why are herefords so thin compared to "old time" cattle

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dun

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sim.-ang.king":2z0sauck said:
I always wondered how Herefords could of free roamed the plains for decades with other breeds, and supposedly come out "pure" by some's definitions.

I better go punish myself for ever speaking evil against the "only real breed of cattle".
I thought Aurochs were the only real beef breed.
 

sim.-ang.king

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dun":3j7zojbd said:
sim.-ang.king":3j7zojbd said:
I always wondered how Herefords could of free roamed the plains for decades with other breeds, and supposedly come out "pure" by some's definitions.

I better go punish myself for ever speaking evil against the "only real breed of cattle".
I thought Aurochs were the only real beef breed.
Nope, the Hereford came before Auroch, and is said to have formed from pure purbuliemum.
A just recently discovered element.
 

True Grit Farms

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Zoetis is working on DNA testing for the Hereford breed. Something along the lines of the 50k deal for Angus. It should be interesting. I assume you could check Hereford cattle now for any Angus influence in them.
 

elkwc

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There is an informative post over at HT about this subject. It sheds a lot of light on the OP's post and gives some detail about why there is a wide difference in the DNA of the old Hereford and that found today in the UK. I would imagine if the test is ever done over here we will see the same type of results.
True Grit is the test they are working on to provide proof of parentage or is it to provide prove of breed and any outside influences. I had a person involved with some of the testing tell me that most of the testing basically provides proof of parentage but not of breed purity. That was almost a year ago.
 

etmountianman71

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I see a Hereford I like everyday when i go to the field with my cattle.

Cattle (almost all breeds) have changed over the years as breeders have gone with the market.
At one time were Angus and Herefords a lot shorter than today top animals?
The breeding and genetics has improved some animals to look excellent for either "show" or "work", doing the research and there are some out there that will satisfy both needs, but also remember to look for what works in your environment and climate.
 

Rafter S

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etmountianman71":3uulfdju said:
I see a Hereford I like everyday when i go to the field with my cattle.

Cattle (almost all breeds) have changed over the years as breeders have gone with the market.
At one time were Angus and Herefords a lot shorter than today top animals?
The breeding and genetics has improved some animals to look excellent for either "show" or "work", doing the research and there are some out there that will satisfy both needs, but also remember to look for what works in your environment and climate.

An excellent point. I bought some old cattle magazines from the late 1930's and early 1940's a few years ago. I remember reading an advertisement in one of them from a Shorthorn breeder stating that his cattle would "shorten the legs of Aberdeen-Angus".
 

houstoncutter

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Herefords, just like Angus chased the frame size game in the show ring. That damn ring has screwed up a lot of breeds. You don't jump 4 frame sizes in one year unless you are throwing in semen from a taller breed. Don't think that could be considered a opinion, just common sense. Don't have a dog in this fight Im out of the cattle biz for good, but I have been seeing some nice moderate framed Herefords in my travels. Its hard to beat a meaty Herford covering Brahman, and then covering that cross with a continental bull.
 

elkwc

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Carlos F.":2x9lotk8 said:

Some not so thin Herefords around here. She may not qualify for the Traditional Club, she is polled. Not mine, I own a son.
Nice cow.
 

Ky hills

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Houston Cutter, that is my take on the fast gain of frame scores and the show ring trends as well too.
Tennessee Tuxedo, and Carlos, those are some good looking Herefords, goes to show that Herefords can work in lots of different regions.
 

dun

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The change in cattle comes from pretty much two causes. The show ring and what the packers want.
 

dun

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WichitaLineMan":2mufnqma said:
dun":2mufnqma said:
The change in cattle comes from.... what the packers want.

Tail wagging the dog?
Could be put that way. I prefer to think it's adjusting to providing what the consumer wants.
 

smnherf

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elkwc":nu6zkzkr said:
There is an informative post over at HT about this subject. It sheds a lot of light on the OP's post and gives some detail about why there is a wide difference in the DNA of the old Hereford and that found today in the UK. I would imagine if the test is ever done over here we will see the same type of results.
True Grit is the test they are working on to provide proof of parentage or is it to provide prove of breed and any outside influences. I had a person involved with some of the testing tell me that most of the testing basically provides proof of parentage but not of breed purity. That was almost a year ago.

A simple google search soon after I read his posts showed me all I need to know. This is simply a marketing ploy with the differentiation point of being more pure than the next guy but the definition of purity is in the eye of the beholder. They have gone back and used old Hereford lines from previous decades and they claim they are pure, but we have no evidence to prove that. For instance, are the Hereford gene pools from the 1800's more pure than the 1920's or the 1940's or the 1960's or the 1980s? Cotmore may have resurrected old lines from the 1940's 1950's or 60's but I will guarantee you that in in the early 1900's bulls did jump fences, and bred cows that they weren't supposed. There was no DNA or blood typing back then.

Traditional Herefords and line breeding seem to be the buzz words by many today, but the bottom line is if they cant perform in the feedlot, be acceptable on the rail, convert feed efficiency, reproduce efficiently, and have good eyes, feet, fleshing ability and hardiness, then all you have is a line bred traditional Hereford that will be a novelty in a future petting zoo. I have used some old lines of Hereford over the years, but there are also many lines that needed to be left for extinction for the breeds sake.

In my book, Cotmore violated one of the biggest rules of salesmanship and that was to not bad mouth your competition. On top of that he gave no evidence that he has better Herefords and we would be better off using his product than what we have. The purity banner has no more validity than a show ribbon winner or a set of blue box epd numbers as a marketing ploy. Snake oil is still snake oil. None of those will improve the Herefords acceptability and improve our market share into the commercial cattle sector. That is all that matters.
 

WichitaLineMan

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dun":6djmvykw said:
WichitaLineMan":6djmvykw said:
dun":6djmvykw said:
The change in cattle comes from.... what the packers want.

Tail wagging the dog?
Could be put that way. I prefer to think it's adjusting to providing what the consumer wants.

That would be fine if it were 'the CONSUMER'....but actually it is just a MIDDLEMAN with a BIG STICK....the CONSUMER is much like us adjusting (buying) what the MIDDLEMAN can make the most money on........

That being said, "it is what it is" and my little opinion isn't changing it......
 

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