RustyTub
Well-known member
When buying registered cattle from an individual, do you pay in full when papers are not delivered with cattle or pay portion with balance paid upon papers delivery?
When buying registered cattle
- Thread starter RustyTub
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If I were having them delivered, I would tell the seller to send the papers with the cattle. No reason for them not to do that.
Travlr
Well-known member
If you are paying a premium for registered cattle, then you shouldn't be paying anything at all until you have both cattle and papers in hand.
redcowsrule33
Well-known member
If you can get them to agree to the latter it would be best especially with private treaty. I got into a year long fight with a breeder trying to get papers on a bull. Bought two, one the papers were transferred and the other did not. After finally threatening to turn them into the association I finally got them. Turns out the dam was purchased in a group of heifers from another breeder and they got them without papers. So he was not registered like they said. They had to go back and ask for the papers on the by then mature cow then register the bull. By then he had calves on the ground from my registered cows.
redcowsrule33
Well-known member
Our family had done business with them for years so I never suspected there would be a problem.
kenny thomas
Well-known member
I think every bull i have bought the seller transfered the papers into my name and i recieved them a week or two later. I doubt the seller would chance transferring it into the buyers name before he got paid.
Same here.
That's one of the things a person should probably make sure is written on the invoice... "Papers will be mailed with in 30 days the sale date".
Some people get them to me with in a couple weeks and some drag their feet and I have to remind once or twice.
I got my papers on those 7 Brangus bulls I bought at the sale in February, that day when I paid for them. Everything thing was needed from the seller already filled out, just had to add the new buyers' name and send them in. Same with those 7 Red Charolais heifers I bought last month. I have old hundreds of registered horses over the years, and always fill out the seller's part on the papers or on the transfer slips (depending on the breed) and leave the buyer info blank for the eventual owner to fill in and send in to get the horse registered in his/her name. I sell a lot of auto mobiles and motorcycles, and I fill out the back of the title as seller, don't date it, and give it to the buyer to register . If I was going to by a registered horse, and the seller told me that they would send in the transfer, and get the papers mailed to me later, I would noy buy it. Nor would I buy a truck if the seller told me that they would fill out and send in the MV-1, and have the title mailed to me. Nor would I pay for a registered cow or bull, and the owner tell me they would mail the papers to me later.
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wbvs58
Well-known member
When I sell registered cows no physical papers change hands, if the buyer is a member of Angus Australia and has a herd ID and will use them for breeding registered progeny I will usually charge a $500 premium over commercial value and transfer the ownership on line. There is a transfer fee and either the buyer or seller can be responsible for that, we have to decide that at the time. If people just pay the commercial price they can look them up on line quite easily but to get them in their name they have to pay a premium.
Bulls are different, they can be transferred to a non member, there is no transfer fee. The price of the bull factors in the premium.
Ken
Bulls are different, they can be transferred to a non member, there is no transfer fee. The price of the bull factors in the premium.
Ken
RustyTub
Well-known member
Good info. Thanks
It's been 6 months or so. I've hit them up on quite a few occasions. Getting tired the gaslighting. Really don't want to take the association approach. Part of me would rather take the county sheriff approach but that's worthy of another thread.
The online transfers have worked well when buying at online auctions. Guess I need to put a protocol in place for private sales.
It's been 6 months or so. I've hit them up on quite a few occasions. Getting tired the gaslighting. Really don't want to take the association approach. Part of me would rather take the county sheriff approach but that's worthy of another thread.
The online transfers have worked well when buying at online auctions. Guess I need to put a protocol in place for private sales.
kenny thomas
Well-known member
Here its actually illegal to have a signed open title on a vehicle. I may be wrong but I think @simme transferred the papers on my bull to me at no cost to him but it would have cost me if i had sent the papers in myself. Someone correct me if im wrong. Every bull i have bought for the last 25 years the breeder registered the papers in my name.
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StrojanHerefords
Well-known member
A few years ago, we discovered that the Hereford association was selling the buyers list of who bought registered cattle. It's no fun spending decades getting a customer to buy Hereford bulls and then having the new fieldman steal your customers.
It probably is here in GA too, but it will work if you don't date it and don't date the bill of sale til you go to transfer it. In Ga, you have 30 days from the purchase date to transfer the title.
Until about 12 years ago, you paid sales tax when you bought a new or used vehicle from a dealer, then ad valorem tax every year there after on it, Sales between individuals you didn't have to pay sales tax, but paid ad valorem every year. They changed it to where you have to pay sales tax, even when bought form an individual, but every other year you own it you just pay $20 a year for your tag. And it doesn't matter what you paid for it, or what the bill of sale says, they have their own "book" they look up the values in, and charge you 7% of that figure for sales tax. I wish I could sell a vehicle for what they say the value is! Anyway, that's why people leave titles open a lot, especially if you buy and sell a lot.
simme
Old Dumb Guy
With the simmental association, the first transfer of an animal after registration is "free" - no additional cost beyond the cost of the registration. Registration, data submission, and transfer can all be done online. Your bull was transferred to you minutes after he left here. If a physical registration "paper" is requested, that is mailed out from the association in a few days at no additional cost to anyone. Default now is that the "papers" are stored in the association's "digital vault" and can be viewed online and a certified copy can be downloaded by the owner as needed. Of course, a mailed paper copy can be requested at time of registration or transfer.
An adult member of the simmental association pays a required $110 service fee yearly regardless of number of cattle owned. That fee allows animals to be registered and transferred and access to association services - but additional fees may be required. There are multiple options for registration. I pay $15 per year for each breeding age female in the herd. Using that option, all registrations for calves are "free" - included with the $15 paid per breeding age cow. And that includes generation and updates of epd's, data (bw, ww, yw, etc) recording, and such at no additional cost.
sunnyblueskies
Well-known member
Just to chime in...... I don't really buy 'registered' cattle for the papers, because we just raise commercial calves, so it doesn't really matter to me about having the papers in hand.
If we buy a registered bull, the breeder passes on our name and address to the association AFTER the purchase is done and the animal delivered. The association then sends us the papers for the bull in our name.
Can't really expect the breeder to have the 'in our name' registered papers at the time of animal delivery.
Test results or anything Vet related is a different matter.
If we buy a registered bull, the breeder passes on our name and address to the association AFTER the purchase is done and the animal delivered. The association then sends us the papers for the bull in our name.
Can't really expect the breeder to have the 'in our name' registered papers at the time of animal delivery.
Test results or anything Vet related is a different matter.
Ky hills
Well-known member
I recently bought a Hereford bull and got the registration paper within a couple of weeks or so of getting the bull. The transfer was written.and signed by the breeder after payment for the bull which is customary.
Years ago when I was in the registered Charolais business, I can't remember what the transfer fee was but a lot of breeders figured out a way to make extra money from it they would charge an additional $50 -$100 dollars to transfer the registration paper to the buyer. The seller could transfer it much cheaper nearly half price of what a nonmember buyer could. I'm sure they transferred the registrations as a breeder and pocketed the rest of the money. I never played that game, I always asked if the buyers wanted papers, if so I transferred them with no cost to the buyer.
Most breeders that I have dealt with across several breeds have been prompt in getting the paperwork transferred.
Once, we had to contact a seller a couple times about papers that we had bought a heifer through one of their production sales.
Years ago when I was in the registered Charolais business, I can't remember what the transfer fee was but a lot of breeders figured out a way to make extra money from it they would charge an additional $50 -$100 dollars to transfer the registration paper to the buyer. The seller could transfer it much cheaper nearly half price of what a nonmember buyer could. I'm sure they transferred the registrations as a breeder and pocketed the rest of the money. I never played that game, I always asked if the buyers wanted papers, if so I transferred them with no cost to the buyer.
Most breeders that I have dealt with across several breeds have been prompt in getting the paperwork transferred.
Once, we had to contact a seller a couple times about papers that we had bought a heifer through one of their production sales.
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GoWyo
Well-known member
I always ask if buyers want papers transferred. 90% don't want more paper. The ones that do it is pretty simple to do on our account with the AAA website and they will mail directly to buyer for a small extra fee.
I have experience with this issue. We sell registered cattle and do not transfer ownership until the animal is paid in full. We have to protect ourselves as well. The best advice I have is not to do business with sketchy people. Get a bill of sale that documents payment.
What breed do you raise, @yippee? and where are you located?
How about a reg Char cow that is bred? How does one get the calf registered when it arrives? Those 7 reg red char heifers that were bred, the seller was gonna transfer their papers, but I don't recall what he said about how to register those calves when they are born. Originally the man that bought 4 of them was gonna use them in his Gert x Herf, in lieu of Herefords. And the 3 Clay bought he was intending on AI-ing them to sexed for male, black Herf semen. Now they have both decided to use sexed for female red Char semen. Probably what they should do is join the association themselves, huh? Since they are gonna produce reg red Char heifers each year?
