Vets

[msscamp]

depends on the vet, some will charge more than the cow or calf is worth, plus they often lose the cow even if you call them asap. you have to ask them how much before they do some things & some will just experiment with your money. it is hard to find a good vet anymore

Vets are just like any other profession - some are good, others are not. When you made the decision to acquire cattle you knew that, sooner or later, there would come a time when you would need a good vet. Because of that you should have planned ahead, done your homework, asked around, found a good vet, and started establishing your relationship with him/her BEFORE you needed them.

 

[msscamp]

I read on these forums where people refer to their vets rather often, and encourage others to do the same, I'm just wondering, is having a local vet over to check out your herd that common, where I live I cant think of a single time(in years) when I heard someone say they had a vet over, wouldnt that get expensive if you called a vet everytime a cow came up lame or sick, usually we just go to the co-op or some other feed store, mention whats wrong and they will recommend some type of treatment, we do it and go on about our day, its just rather interesting to me to read yall saying "get the vet".

We rarely had a vet out other than to Bang's vaccinate, or bleed for health papers when transporting cattle across state lines after sale. That does not mean, however, that we did not have an established relationship with our vet for those occasions when a heifer had calving problems at 2 AM, or something funky happened and we needed the services of our vet. It's called plan ahead, and don't burn your bridges because sooner or later you WILL need the services of a vet! ;-) As far as recommending that people with cattle issues talk to their vet, it is impossible to diagnose most problems via the internet. To tell someone definitely that "XYZ" is what is wrong with their cow would be irresponsible at best, and flat out wrong at worst. Assuming the cattle owner has done his/her homework, their vet can tell them what the problem is and how to correct it.

 

[djinwa]

depends on the vet, some will charge more than the cow or calf is worth, plus they often lose the cow even if you call them asap. you have to ask them how much before they do some things & some will just experiment with your money. it is hard to find a good vet anymore

Soooo, they're supposed to adjust their fees based on the worth of the cow or calf? Their education, equipment, licensing, time, etc, etc, is worth less if it is a cheap cow? I believe you are supposed to determine the worth of the animal and decide whether their fee is worth it. If not, don't call them.

Yes, it is hard to find a good large animal vet, but don't worry, with people unwilling to pay, there soon won't be any to choose from, and you won't be ripped off any longer.

Perhaps you can lobby your legislature and eliminate the education requirements for licensure and anybody who feels like it can practice, then you'll have many more choices at much lower cost. If they're just going to come out and kill your cow anyway, why be educated?

 

[SRBeef]

My vet and I have a plan that he comes twice a year - once in the spring, once in the fall. It's called preventative medicine.

My vet was suggest to me by a good neighbor. The vet has cattle of his own. He knows much more about what immunizations they need, when and how to administer them and how much to administer than I will ever know. While he's here he pours them on each visit (except ones being processed in the following 90 days). He's offered to apply fly tags in the spring but I like the rubs.

In the spring we ear tag the calves, replace any missing or unreadable eartags (I supply the tags and have them made out ahead of time), cut the bull calves and calves get first shots, everyone else gets boosters. In the fall he also preg checks all yearling heifers and cows in addition to booster shots for immunizations.

It helps to have a good handling facility. I have them all in the corral before he gets there. Once we get his table set up next to the chute we run them through at about one or two minutes per head. We work together to move them through just the two of us. He knows he is not going to have to play rodeo when he comes. He can work as a professional and is gone inside an hour.

He also looks each one over and answers any questions I have about anything else.

Total cost on these two visits including all supplies, visit, etc has averaged right at $12-13/visit or about $25. per head per year. I have so far (3 years) not had any of them get sick, die or need any other medication other than his twice yearly visits.

I think this $25/head per year for preventative medicine is just part of having cattle. I don't think its just something you do because you are a beginner or have cattle as a "hobby". I think it makes economic sense any way you look at it to keep the herd healthy.

If you assume the replacement cost of a good beef cow is $700, maybe a replacement 4 wt calf is $400 not to mention the time lost in breeding etc.... $25 per year per head to keep them all healthy is an investment with a pretty good ROI (return on investment).

As mentioned several times above, if a vet is only called after internet and feed store advice fails, the vet has two strikes against him when he starts. His visit travel time and expense to treat just one or two sick animals ends up being very high per head where he could have treated the whole herd for the same visit charge if planned ahead of time as preventative medicine.

I am not qualified as a veterinarian and do not see myself ever being able to keep up to date on various things vets keep up on. I think it is well worth $25/head/year to keep them all healthy, find out if they are pregnant (that itself is worth much more given the cost of carrying an open cow for a year), castrate the calves, supply and apply appropriate immunizations for my area....

Scheduling regular twice annually vet visits seems to me to be a wide financial investment as well as making life a lot easier rather than chasing problems after they develop and possibly spread. jmho. Jim

 

[alisonb]

I feel if one is going to own an animal you should be able to treat the general ailments/sicknesses that are going to occur and only call out a vet in cases of emergencies.BTW well said djinwa!!

 

[nap]

I read on these forums where people refer to their vets rather often, and encourage others to do the same, I'm just wondering, is having a local vet over to check out your herd that common, where I live I cant think of a single time(in years) when I heard someone say they had a vet over, wouldnt that get expensive if you called a vet everytime a cow came up lame or sick, usually we just go to the co-op or some other feed store, mention whats wrong and they will recommend some type of treatment, we do it and go on about our day, its just rather interesting to me to read yall saying "get the vet".

My experience has shown that outcomes are no different except for the vet bill. I likewise find it interesting that people here recommend "get the vet". It is almost as if their margins are very wide, as in a niche market, or their cattle cost a bunch more than what I paid for mine. Other times I think posters know how much money people have and they don't have a good answer to an issue, so they say "call the vet". I don't understand it and troubles me deeply.

This attitude is precisely why young people don't go into large animal veterinary medicine. My feeling is that if you own an animal you are responsible for it's health care needs. If those needs are beyond your level of skill and daring a vet needs to be called in spite of the bottom line. In regard to the cost, if the animal isn't worth it you shouldn't have it. Do you also treat your own children when they are sick, or does the bottom line start losing its significance in that case?

 

[talldog]

Your right, I forget that alot of people on this forum are just starting out

And a vet is great to help you get started. Most of the people with just a few cows are doing it as a hobby and making $$$ is not the main concern. Best to learn while you only have a few and can afford not to make money on them. When the numbers get up, you can't afford the vet coming out all the time.

Start small and grow. Your knowledge should grow along with your herd.

Couldn't have said it better !! The learning curve is vast !!!!!!!! :tiphat:

 

[BeefmasterB]

And a vet is great to help you get started. Most of the people with just a few cows are doing it as a hobby and making $$$ is not the main concern. Best to learn while you only have a few and can afford not to make money on them. When the numbers get up, you can't afford the vet coming out all the time.

Start small and grow. Your knowledge should grow along with your herd.

Very well said, GS! When I got started it was a matter of checking what vacs to give each calf, plus boosters, and what vacs to administer to the cows on a regular basis. Then, of course, the parasite controls. Learned about these through A&M and then double checked with my cow vet. These were things I could do my self without much problem. Illness's are another matter. It takes a good bit of education and/or experience to immediately identify a type of illness with absolute accuracy. Hit or miss treatments end up costing you more, IMO. This is where my vet earns his pay in teaching me a thing or two, not to mention fixing the cows problem.

 

[HerefordSire]

depends on the vet, some will charge more than the cow or calf is worth, plus they often lose the cow even if you call them asap. you have to ask them how much before they do some things & some will just experiment with your money. it is hard to find a good vet anymore

Ethics aside temporarily, our principal objective should be to make profit. Making money depends on health of the herd. Health is probably our highest priority of all. The more money we make, the more money a vet will make.

If we are running 500 head and the bill is only $2K for a visit, and you have ten visits over a couple of years, there should be some type of economic justification just for sanity checks in return for the $20K. If the sale prices of cattle are fixed by the market, many of us have to accept a ceiling price. If drought conditions or a recession hits us, then it could throw many other line items out of whack which we have to be compensated for. On the other hand, if we owned 10 head, and the vet bill was $100 for ten visits over a couple of year period, many of us could handlle $1K in a dought and recession in a price ceiling environment. Therefore, if the percentages of vet payment are the same regardless of herd size and quality, a drought or price ceilings or recession, magnify issues much more when managing more head.

 

[SRBeef]

depends on the vet, some will charge more than the cow or calf is worth, plus they often lose the cow even if you call them asap. you have to ask them how much before they do some things & some will just experiment with your money. it is hard to find a good vet anymore

Ethics aside temporarily, our principal objective should be to make profit. Making money depends on health of the herd. Health is probably our highest priority of all. The more money we make, the more money a vet will make.

If we are running 500 head and the bill is only $2K for a visit, and you have ten visits over a couple of years, there should be some type of economic justification just for sanity checks in return for the $20K. If the sale prices of cattle are fixed by the market, many of us have to accept a ceiling price. If drought conditions or a recession hits us, then it could throw many other line items out of whack which we have to be compensated for. On the other hand, if we owned 10 head, and the vet bill was $100 for ten visits over a couple of year period, many of us could handlle $1K in a dought and recession in a price ceiling environment. Therefore, if the percentages of vet payment are the same regardless of herd size and quality, a drought or price ceilings or recession, magnify issues much more when managing more head.

I agree that most of us are in cattle to make a profit. But there are different ways of looking at "profit". Short term or long term.

Long term I think profit is better from a healthy herd. Veterinary costs are just like any other cost. since we are trying to maximize our profits, that means we should try to minimize our costs.

I think regular preventative medicine whole herd visits from a vet at a cost of about $25./head per year can be a way of maximizing profit. The trouble is it is tough to prove that.

It takes a certain investment to be in any business. I think $25 to maintian good herd health is just a part of that investment.

 

[HerefordSire]

This attitude is precisely why young people don't go into large animal veterinary medicine. My feeling is that if you own an animal you are responsible for it's health care needs. If those needs are beyond your level of skill and daring a vet needs to be called in spite of the bottom line. In regard to the cost, if the animal isn't worth it you shouldn't have it. Do you also treat your own children when they are sick, or does the bottom line start losing its significance in that case?

Thinking ethics for awhile....should a vet sacrifice their bottom lines by not charging for health care to help rancher herds that are losing money due to a drought or a recession?

 

[mnmtranching]

I think when a person starts a thread on CT asking about a health issue pertaining to cattle, we should give sound advice. Most cases I think we can be of as much help without seeing the animal as a vet. Many of us have seen just about everything.
However if the poster does seem over their head, for sure give the "call the vet" advice.
We have 5-6 Vets in this area, don't know of any that will go to the farm to say, put back a uterus. Actually only one old guy [a long time friend] has the facilities to handle cattle. He's the last one to come to the farm for emergencies. Now past 70 can't do it any more.
The other vets have small animal clinics, no facilities for big animals.
I do believe any experienced cattle man/lady would know more of treating a Bovine then these small animal vets.
AND CHARGE!! holy crap 3 stitches in the pups ear cost $290, maybe was there 1 hour total.
NO THANKS! I will deal with all health problems that come up with the cattle.

 

[HerefordSire]

AND CHARGE!! holy crap 3 stitches in the pups ear cost $290, maybe was there 1 hour total.
NO THANKS! I will deal with all health problems that come up with the cattle.

Are you saying it is possible for you to stitch your own puppy's ear? Let me see your eight year diploma that cost $200K.

 

[nap]

This attitude is precisely why young people don't go into large animal veterinary medicine. My feeling is that if you own an animal you are responsible for it's health care needs. If those needs are beyond your level of skill and daring a vet needs to be called in spite of the bottom line. In regard to the cost, if the animal isn't worth it you shouldn't have it. Do you also treat your own children when they are sick, or does the bottom line start losing its significance in that case?

Thinking ethics for awhile....should a vet sacrifice their bottom lines by not charging for health care to help rancher herds that are losing money due to a drought or a recession?

I don't think it is a matter or ethics but more a matter of pure economics. I think most large animal vets are working pretty close to the margin anyway. If owners can't afford to keep their animals their recourse is to sell them. I don't think you can hold a vet anymore responsible for covering expenses than you can hold a physician accountable for not being able to do charity work because he or she has to maintain a costly practice.

 

[mnmtranching]

AND CHARGE!! holy crap 3 stitches in the pups ear cost $290, maybe was there 1 hour total.
NO THANKS! I will deal with all health problems that come up with the cattle.

Are you saying it is possible for you to stitch your own puppy's ear? Let me see your eight year diploma that cost $200K.

Oh yeah, could have and would have. I thought maybe $50 :shock: Also wouldn't mind the pup having a little notch. :cowboy:

 

[HerefordSire]

This attitude is precisely why young people don't go into large animal veterinary medicine. My feeling is that if you own an animal you are responsible for it's health care needs. If those needs are beyond your level of skill and daring a vet needs to be called in spite of the bottom line. In regard to the cost, if the animal isn't worth it you shouldn't have it. Do you also treat your own children when they are sick, or does the bottom line start losing its significance in that case?

Thinking ethics for awhile....should a vet sacrifice their bottom lines by not charging for health care to help rancher herds that are losing money due to a drought or a recession?

I don't think it is a matter or ethics but more a matter of pure economics. I think most large animal vets are working pretty close to the margin anyway. If owners can't afford to keep their animals their recourse is to sell them. I don't think you can hold a vet anymore responsible for covering expenses than you can hold a physician accountable for not being able to do charity work because he or she has to maintain a costly practice.

Vets don't lose money like ranchers?

 

[I luv herfrds]

Now personally speaking when we have animal with an illness or injury that we cannot treat or cure the vet is called immediately.

Now I joined this board in desperation when losing those bred cows and aborted calves. Our vet was stumped and so were we.
We did find out what it was thanks to the advice given on here and the lab results that showed pasturella pnuemonia.

We cannot diagnose someones cattle on here without seeing them or even getting a full description on what is going on with them. So telling them to call the vet is the most practical thing to do. Now if they just don't want to deal with the vet then their best bet is a bullet and call it a day.

 

[rowdyred]

When I started this thread it was not my intent to bash vets, contrary to what some of the posters think, if it is an emergency, by all means get someone out that knows the problem and can fix it, thats just common sense. I had just noticed while reading different topics that it seemed to be a common theme to "call the vet" whenever anything went wrong and if thats what you think you need to do then GOD BLESS YOU and your enterprise. I think where I live that if a large farm type animal gets really sick, most people around here finds other ways to ease the pain that the animal has. I dont even know if around here we have a vet for large farm animals? I know if I have a cow that has a cough or a limp I can call a few different cowmen that can tell me whats wrong and how to fix it, our local co-op has a very good reputation for knowing what medicines one needs to give. If I, unintentionally, hurt someones feelings or ruffled some feathers, it was not my intent. Hope everyone has a great day.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Before we moved here, there was a very good Vet 30 or so miles from DFW Metroplex. Anyhoo, he did both large and small animals; however, he specialized in small animals. I took my dogs to him for annual vaccinations plus spay and neuter on 2 pups I rescued from a country ditch.

That aside, he had a "Tier System" for treating small animals. At the bottom end was good, reasonable, and effective treatment for a reasonable cost. At the TOP end, even for a minor surgical procedure (I didn't do it) he had a very expensive set of rates for the "affluent people". For example, if one wanted Fluffy to get a spay or neuter job, the fees incuded: Complete physical exam, normal sedation, EKG Monitor, Respiratory Monitor, complete Laboratory profile, etc. The "Low End (customary)" charges would be like $50 or 75. for the job. The "High End" (with all extras) would run several hundred dollars. HIS sales pitch was something like "If you REALLY love your pet...you'll agree to our 'Premium' Services". He also marketed Pet Caskets and Cemetary Plots (sub-contracted services) for those pet owners who needed quality final arrangements... He played on the sympathy and insecurities of the Fluffy lovers. [All I wanted, ordered and had done was a normal Vet surgery PLUS post-surgery antibiotics and pain-killers. The $50-75. "special". [My pups recovered very well and healthy].

Go figure....

 

[jerry27150]

didn't say i don't use a vet. i have a good vet but he is getting old. if there is something i can't handle by myself i definitely use him. but i have been in dairy most of my life (59 yrs)til the dairy herd buyout. then switched to beef for 5 yrs, then back to dairy as my boys wanted to try dairy for a few years, but they didn't like being tied down so i went back to beef. also have had sheep & they will give you lots of experience on all ways to die if you are not good at what you do. but there are three vets i tried around here that i would never call again for any reason. most my vet has ever charged is 125 for a caesarian, but i have to take them to him & help him.