Frankie":11n58p1c said:
you guys have an angus day
I assume this is Ollie?
"please tell me where the facts are for the cunsumer to know that these animals come from what appears to be angus influenced cattle. you dont even find it in small print under that cute little picture. where are the specs for the consumer?"
The facts are available on the CAB website. Any consumer interested can find out what goes into CAB. If a supermarket near you sells CAB, ask them. Are you suggesting it be put on every package of beef? Not likely.
" and yes FRANKIE I FOUND THE WORDS APPEARS TO BE INFLUENCED BY ANGUS ON CAB-S OWN WEB SITE. WHY WONT YOU ADMIT THIS RATHER THAN SAYING WHAT OTHER BREED INFUENCES THE BLACK HIDE. "
I'm happy to "admit" all CAB cattle are not 100% Angus. Other than that, I don't understand what you're looking for here. I believe that in the US, 99% of the black cattle killed for meat are Angus influenced. You show me that's not true.
"one might say call an ace an ace and a spade a spade. the truth is the people that call thesE animals in the cab program angus make nothing short of an educated guess."
Of course it's an educated guess. That's one of the smartest things the Angus Assn did when they set up CAB. There was no DNA testing at that time. The packers would never have bought into a program that slowed down their lines. Fast visual appraisal was the key for getting this thing started.
" and by the way dont be so selective with your answers. what about those little bitty rib eyes from the herford angus cross at marc testing at oklahoma state. and then their was the waste angus herford cross scorded in the lower end for retail cuts and waste out of 27 breeds tested."
Selective? Like you ignore my response to this question: "if you were to poll the american consumer they are ignorant as to the facts." Answer my response: How do you know that; did you poll consumers?
"What about thise little rib eyes?"
I'd never say every Angus was good. But the packers aren't interested in 16 in ribeyes. They want a 12-13 inch eye. There are lots of Angus bulls that scan bigger eyes. Since when did MARC use OK State for their testing? Post a link to that article. As for the Hereford/Angus cross, I'll just have to blame it on the Hereford influence!
"frankie while we are discussing this tell me what you know about the usdas testing that shows that temperment deals with the quality of the cut and feed plays a big role in taste and that marbling attributes a mere 5 to 10 % to a good steak."
So what? Consumers prefer marbled beef. Choice beef is four times less likely to be tough than Select beef. Until we come up with a reliable way to identify tender beef, I'll continue to raise bulls that have the potential to sire high marbling calves. Their beef is more likely to be tender and consumers prefer the marbling.
" they list four factors for a good cut of beef heridity stress feed and aging the beef after processing. these facts are quoted by animal physiologist mohammad koohmarie at the usda lab at clay city nebraska. "
Notice that the first item listed is heredity (or as you spell it heridity). The very first item!! The other items are management. But if the genetic potential is not there for marbling, you can manage the heck out of a steer and still get a Standard cut of meat. The fellow who used to run the OK Steer Feed out used to say, "You can mismanage a good steer down to Select/Standard. But you can't manage a Select steer up to Choice." Genetic, genetics, genetics. A producer can use EPDs to select bulls that will improve his calf crop, whether it's marbling, YG, size….
"please tell me where your statistics are that show that an angus bull brings 400 dollars more. post some university studies or usda studies that show how angus scored against the other breeds."
I think I said "about $400." The Angus Association has been tracking the "Angus premium" for several years. There are several articles in Angus Journals and the Angus Beef Bulletin. They're both on line if you want to go out and research them. The premium for back hided calves at sale barns across the US is a fact. Anyone on this board can tell you that. They take that premium and trace it back to Angus bulls to come up with the $400 premium for Angus bulls over other breeds. There are bull test station sales online that will reflect Angus bull premiums over other breeds. I have several test stations bookmarked, though not necessarily their sales info. If you want, I'll copy a list of those stations.
"and dealing with being selectve you forgot to encourage john to contact 20 20 or dateline or 60 minutes if he is so un happy."
You're right I did. Go for it, John. I'm waiting for his response about whether he runs black cattle or not.
"and previously it had been pointed out that on cabs own web site a mere 1.9 million animals out of 9 million made the grade at the 32 licensed feedlots."
I think that's pretty good, considering how many Limis, Simis, Gelbvieh, Maines, can qualify visually for CAB, but are less likely to meet the carcass specifications.
"if the genetics are so good would you not think the odds should be better."
Not necessarily. You breed a cow with no marbling to a high marbling bull, the calf may take after mom's marbling, not the sire's. It takes more than one generation to make serious changes in beef quality.
" quoting the clay city nebraska studies above made me wonder and conclude if these 9 million cattle were really influenced by angus then the primary thing that the angus do is ad color to the hide because the heridity is only giving one a less than 20 % chance of grading for the cab program. "
See above. Angus aren't magic; I've never suggested they were. There are some sorry Angus out there. I've hauled a few of them to the sale barn over the years. Other breeds have jumped on the black color to get those Angus premiums.
"you say that cab has probably been sued. thats like saying becuse its 51 % black its angus."
Are you in the US? If so you need to go to the local sale barn and spend some time. Any animal that runs through the sale barn is likely to be called "Angus."
" a black welsh or black holstein crossed with beef will sometimes throw black. YOU ARE MAKING AN ANGUS EDUCATED GUESS THAT THEY HAVE PROBABLY BEEN SUED"
Give me a break! Black Welch and Black Holstein are not what turned the cowherds in the US black. LOL! I doubt there are 1,000 Black Welch and Black Holstein bulls in the US. I'd be glad to be proven wrong. In recent years the Angus Association has paid CattleFax to survey producers. Over half of the beef producers in the US are using Angus bulls.
"HERE ARE THE FACTS
ACCORDING TO CABS OWN WORDS YOU MIGHT BE EATING ANGUS INFLUENCED BEEF THIS IS WHAT EARKS ONE THAT THEY DO NOT TELL THE CONSUMER THIS MIGHT BE ANGUS."
Why should they tell them it "might" be Angus? In the US, if it's black it's Angus influenced, or it might be straightbred Angus. So if they should tell them it's "Angus influenced" that might not be true.
"YOU ACCUSED JOHN OF BEING A HPOCRITE BECAUSE HE CHOOSES TO NOT COMMENT ON THE OTHER FRAUDS THAT MIGHT BE GOING ON FROM WHAT I SUMMIZE JOHN IS NOT RAISING AUTOMOBILES BUT BEEF. I CONCLUDE FROM READING HIS POSTS HE WANTS INTEGRITY IN THE BEEF INDUSTRY. BECAUSE WHEN HE RAISES BEEF NO MATTER HOW MANY HE RAISES HE HAS A RIGHT TO DEMAND INTEGRITY. "
John has a right to demand integrity from anyone he deals with, but he has no right set industry standards for "integrity." CAB is a USDA approved branded beef program. It's been around for 25 years. I think it's responsible for bringing some consumers back to eating beef. I'm still waiting for John to tell us if he has black cattle.
"I HAVE READ NUMEROUS POSTS AND SEE WHERE MANY HAVE ASKED FOR STUDIES BY UNIVERSITIES OR USDA TESTING HAVE BEEEN ASKED FOR WITH ANGUS STATISTICS AGAINST OTHER BREEDS HAVE BEEN REQUESTED. "
What sort of Angus statistics are you looking for? The Angus Association isn't into competition for competition's sake. As a producer, I'm interested in producing bulls that will make money for my customers. The fact that a pen of breed "X" gained better or graded better or yielded better than a pen Angus calf is only interesting because it tells me that I need to use the best genetics available to me. But there are lots of statistics available. Tell me specifically what you want and I'll see if I can find it for you.
"WHATS IRONIC IS THERE HAVE BEEN NO POSTS BACK WITH THIS INFORMATION. ALL YOU SEE IS WHEN SOMEONE ASKS WHAT TO CROSS WITH IS USE ANGUS USE ANGUS. WELL WHERE ARE THE STATISTICS TO BACK UP THIS REASONING OF USE ANGUS USE ANGUS. HOW ABOUT SOME STATISTICS OR FACTS"
Get specific. What "facts" do you want?
"WE ARE WAITING for THE ANGUS CHEERLEADERS FRANKIE OR DUN OR LA FOR ANGUS TO LIST SOME FACTS. "
Actually, Dun raises RED ANGUS. BTW, Dun, congratulations on becoming the first Guru. You deserve it.
"PLEASE ALSO TELL US WHERE THE CONSUMER CAN READ THE FINE PRINT appears to be of angus influence."
Apparently they can read it on the CAB page.
" you guys have an angus day"
And believe me, Angus days are good days.[/quote]
frankie no this aint ollie
please start with any information you can post. and please i dont want any thing compiled by the angus association. as i want info from tests at universities or usda tests
on your search query type in breeds comparisson germplasm evaluation at marc and you will find the oklahoma tests i refer to.
on this test of 27 breeds the angus gross had the highest fat trim of 21% of the carcass talk about waist it costs nearly twice as much to put a pound of fat on an animal as a pound of meat. they had a 200 day weight of 432 lbs the jersies had a 408 with the highest number of choice and the angus cross rib area was a mere 10.85 square inches.
now back to the info i want you to sell me on the angus breed i want facts not he said she said or my neighbor told me this or dad had this kind of experience. and for the record how many head of cattle do you have this angus experience with of your own.
facts from independent tests or studies
thanks
