Vets

[Red Bull Breeder]

We have a good Vet. Can get him to come out and give the herd there vac.,and worm them cheaper than i can buy the vacines and wormer any where else unless i buy from him.

 

[dun]

We have a good Vet. Can get him to come out and give the herd there vac.,and worm them cheaper than i can buy the vacines and wormer any where else unless i buy from him.

Our deal with the vet is the same way. He's cheaper doing it then I can buy the stuff, plus it gives me a free extra hand to help work the cows.

 

[denoginnizer]

I have a great vet and he is one of the most honest and hardworking men I know. I can call him any time and ask him a question about an animal for free. He will come out and work on anything but he will also tell me when he thinks it would be a waste of money to fix an animal. he leaves the final decision to me. In return for that I always buy all my meds and vaccines from him and offer to let him go fishing or hunting . I think in 5 years he has gone fishing twice.

 

[TheBullLady]

I"m sorry.. but this thread is bizarre to me, to say the least! I don't care how many years you've been doing this, or how "smart" your buddies at the feed store are, most people are not qualified or as knowledgeable as a vet when they have a problem! Why would anyone raise cattle and not expect to ever need a vet? I've been raising cattle for over 20 years, and I still see things I've never seen before, and the health of my cattle is more important to me than whatever expense the vet is going to charge. It's been mentioned before.. if you don't have good results with your vet, you're probably waiting too long, or "self treating" incorrectly.

 

[nap]

I"m sorry.. but this thread is bizarre to me, to say the least! I don't care how many years you've been doing this, or how "smart" your buddies at the feed store are, most people are not qualified or as knowledgeable as a vet when they have a problem! Why would anyone raise cattle and not expect to ever need a vet? I've been raising cattle for over 20 years, and I still see things I've never seen before, and the health of my cattle is more important to me than whatever expense the vet is going to charge. It's been mentioned before.. if you don't have good results with your vet, you're probably waiting too long, or "self treating" incorrectly.

This is the best comment in the entire thread! It sums up my feeling exactly.

 

[dun]

In a way I consider our vet to be almost a partner in the herd. He's the health guy and knows what's going on around here. He sees more strange diskness in a week then most of us will see in a lifetime. It's nice to be given a heads up about something that is going around before it hits us.

 

[CKC1586]

I"m sorry.. but this thread is bizarre to me, to say the least! I don't care how many years you've been doing this, or how "smart" your buddies at the feed store are, most people are not qualified or as knowledgeable as a vet when they have a problem! Why would anyone raise cattle and not expect to ever need a vet? I've been raising cattle for over 20 years, and I still see things I've never seen before, and the health of my cattle is more important to me than whatever expense the vet is going to charge. It's been mentioned before.. if you don't have good results with your vet, you're probably waiting too long, or "self treating" incorrectly.

This is the best comment in the entire thread! It sums up my feeling exactly.

:clap: :clap: :clap: Yup. Agree. I was thinking that we just may be blessed around here with great large animal vets....

 

[mnmtranching]

I think good management and proper care of your cattle is the best way to avoid illness.
By all means, you can't handle a health problem get the Vet.

 

[HerefordSire]

When a student finally gets a diploma and joins an existing practice, I can easily understand why I receive $5K vet bills (read below). I would love to see the expression on everyone of you posters when you get a bill like this in a drought or recession. As long as breeders or ranchers like me are getting charged as the result of $200K educations, the trend of vet shortages is likely to continue. Therefore, if you have a good vet, you better bring him or her a Christmas basket during the coming holidays.

"Pennsylvania has a shortage of large-animal veterinarians in certain geographic regions, as well as a shortage of practitioners in less traditional areas such as biomedical research, public health, regulatory medicine and academia," said Robert D. Fetterman, VMD, a large-animal practitioner and PVMA president. "Using loan forgiveness as an incentive to fill these voids is an investment in the state's agricultural industry, as well as in food safety and even national security."

Dr. Fetterman noted that the average veterinary student graduates with a debt load of $120,000, and the debt load of a graduate from the University of Pennsylvania is $160,000. The disparity between starting salaries and debt load can be a major factor in deciding to enter into -- and more importantly, to remain -- on a particular career path, Dr. Fetterman said.

Loan forgiveness programs typically help retire a portion of that debt for each year that the veterinarian remains in the underserved region or the sector.

http://www.cattlenetwork.com/Pennsylvan ... oid=580958

 

[HerefordSire]

I think good management and proper care of your cattle is the best way to avoid illness.

Your post sums up my feelings exactly.

 

[BeefmasterB]

When a student finally gets a diploma and joins an existing practice, I can easily understand why I receive $5K vet bills (read below). I would love to see the expression on everyone of you posters when you get a bill like this in a drought or recession. As long as breeders or ranchers like me are getting charged as the result of $200K educations, the trend of vet shortages is likely to continue. Therefore, if you have a good vet, you better bring him or her a Christmas basket during the coming holidays.

I'm just more curious than anything about that 5k bill. What exactly was it for and what was the value of the cow/bull (s) it was for?

 

[HerefordSire]

When a student finally gets a diploma and joins an existing practice, I can easily understand why I receive $5K vet bills (read below). I would love to see the expression on everyone of you posters when you get a bill like this in a drought or recession. As long as breeders or ranchers like me are getting charged as the result of $200K educations, the trend of vet shortages is likely to continue. Therefore, if you have a good vet, you better bring him or her a Christmas basket during the coming holidays.

I'm just more curious than anything about that 5k bill. What exactly was it for and what was the value of the cow/bull (s) it was for?

I have my cattle get the works. If there is a possibility they can get something in my environment, they get protection. I have had most every lab test done to know I have a solid healthy herd. This is the main reason why I didn't reply to those posts referring to contacting a vet too late when an issue arises. My experience is there is no difference in outcome except the vet bill. In the past, when anything was wrong with my herd's health, the managers contacted the vet with my approval. Let the vet make their college debt payments from someone else.

 

[HerefordSire]

The issue is not the vet. The issue is the outrageous system of education. It is out of balance! Where are the education fees going to be collected? Don't fool yourself. You are going to pay it if you call a vet. Your prices may be low now, just you wait.

Wyoming is facing a shortage of large animal and food animal veterinarians as is the rest of the nation. As veterinarians age or change the focus of practice to more lucrative small animal practice, the ranching and farming communities across the nation find food animal services more difficult to obtain. Many states have addressed this shortage by providing incentives for food animal veterinarians to come to their states to practice. With average debt load for a new graduate of $120-$170,000.00 there has to be a mechanism to ease the burden of loan repayment. The starting salary for new graduates in Wyoming is $30-$40,000.00 per year. This does not allow a decent standard of living as well as repay loans at the rate of $12,000.00-$15.000.00 per year.

http://wlsb.state.wy.us/Vet%20Loan/Wyom ... 0Sheet.pdf

 

[HerefordSire]

Do yourself a favor an search on the internet for "vet shortages". It is simple economics. Supply down, demand constant, prices rise. Supply down, demand up, prices skyrocket. Not taking into consideration ethics, before long a vet's charge can be higher than the cost of animal.

"A rural vet has more to do these days than just C-sections and pregnancy tests," he says. "Beyond being a very physically and mentally demanding job, vets face pressure from all directions as they deal with issues like food safety, beef quality assurance and animal ID."

It's no wonder prospective or future vets shy from large-animal practice — and can become discouraged by burned-out mentors or role models.

He's not saying he's burned out, but at least one practicing vet has a pragmatic opinion about the shortage of vets and the progression of the large-animal veterinary industry.

"For the last few years, I've been trying to convince my state's cattle industry about this issue," says Don Cobb, DVM, Casper, WY, a practicing vet for almost 40 years. "So far, there's little if any interest in the problem."

He laments his cow practice today is only emergency and regulatory work.

"I'm expected to be ready and available for any and all calving emergencies," he adds. "It's difficult to convince yourself to get out of a warm bed and drive in the cold and dark to deliver a calf when you're not needed for anything else."

Cobb, like many of his colleagues, also blames some of their woes on drug companies selling directly to the end-user, bypassing local vets. Many vets say pharmaceutical sales were once a large part of their income.

"It's resulted in producers purchasing products from uninformed and untrained sources, and eliminates practicing vets from any input in preventive medicine," he explains. "My drug sales have declined to next to nothing."

Cobb says it's become so costly to get a veterinary degree that it's impossible for a newly educated vet to pay his or her debt and make a living in a rural community without some kind of relief.

"Until the industry commits to assisting education debt, and ensures the person returns to the community, that won't change," he says. "Until we can recruit more livestock-oriented people who want to live in rural areas, how can there be any hope for change?"

http://beefmagazine.com/mag/beef_wheres_vet/

 

[redcowsrule33]

And, the older vets need to raise their prices so they can afford to hire new ones to replace them. Without offering the salary and benefits the kids need to be able to eat, keep a roof over their head, and pay off a $800-$1200/month education loan, they can't be charging $15 for trip fee and $60/hour any more. Plus the younger generations want a better life/work balance than the older vets have allowed themselves (we all appreciate them being at our beck and call 24/7 and never taking a vacation, but those who are their loved ones suffer). In order to have that, you need to have more than one new vet. There goes the overhead again - up! Growing up on a farm we worked all the time, too, but along side each other, so it was family time too. Most older vet's kids barely knew 'em, and all they can say is they provided for a family that they never got to see. Most kids of large animal vets that I know say no way do I want those kind of hours for that kind of physical abuse and pay and persue other venues. Who can blame them?

And now they face more litigation and liability than every before. Our older vets are happy they are approaching retirement because the way things are going they will have to spend half their day keeping their butts covered through paperwork and explaining for the gazillionth time the pros/cons/risks of a DA surgery to a farmer that doesn't want to hear it, so they don't get sued by the one who does but didn't get to hear it.

So, here's an employment ad for you: we need you to spend 8 years post high school and $120,000 so you can live in a beautiful rural area and work with some great people. You will spend most of your time doing it, will get very little free time until you retire, might have a your debts paid by then, and will get sued if you screw up. Everyone will love you as long as you can come right away, don't charge them much, and have a 100% success rate. Our area is a great place for your spouse to raise your family. Good thing you will love your job!

Better off staying on the farm.

 

[MO_cows]

I think vets are a lot like schoolteachers, they go into it mainly because they love animals or children. It's steady work, but they don't expect to become wealthy. If they do they better specialize in million dollar racehorses, polo ponies and maybe big name bucking bulls.

It's not easy but it is possible to work one's way thru college and not graduate with a huge debt. My sister did it twice, first to become an RN and then to move up to nurse-practitioner. Not everybody has that much drive or self discipline, but it's possible to do.

 

[Howdyjabo]

I understand vets wanting to make lots of money
But they can't do it off of small operations with commercial cattle.

What I would like to see is the equivalent of physicians assistants-- someone that knows cattle inside and out- but doesn't have the years and costs the vets have invested- working under a vets supervision and counsel.

 

[redcowsrule33]

Most of the vets I know aren't after the big bucks. They have a lot of overhead. Like the rest of us they would like to have enough at the end of the day for a burger and a beer.

Most vet schools aren't set up so you can hold a well-paying job and go to school. You can't take a few courses every semester and take your time; you have to take the full load with your class. You can make money at a summer job for two summers, but then during the last year you have a nearly 24/7 schedule so a job is not possible. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's darned near impossible not to have some level of debt unless you saved until you had the four-year tuition then went.

 

[HerefordSire]

Do yourself a favor an search on the internet for "vet shortages". It is simple economics. Supply down, demand constant, prices rise. Supply down, demand up, prices skyrocket. Not taking into consideration ethics, before long a vet's charge can be higher than the cost of animal.

You know, I was thinking a little while ago about Barney Frank. He was on C-Span the other day in a town hall meeting. It was a hoot. I would have paid $50 to see it. Anyway, animal health care is allot like human health care except there is no public option for competition to keep the insurance companies from jacking prices up. It is not quite a monopoly yet, but it is very close. It is almost like electric or water service except there is no public service commission. The sky is the limit. Reminds me of reading about the California Gold rush.

 

[showing71]

I don't think the problem with kids not wanting to become vets is the pay. Most kids wanting to become vets love animals and have ag backgrounds and know the importance of a good vet. The problem is actually getting into vet school. I have several friends who were going to be vets, had 4.0 GPAs, and could not pass the the interview process. Vet schools are making it extremely difficult to get in. Not only are you supposed to have nothing less than a 3.5 GPA, they also want you to be well rounded; so you have to stay on top of school work, while being involved in many clubs. I have been told by my sister-in-law to be (who will be going to the University of Minnesota next fall for vet school) that the requirements that were needed to go to vet school was almost too much for her and she had thought about quitting. She had to interview twice. I've also heard in certain schools, becoming a vet is almost harder to do than becoming a doctor. :?