence of fiber in meat all play roles. The 1997 report of the World Cancer Research Fund and American Institute for Cancer Research, Food, Nutrition, and the Prevention of Cancer, noted that meaty, high-protein diets were linked with some types of cancer.

Osteoporosis and Kidney Stones: Diets that are rich in animal protein cause people to excrete more calcium than normal through their kidneys and increase the risk of osteoporosis. Countries with lower-protein diets have lower rates of osteoporosis and hip fractures. Increased calcium excretion increases risk for kidney stones. Researchers in England found that when people added about 5 ounces of fish (about 34 grams of protein) to a normal diet, the risk of forming urinary tract stones increased by as much as 250 percent.

For a long time it was thought that athletes needed much more protein than other people. The truth is that athletes, even those who strength-train, need only slightly more protein, which is easily obtained in the larger servings athletes require for their higher caloric intake. Vegetarian diets are great for athletes. To consume a diet that contains enough, but not too much, protein, simply replace animal products with grains, vegetables, legumes (peas, beans, and lentils), and fruits. As long as one is eating a variety of plant foods in sufficient quantity to maintain one's weight, the body gets plenty of protein.

Since Nature designed her plant foods complete, with abundant amounts of fat, protein, carbohydrates, vitamins and minerals, "Where you get a specific nutrient?" is almost never a relevant question, as long as there is enough to eat. So, why have scientists, dietitians, medical doctors, diet-book authors, and the lay public become fixated on a non-existent problem? Protein is synonymous with eating meat, poultry, fish, dairy, and eggs—the foods traditionally consumed by the wealthier people in a society—thus, protein-eating means higher social status. High-protein foods are also high-profit foods. Therefore, propagating the protein myth is motivated by egos and money—and the usual consequences of pain and suffering follow closely behind these two human frailties."

http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdougal ... erload.htm
http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdougal ... erload.htm
http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/images.html
http://www.veganathlete.com/

Yes, that ONE DAY is pretty typical of what I normally eat. Please, do some research before giving an ignorant post.

I never said Abraham Lincoln was a vegan. Please don't lump me or the majority of vegans in with the few vegans you know.

Yes, some animals are killed with plowing, but far less than a slaughterhouse! As I said before, I am NOT a vegan for the animals!

Hmm, well actually I did offer references...[/b]

 

[SilverCharm]

Common sources of specific amino acids are:
Histidine: Apple, pomogranates, alfalfa, beets, carrots, celery, cucumber, dandelion, endive, garlic, radish, spinach, turnip greens.
Arginine: Alfalfa, beets, carrots, celery, cucumbers, green vegetables, leeks, lettuce, potatoes, radishes, parsnips, nutritional yeast.
Valine: Apples, almonds, pomegranates, beets, carrots, celery, dandelion greens, lettuce, okra, parsley, parsnips, squash, tomatoes, turnips, nutritional yeast.
Tryptophan: Alfalfa, brussel sprouts, carrots, celery, chives, dandelion greens, endive, fennel, snap beans, spinach, turnips, nutritional yeast.
Threnoine: Papayas, alfalfa sprouts, carrots, green leafy vegetables such as celery, collards, kale, and lettuce (especially iceberg), lima beans, laver (Nori -- a sea vegetable).
Phenylalanine: Apples, pineapples, beets, carrots, parsley, spinach, tomatoes, nutritional yeast.
Methionine: Apples, pineapples, Brazil nuts, filberts, brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, chives, dock (sorrel), garlic, horseradish, kale, watercress.
Lysine: Apples, apricots, grapes, papayas, pears, alfalfa, beets, carrots, celery, cucumber, dandelion greens, parsley, spinach, turnip greens.
Leucine: Avocados, papayas, olives, coconut, sunflower seeds.
Isoleucine: Avocados, papayas, olives, coconut, sunflower seeds.

And some in general examples of plant foods containing high sources of protein:
PROTEIN IN LEGUMES: Garbanzo beans, Kidney beans, Lentils, Lima beans, Navy beans, Soybeans, Split peas
PROTEIN IN GRAINS: Barley, Brown rice, Buckwheat, Millet, Oatmeal, Rye, Wheat germ, Wheat, hard red, Wild rice
VEGETABLE PROTEIN: Artichokes, Beets, Broccoli, Brussels sprouts, Cabbage, Cauliflower, Cucumbers, Eggplant, Green peas, Green pepper, Kale, Lettuce, Mushrooms, Mustard green, Onions, Potatoes, Spinach, Tomatoes, Turnip greens, Watercress, Yams, Zucchini
PROTEIN IN FRUITS: Apple, Banana, Cantaloupe, Grape, Grapefruit, Honeydew melon, Orange, Papaya, Peach, Pear, Pineapple, Strawberry, Tangerine, Watermelon
PROTEIN IN NUTS AND SEEDS: Almonds, Cashews, Filberts, Hemp Seeds, Peanuts, Pumpkin seeds, Sesame seeds, Sunflower seeds, Walnuts (black)

 

[SilverCharm]

Frankie, read my post! I never said Scott was a vegan, I said he was a vegetarian!!

 

[hillsdown]

If everyone tomorrow became a vegetarian or a vegan what would you do with all the animals?How would you feed the world as it would be bancrupt.Be a vegan a vegetarian;be catholic ;Jewish,or any religion you choose; just don't preach and try to convert.This topic is way worse than posting anything religious or political on these boards.Most of us feed and clothe our families from the animals we raise, care for and sell.My cows and calves get treated alot better than some children out there.Maybe these PETA like groups should look to saving the children first then they can move on to the cows and chickens.