why are herefords so thin compared to "old time" cattle

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RD-Sam

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HerefordSire":gbn3hymm said:
cypressfarms":gbn3hymm said:
As many know, I've been looking at bulls for a while. I've seen pics that Knersie and Keren post (although Keren's were older pics), and they almost all have stock that is much broader/thicker. Some of the cows and bulls Keren posted were as thick as a truck. By thick I mean front and rear legs spread out a fair amount becuase the cow/bull is wide. Some call it capacity, I call it thick. So the question is why have herefords here in the U.S changed so much. Last night I looked at many semen bulls from the a.i. companies and none of these really stood out as being truly thick. There were a couple, but most have that thinner frame. I would love to be able to buy a bull like Keren posted, but I guess they don't make 'em like they used to? So why the change in thickness?

Consistant weaning weight of the cross-bred offspring plus high carcass quality is more valuable than thickness if they are at times different. If they are different, why focus on thickness? So they don't roll over walking up a creek bank at an angle? Or possibly so I can post pictures of how good my cattle look? Or so I can place them in my front pasture by the Interstate? WW and carcass quality.

Let's see how much chatter I can generate off of that post.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I'm still waiting for you to post some pics of your cattle. :nod:
 

Rustler9

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Maybe you explained it better then, she looks good but she wouldn't fit into my environment. While I like her looks, she probably wouldn't look like that very long here, lots of hill country to cover, some of it rough. Scaled down maybe. Grew up with Herefords and had some good doing cattle, but nothing like her.
 

KNERSIE

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RD-Sam":2fga3anf said:

Again a bull I looked into, or rather tried to look into. Don't know why he wasn't used much wider, probably ahead of his time, or not new enough at the time. Innisfailfarm never returned any of my e-mails and I've sent several. Maybe you have better luck.
 

alacattleman

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JHH":3hwrn8el said:
I guess I am going to sound like Greenwillow now. I like the Day bull. Some one said he had eye problems but he is either 9 or 10 years old and still being used. I do think He is as thick and wide as we need and in a moderate package. He should be used as a tool not a solution. He should help out herds alot. Here is his pic again.

day943bull-1.jpg


Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
he'd be the solution in alot of herds
 

Cotmore

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They are not as thick because as one of the worlds leading geneticists has put it, the modern Hereford is only a DISTANT RELATIVE of the Hereford. They have been crossed with Simentalscand lost a lot of what was a Hereford.
 

SPH

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Cotmore":234tj2n6 said:
They are not as thick because as one of the worlds leading geneticists has put it, the modern Hereford is only a DISTANT RELATIVE of the Hereford. They have been crossed with Simentalscand lost a lot of what was a Hereford.

Did you sign up for an account just to bring up threads from 10 years ago just to bash the Hereford breed? It's very conveinent of you to sign up for an account today and the first thing you do is dig up 6 topics that haven't been active anywhere from 2-10 years and throw out some random accusations and theories on Herefords.
 

elkwc

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Ky hills":1sbxi3jh said:
I believe that most breeds have changed dramatically from "old time" cattle.

And sadly not all of it for the improvement of the breed. What the poster said has at least some truth and merit. Anyone who has studied and been around Herefords for years can see and tell many of the impurities in the breed. And sadly there are only a few sources of the more pure Herefords left.
 

smnherf

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elkwc":43tab4rt said:
Ky hills":43tab4rt said:
I believe that most breeds have changed dramatically from "old time" cattle.

And sadly not all of it for the improvement of the breed. ]What the poster said has at least some truth and merit. Anyone who has studied and been around Herefords for years can see and tell many of the impurities in the breed. And sadly there are only a few sources of the more pure Herefords left.


I have to strongly disagree, as there is no source quoted only an opinion. People need to learn that anyone can post their opinion anywhere on the internet at any time and that doesn't make it true. I realize the new age of journalism doesn't require named sources, but sources are more important that the quote. Sure there have been some cases of Simmental finding their way into the gene pool, but its far from widespread. In my earlier testing of Hererford DNA, one of the company reps doing the testing upon seeing the results of the dna said, "its a typical Hereford DNA profile, very tight grouping with few outliers." If there was so much Simmental blood cursing through the veins of the Hereford population in North America, there would be LOTS of outliers.
 

dun

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smnherf":1b1wl01a said:
elkwc":1b1wl01a said:
Ky hills":1b1wl01a said:
I believe that most breeds have changed dramatically from "old time" cattle.

And sadly not all of it for the improvement of the breed. ]What the poster said has at least some truth and merit. Anyone who has studied and been around Herefords for years can see and tell many of the impurities in the breed. And sadly there are only a few sources of the more pure Herefords left.


I have to strongly disagree, as there is no source quoted only an opinion. People need to learn that anyone can post their opinion anywhere on the internet at any time and that doesn't make it true. I realize the new age of journalism doesn't require named sources, but sources are more important that the quote. Sure there have been some cases of Simmental finding their way into the gene pool, but its far from widespread. In my earlier testing of Hererford DNA, one of the company reps doing the testing upon seeing the results of the dna said, "its a typical Hereford DNA profile, very tight grouping with few outliers." If there was so much Simmental blood cursing through the veins of the Hereford population in North America, there would be LOTS of outliers.
Where's that dam thumbs up button when you need it?
 

elkwc

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smnherf":14ohnaad said:
elkwc":14ohnaad said:
Ky hills":14ohnaad said:
I believe that most breeds have changed dramatically from "old time" cattle.

And sadly not all of it for the improvement of the breed. ]What the poster said has at least some truth and merit. Anyone who has studied and been around Herefords for years can see and tell many of the impurities in the breed. And sadly there are only a few sources of the more pure Herefords left.


I have to strongly disagree, as there is no source quoted only an opinion. People need to learn that anyone can post their opinion anywhere on the internet at any time and that doesn't make it true. I realize the new age of journalism doesn't require named sources, but sources are more important that the quote. Sure there have been some cases of Simmental finding their way into the gene pool, but its far from widespread. In my earlier testing of Hererford DNA, one of the company reps doing the testing upon seeing the results of the dna said, "its a typical Hereford DNA profile, very tight grouping with few outliers." If there was so much Simmental blood cursing through the veins of the Hereford population in North America, there would be LOTS of outliers.

And this is just another opinion and just because it is yours doesn't make it right. I have talked to many sources who have told me about known crosses that were never addressed. Most of the accepted/admitted crosses now were known long before they were addressed and then only because they couldn't be hid any longer. I'm not saying the Hereford breed is any different than most other breeds. But I base my opinion not only on what I'm told by some who were in a postition to know but also on my observations of Hereford cattle for almost 60 years. Like another person stated on another site there are many signs a person can look for that indicate if a Hereford is true to what they were 60 years ago or longer. Again just my opinion and I'm as entitled to it as you are yours.
 

tater74

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Re: horned herefords
Unread postby Cotmore » Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:29 am

For those of you whose interested in the original pure (not crossbred) Hereford genetics there is a growing international group that includes herds in UK, Australia, U.S and Argentina. Further there is a lot of work going on and we will soon have a test to prove which are / are not pure Herefords and which are / are not cross bred Herefords. The tests have shown that the vast majority of North American Herefords fall into this later group and have been heavily ingressed by Simental. One of the worlds leading farm animal geneticists has described the North American Hereford as only a DISTANT RELATIVE of the true Hereford. Feel free to contact me if you are interested in joining this group.

Cotmore has an agenda as evidenced by his post in another thread.
 

Muddy

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Elkwc, you may be right about some breeds in the woodpile. However the Herefords remain to be most purest breed in United States than any breeds.
 

elkwc

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Muddy":2ulfdq1u said:
Elkwc, you may be right about some breeds in the woodpile. However the Herefords remain to be most purest breed in United States than any breeds.
Again that is your opinion. And not sure how you are going to prove it.There are those who dispute that claim. And after the AHA decided to turn a blind eye to many of the known crosses the only avenue left for a commercial breeder is to decide if they want to accept the impurity or go a different route. My choice has been to avoid the known crosses whether they have been accepted or not. I avoid certain bloodlines like Titan even though it limits severely the choices I have especially on the polled side. What puzzles me is that many of those that feel that the known crosses are ok and that claim that Herefords are the purest of all breeds then have a problem with Black Herefords, ect. In many cases they could be as pure as an animal with Titan flowing in it's veins. I'm a realist. I truly love Herefords but beleive in being honest and accepting proven/known facts. And where I know that there is an impurity I will avoid it. I believe in honesty and integrity. Again we each are entitled to our opinions but that doesn't make any of us right or wrong. We have to do what is best for our operation so we can pay our bills and enjoy the fruit of our labor our cattle.
 

sim.-ang.king

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I always wondered how Herefords could of free roamed the plains for decades with other breeds, and supposedly come out "pure" by some's definitions.

I better go punish myself for ever speaking evil against the "only real breed of cattle".
 
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