Why don't vets want to doctor cattle any more?

[stocky]

Vicky, I never said anything about vets being jerks. I mentioned several times that I appreciate very much the help I have gotten from them. I said they work very hard and earn and deserve whatever they get. I applaud you for your work and dedication. I wish you received the kind of money that the people here do for doing a fraction of the work and spending a fraction of the time that you spend helping people. I believe we are abnormal here in that we have more mama cows here than any other area in the country. I sure hope we are abnormal with our shortage of vets. There is one vet who has a van and trailer and hires a guy to go to sales every day of the week to sell medicine and give advice how to use it, so it cuts down on the calls for him. There are far more calls than vets to make them. I apologize to you for anything I said that was offensive to you. I have known the vets very well in my area and I just think it is incorrect to inject in the discussion that they dont make enough money for their family to live by doctoring large animals. They can make more by working small animals, but they make very good with large animals. Each area is different and it is obvious that your area works much different. I am sorry for anything I said that offended you in my other post.

 

[msscamp]

Msscamp, you do have a very good situation with your vet coming out any time. We had that situation for about 25 years until the younger vets paid him a large sum of money to quit coming out. He started selling medicine from his house for a reasonable profit and they paid him a bunch of money to stop doing that also. He was an outstanding person and as good a vet as any. He passed away this past summer.

We were very fortunate to have him and he spoiled all the farmers in the area with his dedication. He also accumulated many farms worth several million dollars and his wife was his helper, so they accumulated all this with what he made as a vet., and I never heard anyone say he charged too much for anything. He charged about 20-25 percent of what today's vets charge.
It is admirable that you and your father have a situation where you have always been able to have the animal at the chute to be doctored. I really wouldnt have believed you could run cattle all those years and never have a situation where an animal was in a brushy hollow or in an inaccessible place and got down and couldnt be moved. I wish it were so in this area.

The main problems that have happened where a cow couldnt be moved to a chute to receive help are trying to freshen and having a calf locked up that has her down---this can happen in any one of the brush filled hollows or open fields or anywhere a cow can get a bite of grass or go to hide. To move her from that area, would kill her and the calf in some situations. Other times that the cow has to have attention where she is would be grass tetnae or milk fever. They tend to go and hide in the brush when they feel that bad, and you cant move them once they are down. There are other things that have happened when they cant be moved. When a cow is down and cant move or get up, she needs to be doctored where she is. I am sure that some would say use a tractor and front end loader to move her, but most of the places they get down arent accessible for a tractor and to run a long rope and drag her a few hundred feet, well, might as well just shoot her. Most of the cattle can be gotten to a pen with a chute, but there are times here that it isnt possible. Glad you have never had that situation where you have found one of your animals that couldnt be gotten to a chute. But, then, 30 years ago, no one in our part of the country even had a chute, just a lane with gate at the end. And you said your dad used head chutes 50 years ago, so that shows how far behind we are in my area which has such a huge concentration of mama cows.

Do I detect sarcasm and/or disbelief in this response? I'm sure I can find a picture of our original chute if it would make you feel better. Perhaps it's a matter of you being a little behind the times or maybe it's simply a matter of Dad being a little more resourceful than you are. Take your pick, I don't care. I'm over men telling me (however they choose to hide it) that I don't know what the hell I'm talking about! Get your head out of your ass, get a clue and accept the fact that women can and are every bit as good as men when it comes to a lot of things - cattle being just one of those things!

 

[stocky]

Msscamp, No sarcasm and No disbelief was put into my post. I would never claim to know more about a persons operation than they do, be it woman or man. There is no doubt that your father was more rescourceful than mine. Mine always believed that hard work was the cure-all. He never learned that smarter work was a better answer and that is why at 72 his body has been worn out almost 20 years. There are many things that you know more about in the way of cattle than I do. I just know some of the simple things that seem to work more often for me than some others. I wont respond further, other than to say that I am sorry you took my post the way you did.

 

[flaboy]

Just a couple of comments. I unfortunate enough that I am unable to get a LA vet in my area without having to fly him in or pay $200 just to drive in. That's ok I will do what I can myself and live with it. I have always had the proper facilities to handle cattle for the vets. I had one come up years ago and would not even go through the gate leading to the squeeze chute. He stood back and made suggestions and gave me the drugs to shoot her up with. Now he only charged me for the drugs not the visit as he had waited until he had some horses to call on in my area before coming. That pretty much ended the vet visits for me. Now I know he was the 1%'r but... Also, I always paid on the spot also. Now if my stock were worth thousands a piece I would have to rethink my approach.

I took my dogs in for their yearly and asked my vet if she would get me some frozen colostrum. At first she gave me a blank stare and she finally said something to the effect, "oh you mean the calf milk"? She then said, "no we don't do that sort of thing here". Not what I wanted to hear.

I guess it is like everything else. There are the good, not so good, and the bad ones.

Now the only time mine see a vet is if the state mandates some sort of testing and then I tell them to recommend LA vet in my area!

 

[dun]

Everyone poopooed the concept of finding out if there were LA animal, specifically cattle, vets in an area when you're first getting started. From a lot of these responses, seems like an even better idea to me now then it did when I origianlly mentioned it. For someone starting out (and some of us that have been at it for a while), letting an animal die because of our lack of skills/knowledge is a thought not easily dealt with if we can;t get a vets assistance.

dun

 

[Chuck]

I think it's a good idea, Dun. A couple of the places that we've looked at buying for a new home place were turned down because of that very reason. They had pretty much everything we were looking for and the price was less than a lot of places we've seen, but one big drawback was no vet service close by. We are trying to stay closer to where we are now even though land prices are higher partly because of that. Over the span of the rest of my life, I think it will be worth it.

 

[msscamp]

Msscamp, No sarcasm and No disbelief was put into my post. I would never claim to know more about a persons operation than they do, be it woman or man. There is no doubt that your father was more rescourceful than mine. Mine always believed that hard work was the cure-all. He never learned that smarter work was a better answer and that is why at 72 his body has been worn out almost 20 years. There are many things that you know more about in the way of cattle than I do. I just know some of the simple things that seem to work more often for me than some others. I wont respond further, other than to say that I am sorry you took my post the way you did.

I'm sorry, too stocky. Apology accepted and I hope you will accept mine as well. Thank you for being willing to clarify and giving me the chance to accept your apology and offer mine. That means a lot.

 

[brownmule]

my daughter is becomming a vet, she has worked in vet hosptial, lttle old ladies and there poddles, and the stock yards withthe "cow doc's" i keep reminding her,, not to forget us large animal people! she has seen frist hand the need of large animal vets way before she started school. some thing happens in the middle of the night, you call your farmer firends. and do what you can do. i cant promise to have very many vets out there to do farm calls and work on something bigger than 20 lbs but i will put one out there in the field! she had a great time working at the stock yard with the cows, once the ol cowboys excepted her..and realized she wasnt afraid to get a little poop on the boots LOL Rose

 

[dream catcher]

It is going to get harder to get a vet for large animals. I was up at Pullman washington state with a horse and talking to the vets there and the students don't want to do large animals they want to do small more money in it and no traveling from farm to farm and can see more animals in a day that is what they are saying. And they don't have the long hours and night calls and can spend time with their famialys, most of the student there working with large animals are going to school to be small animal vets and say they are forced to practice the large animals as part of their schooling so a lot of them have I don't care and don't want to be working on large animals attitudes. And to tell you the truth if they are not going to do large animals why force them to do it at school, because I sure don't want those attitudes working on my horses or cattle. The student caused one to flip over because they never handled a horse before and was scared of it so let them stay where they want to be and feel comfortable.

 

[born2run]

I've whined for years that I can't find a local vet to look at my horses. They come in here with a feisty attitude and than wonder why my horses misbehave when they're trying to do something as simple as draw blood for Coggins.

We have our share of vets that pretty well specialize in dairy cattle. They aren't living extravagantly, but are making ends meet.

 

[brownmule]

we lucked out an year ago and have an equine vet close that does farm calls, just a little blond gal,never belive she get right in there and do what she needs to do. we are so impressed with her. she truly cares about the animals, and will do what ever it takes no matter how it takes,, the older vets here has lost the drive to care it seems and they will not come out, sometimes you get a horse hurt that you cant trailor. i just wish she'd work with cows.. gonna have a talk with her about that..my friend jane's little jack got his foot cut last summer{sliced in open down to the hoof}she came and fixed him up, she has stop by to ck on him when she was in the neighbor hood looking at some one elses horse...because she was concernd! Rose

 

[Alan]

don't let my grandaughter see these posts about how much dog/cat vets make!!
she is in the process of applying for vet schools to become a large animal vet, if she sees these posts she might change her mind!
hate to lose my investment of helping her pay for schooling should she decide to change her mind!!
vickey any suggestions ? has a 3.7 gpa U of ARIZ, which she is not fond of the vet program. currently working for a large animal vet and loves it PROTECT my investment folks am paying her tution !!
UC DAVIS? U OF COLO? others??

Boy I wish I would have caught this post in Sept. Interesting reading, here's my two cents:

Texas A&M, one of the best in the country, I live in Oregon where the Vet school is Oregon State.... Texas A&M one of the best in the country.

I have alway stuck up for Vets, I work in the industry, no I'm not even close to being a vet and I wouldn't even think about asking for free advice from them, not with the expenses they have to endure to be a Vet. Education, equipment, inventory, facilities, ect.

I have seen the bitchin and complaining alot (not all) of cattle people do about the expense of a Vet. Face it, small animal and Horse people are willing to pay the price for the Vet without much thought about it, where cattle people have to have a price tag on the animal because it is a product not a loved one.

There is not the money in cattle for Vets like there is in small animal or equine pratice.

Vicky the Vet, my hat is off to you for many reasons I have seen how hard it is to be a Vet and I have seen many cases of verbal abuse Vets take from some cleints and the repeat abuse because the same client can't believe the Vet won't see them anymore. I have been in resturants, haveing lunch or dinner with Vets that have two or three people come up during dinner and ask for advice on Foo Foo, or a horse, during a relaxing lunch and conversation.

Johndeere, tough post and you need to look at it from the other side, why do you think the Vet may be late? Large animal Vets just can't keep to a schedule when the make farm calls, as you can tell I do some ride arounds with Vets and you really never know what you'll find when you pull up to a farm call, clients are not ready for the vet, they the have the "oh while you are here" thing going on, picking the vets brain for everything that must have been written on a list before hand, having the client tell you they are going inside to write a check only to show up 45 minute later, telling you the phone rang and they just can't get Clyde off the phone.

Yea I just can't understand why Vets would want to work in a Clinic, not make farm calls and only work on dog and cats, where they get paid better money on time with less pain and suffering. Why have ill feelings about someone wanting to make more money and do it easier?

My two cents and again wish I would have caught this in Sept. good reading!

Alan

 

[Victoria]

We have two great vets that are on call 24/7. They care about the animals they work with. I had always thought that was how all vets were until I came here and started reading the problems other people have. They are also my dog's vets.

I can see why vets want to take care of small animals for the reasons others have already said. The younger generation of ranchers isn't taking over from the older generation (in many cases) now for the reasons. It has to be in the blood and for many it just isn't.

 

[TheLazyM]

Ok, listening to most of you I fully understand why there are few or no large animal vets out there.

Just a few points from the vet's perspective.

1) You don't bother calling me until one of three things happens...either you've tried everything else you can think of and it didn't work, it's late and you want to go to bed, or it's dying.

2) You complain about the bill...constantly...and then are slow to pay...

3) your profits go up but when my expenses go up, I'm not allowed to charge more. When your profits drop, I'm expected to charge less.

4) You go searching for cheaper drugs, vaccines and free advice, then wonder why I'm not available all the time at your convenience. I have expenses and it would be nice to have a life as well.

If it sounds like I'm crabby, look at it from my perspective. Why should I work 100 h a week to earn what a secretary earns and take the abuse?

Just a thought from the other side...

Vicky please understand i'm not picking and i fully appreciate vets. my wife is in school right now. she was suppose to finish this May but due to her being pregnat and due next month and has missed to much she might not get to finish and will have to wait for next May. We're not sure whats going to happen yet. But anyway my point is...... it doesnt matter what profession your in you have the same things going on that you talk about. my wife only want to treat LA and is fully aware of the thingies you mentioned but like she said "its part of the job". if somebody stiffs you for the money next time the call tell them they got to pay the old bill in full and the new one in advance. so people complain, i think its our nature we complain about everything so why would'nt we complain about a vet bill. a few years ago i had 3 calves blacklegged, the vet charged me $225 including a $50 farmcall. i had the calves pinned, even though my headgate would'nt hold them i myself held them. all the vet done was SQ the calves, he was at my place 15 minutes tops and that includes me writing the check. he had a 10 minute drive from his place to my farm do the math. oh i complained but i paid him told him i appreciated it and used him up untell he quit LA practise. my wife is a RN and i tell you its a ruff job as well. pleople complain all the time about this, that, and most add up to nothing but thats the job. i work at a grain elavator i hear all the time "why is it taking so long to get unloaded" or "yall's prices are to low" but that the job i'm not going to quit unloading trucks just because the drivers only see their part of it. the would be a better world if we all put our self in other peoples shoes but we dont we got to make the best of it. Vicky i really do appreciate what you do........

 

[fourwinds]

I sure can't blame the vets for the time and money issue but it difficult for large animal owners. No excuse for the vet refusing however...if they are part of a multi clinic service then they should service clients of other clinics same as their own on their days to cover.

In my area I have a vet who will do a farm call when it fits his schedule and only charges $20. I have used him for simple horse stuff and found him competent. Really more of a cow guy.
Other vet charges $75 for a farm call and the other one charges $55. To a certain extent it isn't worth my time, fuel and risk of transport to haul a horse/ cow to the vet for the $55. Esp considering what illness the animal might be exposed to while at the clinic. To get to that vet service I have to haul over 30 miles each way....
All of the large animal vets in my area are getting up in years...very concerned about what will happen when they retire.
Michelle

 

[TnWI]

The neighbor called me over last Saturday evening to look at a sick calf of hers. I diagnosed it as blackleg and gave it a shot of antibiotics (knowing that it's chances were slim to none). She had called her vet and got the answering service. All of the vets in our area use the same answering service. Each vet takes turn being on call. Anyway, the vet on call wasn't her vet. This vet refused to come out because he hadn't seen this calf before. What kind of crap is this? How could the vet on call have expected the have seen this animal before?

The north Texas region has lot's of cattle but the vets want to stay in their offices and work on dogs and cats. One, dog and cat owners tend to pay not matter what the price and two, it's safer and cleaner work........

What's a cattleman to do? I doctor all of mine that I can and take the rest to Durant OK, 20 miles from my house... This vet is located next to the stockyards and doesn't mind working cattle.

Do any of you have this problem?

BTW, the calf died that night. I got the neighbor to take it to Durant to confirm my diagnosis. It was blackleg...... Believe it or not, the vet there was open on Sunday morning.

Heck, I just may have to move to Oklahoma......

I asked my vet this morning when he was out visiting one of my heifers (and this is a Sunday) and he said "insurance and liability -- same reason we no longer treat horses" .... times are a changin folks, sad to say....

 

[Alan]

Vicky please understand i'm not picking and i fully appreciate vets. my wife is in school right now. she was suppose to finish this May but due to her being pregnat and due next month and has missed to much she might not get to finish and will have to wait for next May. We're not sure whats going to happen yet. But anyway my point is...... it doesnt matter what profession your in you have the same things going on that you talk about. my wife only want to treat LA and is fully aware of the thingies you mentioned but like she said "its part of the job". if somebody stiffs you for the money next time the call tell them they got to pay the old bill in full and the new one in advance. so people complain, i think its our nature we complain about everything so why would'nt we complain about a vet bill. a few years ago i had 3 calves blacklegged, the vet charged me $225 including a $50 farmcall. i had the calves pinned, even though my headgate would'nt hold them i myself held them. all the vet done was SQ the calves, he was at my place 15 minutes tops and that includes me writing the check. he had a 10 minute drive from his place to my farm do the math. oh i complained but i paid him told him i appreciated it and used him up untell he quit LA practise. my wife is a RN and i tell you its a ruff job as well. pleople complain all the time about this, that, and most add up to nothing but thats the job. i work at a grain elavator i hear all the time "why is it taking so long to get unloaded" or "yall's prices are to low" but that the job i'm not going to quit unloading trucks just because the drivers only see their part of it. the would be a better world if we all put our self in other peoples shoes but we dont we got to make the best of it. Vicky i really do appreciate what you do........

Spoken like some one who hasn't dealt with the other end of the Vet business.

I did the math, are you saying the Vet charged you 58.33 per head for shots and probably an exam? Too much for a 2 dollar vacc.

Alan

 

[Alan]

I sure can't blame the vets for the time and money issue but it difficult for large animal owners. No excuse for the vet refusing however...if they are part of a multi clinic service then they should service clients of other clinics same as their own on their days to cover.

In my area I have a vet who will do a farm call when it fits his schedule and only charges $20. I have used him for simple horse stuff and found him competent. Really more of a cow guy.
Other vet charges $75 for a farm call and the other one charges $55. To a certain extent it isn't worth my time, fuel and risk of transport to haul a horse/ cow to the vet for the $55. Esp considering what illness the animal might be exposed to while at the clinic. To get to that vet service I have to haul over 30 miles each way....
All of the large animal vets in my area are getting up in years...very concerned about what will happen when they retire.
Michelle

Sure there is an excuse for not seeing a client you have never seen, we can thank all the dead beats out there for that. A good Vet will get a good bunch of clients and refuse the new ones. Have you tried to find a new doctor who isn't with a HMO? Same thing.

Alan[/b]

 

[TheLazyM]

spoken like some one who hasn't dealt with the other end of the Vet business.

I did the math, are you saying the Vet charged you 58.33 per head for shots and probably an exam? Too much for a 2 dollar vacc.

Alan

Nope i have'nt dealt on the vets point of view. but my wife has. 3 times a week for the last year and a half she works for a vet "for free" {theres a name for this i just cant spell it}. and she has put up with some crap and when i say somethiing about it she just tells me its part of the job.
It was 58.33 a head for a shot and no exam. we stepped in the pin i grapped the calve he shot it same on the next 2. you darn right i thought it was too much, but i paid it.
you know still most people change their own oil and maintance on there trucks/cars. still fix what they can. mechanics complain about that also. i just let them complain cause nobody is working on my truck if i can fix it myself.
i was'nt attacking Vicky, and sure was'nt saying she was wrong, my point is them same things are spread across the board. its life and we have to do the best we can. if i wanted to attack Vicky i would have said did she expect for the cows to wait for her to have her life before they got sick? but no i know all to well how it is to work 100+ hours a day 7 days a week. when we have 21 barges a week to load/unload theres not much rest going on or durning the corn harvest its full blast, every farmer " can i brang 1 more load?" "i got a truck about 5 miles a way can you unload it?" i'll be unloading trucks untell 3:00 in the morning. i like my job and thats why i'll be in the suck again this harvest and barge season.

 

[Alan]

spoken like some one who hasn't dealt with the other end of the Vet business.

I did the math, are you saying the Vet charged you 58.33 per head for shots and probably an exam? Too much for a 2 dollar vacc.

Alan

Nope i have'nt dealt on the vets point of view. but my wife has. 3 times a week for the last year and a half she works for a vet "for free" {theres a name for this i just cant spell it}. and she has put up with some crap and when i say somethiing about it she just tells me its part of the job.
It was 58.33 a head for a shot and no exam. we stepped in the pin i grapped the calve he shot it same on the next 2. you darn right i thought it was too much, but i paid it.
you know still most people change their own oil and maintance on there trucks/cars. still fix what they can. mechanics complain about that also. i just let them complain cause nobody is working on my truck if i can fix it myself.
i was'nt attacking Vicky, and sure was'nt saying she was wrong, my point is them same things are spread across the board. its life and we have to do the best we can. if i wanted to attack Vicky i would have said did she expect for the cows to wait for her to have her life before they got sick? but no i know all to well how it is to work 100+ hours a day 7 days a week. when we have 21 barges a week to load/unload theres not much rest going on or durning the corn harvest its full blast, every farmer " can i brang 1 more load?" "i got a truck about 5 miles a way can you unload it?" i'll be unloading trucks untell 3:00 in the morning. i like my job and thats why i'll be in the suck again this harvest and barge season.

Fair enough LazyM, didn't think you were attacking anybody. Sounds like you work hard for your money, all I'm saying is if you had the chance to make more money and do it much easier, wouldn't you... I would.

I respect your work ethics.
Alan