Why don't vets want to doctor cattle any more?

[Medic24]

Aaaaaahhhh, We are so lucky , and blessed, many of you have read my posts praising the few vets we have in the area...The one that comes from Marion NC, has at least an hour's ride to get here...........and he has done it numerous times and without compliant. he is loved like one of our own extended family.

We also have a large clinic over the mountains into TN, that works on anything and everything. Good place to also get some help from the team approach.

We wince when we see any of the bills, but never complain, after all, the folks are educated at great expense, set up practice at great expense, and operate at great expense. So I don't begrudge any reasonable bill, and so far, they have been just that.

My wife, whom works in the medical field tells me she is often ashamed at the costs for care, especially to the elderly, and the truly poor. But she has little or no influence on that. But a vet still charges but a fraction of that.

She is not the rugged, farm and ranch type of woman, so, unless we are talking about a true emergency , she rarely comes through that gate. Her opinion is that is the reasons we have vets. and i can't say I blame her for that. And she loves ours................soooooooooooooo.

One thing I would like to add to this string is this.........gripe how ever much you want, but you can make the job easier for your vet, thus more willing to make return visits, and perhaps not charge so much for his wasted time. Make sure he or she has no gripes when they LEAVE your farm.

1) Have the animals that need attention penned ,and ready to go, this may also mean some additional help to be there, along with some more means of restraints as well......no vet I know of wants a wild animal on his or her hands.Nor do they want to be 'in there' by themselves.


2) Provide some facilities for them to clean up in, either a milkhouse, a wash room, or you bringing out some warm water, soap, and towels. And lots of em.

3) Don't expect your vet to work in a sh$thole, provide them with a clean and reasonably comfortable place to work. Imagine being on your knees trying to pull out a calf in a pen 12 inches deep of manure, or snow for that matter.

4) If it's a job for more then just the two of you, then darn it, get some willing help BEFORE hand! And make sure they are there for the vet to use.

5) Pay the darn bill NOW! You will have to pay it soon enough, make it the same moment the vet hands you the bill. And be done with it. Everyone is so much happier that way.

6) If you have any questions or concerns, ask before they leave, not at 1am the next morning.

7) And just something we do around here, We let them know how much they are appreciated, not only by telling them, but while they are here, a nice warm cup or coffee, a slice of homemade cake, a cold dope, or even an invitation to the next meal really lets them know they are well appreciated. If he or she smells it cooking while you are working, they need to be invited to be part of that meal as well..IMO. many won't remember that this custom was very common place until just recently.

8) Last but certainly not least, dont expect miracles, if you have waited to call them, until you have tried without success all of your remedies, and the poor animal is taking it's last breaths., yes, I doctor most of my own animals, and likely 90% of them successfully, but, when it comes to serious illness, or injury, I call him FIRST! , and when in doubt of the outcome of my own doctorings, I put a call into him to get him informed, and up to speed of what I am doing, and often let him make the call as to the need to visit or not. IMO, that shows some respect for him.




JMHO.................... :cboy:

 

[memanpa]

flaboy, the main reason i am paying for my granddaughters education is so she can better herself, and yes there might be a little selfishness on my part wanting her to become a LA vet, hoping to use her expertice where mine fails!
but no matter what she has my support 100% in any area she goes, it is just with a lot of hope she continues being interested in LA. if not she still has all of my support!
vicky
what you said makes sense, we all try to cut corners to save a buck,
how ever 99% of the folks that bring dogs and cats to the vet are clueless as to what to do if the cute little bundle of fluff gets a little problem. there fore take it to the vet fast!
yes we as stock producers try to handle the situation using what little knowledge we have, but if the going gets tuff call in the expert! and have things as organized as well as possible before the expert gets there, some times not always possible,
i for one realize the cost that it takes to get to where you are and truely feel that without folks like you we woulld ALL be in a world of hurt at times!
my hats off to you big time! as it is to all those that get up in the middle of the night, or miss dinner, or whatever to get us back on the right track! :heart:
the vet i use said to me a few weeks ago
the dogs and cats i work with allows me to be able to do what i love to do, work with cattle and horses! and the dogs and cats have to be scheduled unless it is a real emergency!

 

[frenchie]

You have a C-section to do on a cow 100 miles away. Drive time is costly but you charge $75 bucks and the client hits the roof.

.

Bez'

Your vet works cheap Bez.

Last c-section here cost over $350.00 .vet is 12 miles away.

That would just be for the drive. The section would be on top of that...

Of course..$50.00 of that was mileage.

 

[stocky]

Vicky, All of your points have merit. However, things are considerably different in your area than in my area financially. Here, we have no secretaries earning 6 figure salaries and we have no vets working 100 hours per week. So, that comparison doesnt fit this area.
There are more beef mama cows within 125 miles of where I live than anywhere else in the United States according to the agriculture department. There are about 25 cattle auctions in that area. There is one vet who has an office 20 miles away who will come out for a cow if it is one of the days he makes house calls. He generally works 4 days per week and some of that time he will make farm calls, so it isnt easy to find an appointment time without it being quite a while in advance. He is an outstanding person and a very good vet. We get along very well. However, I know that if I have an animal that needs his attention, he will probably not be available.
A farm call costs around 75 dollars plus mileage of over 1 dollar per mile over 15 miles. There is a fee for examining the animal and a fee for any service he provides and that is all before the medicine which is billed a huge profit per cc over what it would cost in a bottle.
Most farm calls take about a half hour and the vet can make 6-8 during his working hours. If the call takes longer, there is an extra time charge. In a normal 8 hour day, the vet will take in a minimum of 600-1000 dollars for his time, not counting profit on medicine. There is such a demand for vet work here that a vet can literally work all the hours he wants to and be busy. He can decide what his income is by how many hours he wants to work.
I know there are expenses and my vet has a set of metal corrals and a headchute in an old building which has dog pens and cat pens where he spends the majority of his working time with small animals.
I know it is much easier for a vet to work at a farm in a great facility that is clean and handy. I have yet to meet a farmer who hasnt had a cow have problems in an area where she cannot be gotten to the corral. That is one of the cattle facts of life.
Lots of people on this thread have come up with very good points. I just dont agree with the argument that a vet working on large animals goes broke or does without for his or her family.
Every vet I have known in my life has had huge farms, a fancy home, all new vehicles, and been better off financially than anyone in the area. I have never seen a vet who made as little amount of money as the farmers who he worked for.
I do not begrudge anyone for getting what they can get, be it ball players, lawyers, doctors, or vets. Vets go to school a very long time and what they earn, they deserve. Economics say that a farmer can pay what he can pay. When the service is more than he can afford, he simply has to let the animal die. Right now, cattle prices are good, but when they break, many of those animals wont be worth what the vet charge will be and most farmers cant afford to doctor animals to get them well to sell at less than the vet fee.
It is a fact of life that we cant pay a vet to come out to do services that we can learn to do. It is another fact of life that if you could afford to, the vet wouldnt be available. If an animal gets sick on Friday afternoon, it has to wait until Monday or Tuesday, if Monday is a holiday, to get vet attention. If I cant perform what the animal needs, it will die. It is that simple. Farmers get very frustrated hauling the animals they need to make their payments to the dead pile because no vet works the hours that the animal needed help.
I appreciate very much any help I get from the vet. However, I know most of the time cows do not get sick during office hours or one of the days during the week when my vet works. It is a fact that a vet can make more money doing small animals just the same as a doctor can make more money being a specialist than a general medicine doctor. If a vet chooses only small animals, more power to him or her. It creates alot of frustration from owners of large animals, but the vet shouldnt be surprised at this or fail to understand the reason for it, or criticize the farmer for feeling that way.
Sorry for the long post, There are many good arguments from the vets side and from the farmers side, I just have never seen in this area where financial hardships on the vet have ever come into play.

 

[msscamp]

I have yet to meet a farmer who hasnt had a cow have problems in an area where she cannot be gotten to the corral. That is one of the cattle facts of life.

Well, you just met one. My Dad has been ranching for better than 50 years and in all that time the vet has never, ever had to deal with a sick animal in the pasture. He/she has always been in the corral with access to the chute/headgate, etc.

If an animal gets sick on Friday afternoon, it has to wait until Monday or Tuesday, if Monday is a holiday, to get vet attention. If I cant perform what the animal needs, it will die.

I guess we are lucky. We have a vet that can and will come out at any time of the day or night. He is about 75 years old, semi-retired and, given his druthers, he'd rather not but he personally told me that if the non-retired vets are busy and can't come he would.

 

[docgraybull]

a cold dope,

Medic, what does that mean? Maybe that's why your vet is so friendly?! :lol:

 

[Wewild]

a cold dope,

Medic, what does that mean? Maybe that's why your vet is so friendly?! :lol:

It use to mean a Coca-Cola.

 

[Vicky the vet]

Vicky, All of your points have merit. However, things are considerably different in your area than in my area financially. Here, we have no secretaries earning 6 figure salaries and we have no vets working 100 hours per week. So, that comparison doesnt fit this area.

Well, we have no large animal vets earning 6 figures and frankly, I used to work 100 hours a week to earn less than 50,000/y CANADIAN...

As for the rest of your comments on your area, I would assert that YOUR area is abnormal, and my experiences are more the norm. There are fewer vets graduating who wish to practice large animal because of all the hassles, injuries and abuse they take vs small animal medicine and surgery. Something I didn't mention was the respect accorded a small animal vet vs large... I do not believe that every sick animal needs to see the vet, but perhaps consider that there are instances in which things could be set up to be faster, cleaner, more convenient, more humane and do it. If your area has that many cows and no large mobile practice with several vets, there's a reason. And the reason would be that your area WON'T support it, and thus they can't survive. OR, alternatively you can believe that all vets are jerks out to make the biggest buck. Your choice.

 

[johndeerefarmer]

Ok, listening to most of you I fully understand why there are few or no large animal vets out there.

Just a few points from the vet's perspective.

1) You don't bother calling me until one of three things happens...either you've tried everything else you can think of and it didn't work, it's late and you want to go to bed, or it's dying.

What do you care? You still get your fee........ Besides, it has been this way since the 30's or before...

2) You complain about the bill...constantly...and then are slow to pay... Trying being a plumber or electrician or auto mechanic. All customers complain. You got into this profession knowing full well that you had to be good at customer service.

3) your profits go up but when my expenses go up, I'm not allowed to charge more. When your profits drop, I'm expected to charge less. I have never saw a vet lower his/ her prices when cattle prices drop. Maybe your customers whine because they know that you will drop your prices....

4) You go searching for cheaper drugs, vaccines and free advice, then wonder why I'm not available all the time at your convenience. I have expenses and it would be nice to have a life as well. So with this logic, if you were having a heart attack and your doctor wasn't available, it would be ok if you died?

If it sounds like I'm crabby, look at it from my perspective. Why should I work 100 h a week to earn what a secretary earns and take the abuse? Sounds like you need to take some courses in customer service and finance.........

Just a thought from the other side...

Just thoughts from my side................. :lol:

 

[Texan]

That's a pretty rough post, johndeerefarmer. Maybe you have a problem with vets and have misdirected some of your anger or disgust toward Vicky? Vicky who spends a lot of her personal time here. Trying to help people for free. I think many of us often fail to appreciate that.

But then, many of us expect freebies from our vets all the time. Free advice about treatment, then we go to the feed store for the products. Raise Hell if they bill us for something that died anyway. Even though we waited three days too late to call them. Expect them to price their services on a sliding scale tied to our profits. What's that all about? We treat our vets in ways that we would never dream of treating an MD. Why? They are both professionals with only a slight difference in education and investment. And if we paid for common sense, the DVM would surely deserve a premium compared to the MD.

Like Dun said, this thread really makes me realize how lucky I am to have the vet I've got. And to realize that maybe I ought to tell him that more often. In a good year, a lucky year, my wife spends more at the vet on her dog than we spend on cattle. He fully understands that he is an expense that we try to do without. His SA work affords him the opportunity to help us when we need him at a price that doesn't put us out of business. He'll do anything, anytime. Including telling me when it's time to save my money. That's priceless. In exchange, I don't gripe about the bill. I try to pay him before he can bill me, whenever possible. Even if it means driving 50 miles to do it the next day. Because he doesn't always feel like writing out a bill when he's through and I don't always have my checkbook.

I try to go out of my way to tell my vet when I'm asking for a consultation. And I think we need to use that word more often with them so that they know that we are expecting to pay them for their time. Mine never bills me for it, but at least he knows that I understand that I'm getting something for nothing. I buy stuff from him that costs way too much compared to ValleyVet. But I want him to make that profit because I want him to be here when I need him. And there are even times when I have had to call him after receiving the bill to tell him about a mistake---such as forgetting to bill me for something that he did. I want him to get everything he's got coming to him.

But I got sidetracked from my original intent---Vicky provides a lot of freebies and a lot of time here. I expect that she is always out there checking posts to see if she's needed. Most of the time, she lets others handle it. She probably laughs a lot, too. I hope we don't ever take advantage of her willingness to help by asking for her free personal advice too often. But after johndeerefarmer's post, something needs to be said---

We appreciate you Vicky!

Most of us, anyway.

 

[milkmaid]

But I got sidetracked from my original intent---Vicky provides a lot of freebies and a lot of time here. I expect that she is always out there checking posts to see if she's needed. Most of the time, she lets others handle it. She probably laughs a lot, too. I hope we don't ever take advantage of her willingness to help by asking for her free personal advice too often. But after johndeerefarmer's post, something needs to be said---

We appreciate you Vicky!

Most of us, anyway.

Ditto and well said.

I can't speak for others, but I for one sure appreciate the help you've given me, Vicky... Here's a sincere thanks from me.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

We appreciate you Vicky!

Most of us, anyway.

Count me in on the appreciation group.
I also am fortunate with the vet I use. His farm call is $75.00, and doesn't charge for mileage, even though it will take him a minimum of an hour to get here. He has been incredibly helpful with phone consults and doesn't charge me for them. I have always felt his bills were reasonable. Besides large animals, he has a small animal practice and cannot always come out at the "drop of a hat", but will help by phone, call back to see how things are going, and will come out as soon as he is available. I, personally, am satisfied with that kind of service.
I also have to agree with all the points that Medic stated. I think, JMO, that if I can make it a bit easier for my "cow doctor" to do his/her job, it makes it easier on everyone.

Katherine

 

[johndeerefarmer]

I appreciate vets that act professional and don't whine about customers and that show up when they are needed.

Show me one in this area and I will appreciate them.
:roll:

 

[Vicky the vet]

Sounds like you need to take some courses in customer service and finance........

Thank you for your deep and abiding insight. I'm certain to help you out every chance I get, since you have such a clear understanding of financial matters and a condescending point of view.

For the others who feel differently, I'll still be reading and helping on occasion.

V

 

[Workinonit Farm]

For the others who feel differently, I'll still be reading and helping on occasion.

V

Thank you Vicky.

Katherine

 

[Crowderfarms]

Vicky,
I for one can say on many occaisions, that I've seen someone post an SOS, and you have come to the rescue.I think it's great that you donate your time here when you surely have better things to do. We have a great Vet, but I can assure you, he's not on here helping anyone with "free of charge" advice. Thanks.

 

[rwtherefords]

I've been reading this topic with some interest. Most people here seem to have an appreciation for the services their Vet. provides, and I for one am also very appreciative for my local Vet.'s service. They do a great job! They're always willing to discuss a problem I may be having with my cattle and offer FREE advice, just like Vicky does here. Consequently, I do whatever I can to support them.

Vicky, thanks for your participation on this site.

I wonder if some of the ranchers who have a problem with Vet.'s making a choice to go into small animal care for economic reasons, have changed their herds to black hides, or whatever the latest fad is that brings a little more money at the sale barn? In fact, I'd bet many have jobs other than ranching, purely for economic reasons.

 

[msscamp]

That's a pretty rough post, johndeerefarmer. Maybe you have a problem with vets and have misdirected some of your anger or disgust toward Vicky? Vicky who spends a lot of her personal time here. Trying to help people for free. I think many of us often fail to appreciate that.

But then, many of us expect freebies from our vets all the time. Free advice about treatment, then we go to the feed store for the products. Raise Hell if they bill us for something that died anyway. Even though we waited three days too late to call them. Expect them to price their services on a sliding scale tied to our profits. What's that all about? We treat our vets in ways that we would never dream of treating an MD. Why? They are both professionals with only a slight difference in education and investment. And if we paid for common sense, the DVM would surely deserve a premium compared to the MD.

Like Dun said, this thread really makes me realize how lucky I am to have the vet I've got. And to realize that maybe I ought to tell him that more often. In a good year, a lucky year, my wife spends more at the vet on her dog than we spend on cattle. He fully understands that he is an expense that we try to do without. His SA work affords him the opportunity to help us when we need him at a price that doesn't put us out of business. He'll do anything, anytime. Including telling me when it's time to save my money. That's priceless. In exchange, I don't gripe about the bill. I try to pay him before he can bill me, whenever possible. Even if it means driving 50 miles to do it the next day. Because he doesn't always feel like writing out a bill when he's through and I don't always have my checkbook.

I try to go out of my way to tell my vet when I'm asking for a consultation. And I think we need to use that word more often with them so that they know that we are expecting to pay them for their time. Mine never bills me for it, but at least he knows that I understand that I'm getting something for nothing. I buy stuff from him that costs way too much compared to ValleyVet. But I want him to make that profit because I want him to be here when I need him. And there are even times when I have had to call him after receiving the bill to tell him about a mistake---such as forgetting to bill me for something that he did. I want him to get everything he's got coming to him.

But I got sidetracked from my original intent---Vicky provides a lot of freebies and a lot of time here. I expect that she is always out there checking posts to see if she's needed. Most of the time, she lets others handle it. She probably laughs a lot, too. I hope we don't ever take advantage of her willingness to help by asking for her free personal advice too often. But after johndeerefarmer's post, something needs to be said---

We appreciate you Vicky!

Most of us, anyway.

:clap: :clap: Very well said, Texan!

 

[Chuck]

I appreciate vets that act professional and don't whine about customers and that show up when they are needed.

It must really suck a hind one to live in an area that is that short on LA vets. That being said, it's a two way street- most of the vets I know also appreciate clients who act professional, don't whine, and who call promptly when their services are needed. The unhelpful ones are the exception. For us, it's a relationship (both business and personal) that has been built over time. It may be that the vet who was on call should have just said I don't do large animals or something, but for whatever reason, he didn't. Maybe this was a good way for your friend to learn that this particular vet service did not meet her needs,and get set up with the one 20 miles from you, and that a good vac program is a good investment, since unless the vet was Harry Potter, the calf was not likely to recover.

 

[stocky]

Msscamp, you do have a very good situation with your vet coming out any time. We had that situation for about 25 years until the younger vets paid him a large sum of money to quit coming out. He started selling medicine from his house for a reasonable profit and they paid him a bunch of money to stop doing that also. He was an outstanding person and as good a vet as any. He passed away this past summer. We were very fortunate to have him and he spoiled all the farmers in the area with his dedication. He also accumulated many farms worth several million dollars and his wife was his helper, so they accumulated all this with what he made as a vet., and I never heard anyone say he charged too much for anything. He charged about 20-25 percent of what today's vets charge.
It is admirable that you and your father have a situation where you have always been able to have the animal at the chute to be doctored. I really wouldnt have believed you could run cattle all those years and never have a situation where an animal was in a brushy hollow or in an inaccessible place and got down and couldnt be moved. I wish it were so in this area.
The main problems that have happened where a cow couldnt be moved to a chute to receive help are trying to freshen and having a calf locked up that has her down---this can happen in any one of the brush filled hollows or open fields or anywhere a cow can get a bite of grass or go to hide. To move her from that area, would kill her and the calf in some situations. Other times that the cow has to have attention where she is would be grass tetnae or milk fever. They tend to go and hide in the brush when they feel that bad, and you cant move them once they are down. There are other things that have happened when they cant be moved. When a cow is down and cant move or get up, she needs to be doctored where she is. I am sure that some would say use a tractor and front end loader to move her, but most of the places they get down arent accessible for a tractor and to run a long rope and drag her a few hundred feet, well, might as well just shoot her. Most of the cattle can be gotten to a pen with a chute, but there are times here that it isnt possible. Glad you have never had that situation where you have found one of your animals that couldnt be gotten to a chute. But, then, 30 years ago, no one in our part of the country even had a chute, just a lane with gate at the end. And you said your dad used head chutes 50 years ago, so that shows how far behind we are in my area which has such a huge concentration of mama cows.