There are some true Angus left!

[MikeC]

Aberdeen-Angus cattle
A Rare Breed of Scottish Origin
Champion Scottish-type Aberdeen-Angus bull from the early 20th century.

For almost a hundred years, the name Aberdeen-Angus was familiar to most New Zealanders as one of our two premier beef cattle breeds.

Historically, the Aberdeen-Angus was developed in the Scottish counties of Aberdeen and Angus in the northeast of Scotland during the early nineteenth century. A black polled breed, it was a much modified descendant of the original black Celtic cattle of the area, with an infusion of blood from animals introduced by Norse invaders. Its original purpose was to supply the English beef markets, but it quickly spread throughout the world, arriving in New Zealand in 1863. These first arrivals here were a bull and three cows imported by the Australian and New Zealand Land Company to Southland. Following more importations, the Company established New Zealand's first Aberdeen-Angus stud at Totara in North Otago in the 1880s.

These original animals were a small, short and stout breed, not dissimilar to those we know today as the » Australian Lowline and this type was retained in New Zealand until the 1950s.

However, with the swing towards a demand for fat-free meat from beasts with leaner carcasses, the Aberdeen-Angus in New Zealand underwent a radical change in type from the 1960s.

New Zealand animals were crossed throughout the country with Angus imported from America (larger animals which carried the blood of the European Chianina – an even larger breed). The result was the disappearance of the original Scottish type Aberdeen-Angus and the development of a taller, rangier breed simply called Angus – or New Zealand Angus.

There is only one herd left now in New Zealand which claims to be of pure Scottish blood – this is the Pinebank herd in Masterton, part of Waigroup Angus.

The Pinebank herd was closed in 1967 and contains no American blood. This historical herd was started in 1919 with animals that could be traced back to the Australian and New Zealand Land Company's original imports. Its remaining animals are an important relic population representative of our farming history.
The Rare Breeds Conservation Society of New Zealand

 

[southpaw]

There is semen available from sustainablegenetics.com on three sires from the pinebank herd.

 

[MikeC]

There is semen available from sustainablegenetics.com on three sires from the pinebank herd.

Those bulls look a lot different than the bulls here now. They are low with lots of gut.

I remember those type bulls in the 1950's here before the Chi and Holstein got added in. Thanks

 

[WORANCH]

There is semen available from sustainablegenetics.com on three sires from the pinebank herd.

Those bulls look a lot different than the bulls here now. They are low with lots of gut.

I remember those type bulls in the 1950's here before the Chi and Holstein got added in. Thanks

:shock: :shock:

This is going to be good

 

[mtnman]

I think it's BS that folks think that Angus have Chi or Holstein in them. The article is totally without a base to stand on, other than some hilbilly's opinion.

And this is coming from the guy that bangs heads with the Angus breeders, too, but I don't buy it.

Hogwash!

mtnman

 

[MikeC]

I think it's BS that folks think that Angus have Chi or Holstein in them. The article is totally without a base to stand on, other than some hilbilly's opinion.

And this is coming from the guy that bangs heads with the Angus breeders, too, but I don't buy it.

Hogwash!

mtnman

Well then YOU might explain why Angus dropped the name "Aberdeen" some years ago.

Since you know so much about it!

A New Zealand Hillbilly! ;-)

 

[Brandonm2]

I think it's BS that folks think that Angus have Chi or Holstein in them. The article is totally without a base to stand on, other than some hilbilly's opinion.

And this is coming from the guy that bangs heads with the Angus breeders, too, but I don't buy it.

Hogwash!

mtnman

I have been told that story about the type changing cattle of the late 60s and 70s in BOTH the Angus AND Hereford breeds since I was a boy. IT would be real easy to check it out. Bulls like Ankonian Dynamo, Enforcer 107H, PS Powerplay, 103T, Braxton Giant, etc still have semen out there (commercially available) and I am sure that Chianina people have semen from many of the popular sires of their day (and the Stein people have semen on virtually everything). Oldtimers like Jim Reed, Doug Hoff, or Doc Harris probably remember which bulls were most controversial back in the day (assuming they would cooperate) so you wouldn't have to do a real massive effort to find the bulls most of interest.

And we have the mini-Herefords, Lowline Angus, "classic" Herefords, these New Zealand Angus, plus older stored semen that we KNOW don't have any Chianina in them. I am NOT a geneticist; but most of the better universities have people who are quite capable of doing the DNA analysis from the surviving DNA samples to see if any of those animals that shouldn't be are related or not.

This is one of those commonly repeated tales (and I have heard it from people with exceptional credentials from that era) we COULD prove or disprove quite easily. Of course I have complete confidence that the people in Miles City did not "cheat" (they have no money on the line) and IF Miles City could do it why are we doubting the abilities of the top purebreeders of their day who had deep pockets to find the curve benders? The real question in this is....do we really want to know??

 

[Jake]

all through the era of short potbellied angus there was the Emulation herd in Oklahoma that had the original set of larger framed, more muscled angus cattle. If you look through pedigrees today they are in most everything and had a big deal in the sizing up of the angus breed. Now I won't say there aren't angus out there with holstein or Chi in them but not all of them do.

 

[Scotty]

Well then YOU might explain why Angus dropped the name "Aberdeen" some years ago.

Maybe because they are not in the county of Aberdeen. Meybe thats why it is called THE AMERICAN ANGUS ASSOCIATION.


Scotty

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Well then YOU might explain why Angus dropped the name "Aberdeen" some years ago.

Maybe because they are not in the county of Aberdeen. Meybe thats why it is called THE AMERICAN ANGUS ASSOCIATION.


Scotty

There is no real reason why we should continue to kick a dead horse! Contact the American Angus Association and ask THEM why and when they decided to drop "Aberdeen" from the name. I can assure you that it was NOT because Holstein blood became infused in the Gene pool!

In regard to the bulls (or "Lines" of Aberdeen-Angus) which were controversial in the 1940's and 1950's- I can tell you that the "Sunbeam" Breeders, came "- - -THIS CLOSE - - " to completely destroying the breed! Short, squat, Pony-type critters with almost ALL negative EPD's and legs that would hardly hold them upright! Prince Sunbeam 29th, Master Prince of Sunbeam, Prince This, Prince That, Prince - Prince - Prince -- - - I got nauseated just looking at those poor animals and even MORE nauseated looking at the stupid breeders. (DON'T GET ME STARTED!)

J. Garrett Tolan, Penny & James, Henry Gardiner, Ankony, along with the Leachman's, Hoff, Penn State, Prof. Harlan Ritchie, and some of the Bardoliermere breeders were instrumental in holding the line and then Emulous breeding dragged the pony's into the back pasture and poked their heads in the swamp and the Association started getting some sense and the snowball started rolling! I know that I have overlooked some very influential breeders in the Angus business, but I think you get the idea. If it hadn't have been for the foresight and determination of those great people, The Beef BUSINESS would be completely different today.

DOC HARRIS

 

[J. T.]

Heck, I remember a certain Auburn University professor telling us in class that Holstein was added to the Angus gene pool to add frame and it was evident because Angus cows had developed long chisled heads like a dairy cow. Also, we were told that Herefords had a little help from the Simmentals and that's where the increase in eye pigmentation came from. Not saying he was correct, but that's what the man said.

 

[dun]

Heck, I remember a certain Auburn University professor telling us in class that Holstein was added to the Angus gene pool to add frame and it was evident because Angus cows had developed long chisled heads like a dairy cow. Also, we were told that Herefords had a little help from the Simmentals and that's where the increase in eye pigmentation came from. Not saying he was correct, but that's what the man said.

We all recall what is said about opinions, and that's what the prof was stating, his opinions.

dun

 

[Brandonm2]

He had grey curly hair and was long tenured too,... right???
I am not naming names; but I think we have been talking to some of the same people. I have also owned a couple of those registered Angus cows with Holstein-ish heads.

 

[JHH]

I dont know much about the angus but someone said something about simmental blood in some herefords. I have heard that to ( TEX PRIMETIME) is that right or does anybody know. Just thought I would ask? JHH

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Heck, I remember a certain Auburn University professor telling us in class that Holstein was added to the Angus gene pool to add frame and it was evident because Angus cows had developed long chisled heads like a dairy cow. Also, we were told that Herefords had a little help from the Simmentals and that's where the increase in eye pigmentation came from. Not saying he was correct, but that's what the man said.

J. T. - I didn't say that Holstein was not infused with Angus. I said that the AAA didn't eliminate "Aberdeen" from the name for that reason!

DOC HARRIS

 

[ollie']

I really doubt if there is a known breed that is a genetically pure strain. I doubt Noah took more than one breed on the Ark. That was only about 4000 years ago. More recently every time the phenotype of cattle quickly change very much, there is a good possibility some people will cheat and use a cross of a breed that is more similiar to the desired phenotype. So what? I am not advocating dishonestly ,nor would I do it but I don't personally think if Herefords had a shot of simental or gurnsey or red holstien stuck in them in the late 60's you can credit all the size difference you see today on that action. Genetic selection is a powerful tool. Consistant selection for desirable traits will change a herd of cows in one lifetime to what ever you want them to be. You can take a set of holstien cows and without adding any angus blood to them make them all angus in type within a lifetime or vice versa. If you know what you are breeding for and are consistant in your efforts in 40 years or so you can make them into anything. If you are close to your goals maybe you can do it in 3 or 4 generations of cattle.My point is after all that rambling is cattle are big because they are bred to be big or little because they are bred to be little or black because they are bred to be black or thick, heavy milking, etc., etc. Know what your breeding goals are and change your cattle accordingly. Thinking about it some lines of simental cattle have had the spots bred off of them in 30 or 40 years.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

I really doubt if there is a known breed that is a genetically pure strain. I doubt Noah took more than one breed on the Ark. That was only about 4000 years ago. More recently every time the phenotype of cattle quickly change very much, there is a good possibility some people will cheat and use a cross of a breed that is more similiar to the desired phenotype. So what? I am not advocating dishonestly ,nor would I do it but I don't personally think if Herefords had a shot of simental or gurnsey or red holstien stuck in them in the late 60's you can credit all the size difference you see today on that action. Genetic selection is a powerful tool. Consistant selection for desirable traits will change a herd of cows in one lifetime to what ever you want them to be. You can take a set of holstien cows and without adding any angus blood to them make them all angus in type within a lifetime or vice versa. If you know what you are breeding for and are consistant in your efforts in 40 years or so you can make them into anything. If you are close to your goals maybe you can do it in 3 or 4 generations of cattle.My point is after all that rambling is cattle are big because they are bred to be big or little because they are bred to be little or black because they are bred to be black or thick, heavy milking, etc., etc. Know what your breeding goals are and change your cattle accordingly. Thinking about it some lines of simental cattle have had the spots bred off of them in 30 or 40 years.

ollie' - YOU ARE CORRECT! Stay tuned. I'll be back later.

DOC HARRIS

I'm back - 8 hours later!

You are right about cattle (or any other species) breeding as a result of " - - genetic selection" being a "powerful tool", - and EPD's are the 'nuts and bolts" of that genetic tool! How those nuts and bolts are put together and 'torqued' determines how the 'machine', if you will, ultimately functions and performs. Selecting breeding stock by phenotype ONLY will possibly take 25 -40 years, - and by incorporating EPD's it can be accomplished in 6 generations or less. As "they" say - do the math! Phenotype IS the embodiment of EPD's - good or bad, correctly applied or mis-used - -THERE they are, in ALL their glory, standing naked to the world!

DOC HARRIS

 

[ga. prime]

Finally, the truth. Great post, ollie. A sober, coherent, realistic picture of the development of cattle breeds. I doubt if the conspiracy radicals will be swayed though.

 

[Campground Cattle]

I really doubt if there is a known breed that is a genetically pure strain. I doubt Noah took more than one breed on the Ark. That was only about 4000 years ago. More recently every time the phenotype of cattle quickly change very much, there is a good possibility some people will cheat and use a cross of a breed that is more similiar to the desired phenotype. So what? I am not advocating dishonestly ,nor would I do it but I don't personally think if Herefords had a shot of simental or gurnsey or red holstien stuck in them in the late 60's you can credit all the size difference you see today on that action. Genetic selection is a powerful tool. Consistant selection for desirable traits will change a herd of cows in one lifetime to what ever you want them to be. You can take a set of holstien cows and without adding any angus blood to them make them all angus in type within a lifetime or vice versa. If you know what you are breeding for and are consistant in your efforts in 40 years or so you can make them into anything. If you are close to your goals maybe you can do it in 3 or 4 generations of cattle.My point is after all that rambling is cattle are big because they are bred to be big or little because they are bred to be little or black because they are bred to be black or thick, heavy milking, etc., etc. Know what your breeding goals are and change your cattle accordingly. Thinking about it some lines of simental cattle have had the spots bred off of them in 30 or 40 years.

DEMAND CHANGES HEREFORD TYPE
Following World War II and well into the 1950's, the compact, fat, small type cattle continued to be favored in the show ring, but quietly and almost unnoticed, there was a change taking place in the meat-packing industry and in the basic American consumer's diet which reflected on the demand and price of the favored kind up to that time. The commercial market for fat or beef tallow declined, plus the fact that consumers were unwilling to buy the excess fat on cuts from "over done" carcasses. The result was that beef packers paid less for the overfat cattle and suddenly there was a different type of animal preferred by the industry -- a trimmer, leaner, less fat and more red meat kind. The once preferred wide-backed, overfat and wastey cattle were heavily docked in the market.
This change in market preference was first expressed in Hereford circles at the National Hereford Conference in Denver in 1963, voiced more loudly in 1967 at a conference in Kansas City, and in the now famous 1969 conference in Wisconsin this change was very conclusively demonstrated. Economics in cost of production required faster daily gain at less cost conversion of feed to muscle instead of fat, and far less loss in offal waste in the desired market kind. These requirements translated to more size and a different style of conformation which, in turn, presented the breeder with a tremendous challenge in modernizing the breed and turning it around to a new kind of Hereford endowed with all the basic economical traits to encompass total performance -- no desired trait achieved at the expense of another.

Accomplishing, their objective in a remarkably short time is a great tribute to the dedication of Hereford breeders, the broad genetic base of the breed, and the ability of breeders to utilize modern technology along with the practical application of the breeder's art.

The 1960's saw the beginning of acceptance of the performance era in Herefordom. Breeders began giving concentrated attention toward applying new-found tools such as performance testing, artificial insemination, objective measures, embryo transfers, generation turnover, and sire evaluation to effect more and more rapid genetic change in the past 25 years than perhaps had been accomplished previously since Benjamin Tomkins undertook his systematic efforts to make better beef cattle from his native Herefords.

In 1963, the American Hereford Association embarked on an experimental program to test sires under practical feedlot conditions through their progeny in feedlot performance and carcass yield. That program was replaced by the current National Reference Sire program to identify superior sires. This program led the way for all breeds in sire testing.

The beginning of the American Hereford Association's record keeping activity was expanded to include performance records and initiation of the present Total Performance Records (TPR) service in 1964. Having been developed over some two decades, often amended to utilize new technology and to provide maximum service to breeders, the TPR program that has evolved has proven to be a great service to individual breeders and the breed in general. Presently, there are some two million records of performance on file in the AHA computer, stored for use to assist in selecting for improvements in future cattle generations.

The late 1960's found breeders faced with overpowering evidence that the breed had too many cattle that simply did not measure up in the modern measures of performance and with great competition from European "exotic" breeds, Hereford followers sought out breeders and bloodlines noted for cattle of substantial size and performance.

It was fortunate for the breed that there was an ample and broad genetic base from which to select when the demand came for larger framed cattle. Breeders found the growth traits fairly easy to select for. Both 205-day and yearling weights were accurate measures of growth, fairly easy to obtain, and they were highly heritable.

Within herd selection was a long process when considering the rule of thumb of cow generation being some seven years. Many breeders began looking for short cuts. They searched the country for sires with more frame and size, requesting and analyzing weaning and yearling weights. Leaders in beef cattle education and research stressed growth as a major criteria of performance, often ignoring or de-emphasizing the most important economical trait of beef cattle production, fertility.

Breeders often selected for frame score and mature weight, and paid little heed to fertility, structural soundness, feet and legs. The "yellow and mellow" coloring, a tic of white in the back or extra white on the legs and underline became less of a selection criteria. "If big enough, markings and color became less important."

Where and in what bloodlines could these cattle be found to increase the frame and weight of Herefords? Voices of the speakers at the Madison, Wisconsin, conference in June, 1969, had barely quieted when breeders started looking. The frame 5 steers at the conference came from the Northwest. That's where many breeders headed and they found some bigger-than average framed bulls there. Many were of Evan Mischief, Mark Donald and Real Prince Domino bloodlines. Some breeders selected bigger framed cattle in Canada, many of which traced to an American-bred Prince Domino son, Real Prince Domino 109. Also about this time, breeders found the Line One cattle developed by the U.S. Range and Research Station at Miles City, Montana.

It was at the Miles City station in 1934 that a selection program commenced and the development of inbreeding several different lines with selection emphasis on yearling weights. Of all the different lines developed at Miles City, the most prominent to date has been the Line Ones.

The foundation cows for the Line Ones traced back to stock purchased in 1926 from George M. Miles. The bulls used in the development of the line were half-brothers, Advance Domino 20 and Advance Domino 54, purchased in Colorado. These two foundation sires were strong in Prince Domino blood.

Although the Line One cattle were developed at the Miles City station and they have remained a prime source of seedstock, a number of other breeders drew heavily on Line One sires starting in the 1940's, and these breeders became suppliers of the Line One seedstock in the early 1970's.

The complete and universal acceptance of utilizing performance records was a slow process and, even today, does not have universal appeal. Different breeders place emphasis on different aspects.

Because of such difference in opinions in the past, the present, and likely in the future, Hereford cattle will command the premier spot in the beef cattle industry for years to come.

 

[CopeMan]

I really doubt if there is a known breed that is a genetically pure strain. I doubt Noah took more than one breed on the Ark. That was only about 4000 years ago. More recently every time the phenotype of cattle quickly change very much, there is a good possibility some people will cheat and use a cross of a breed that is more similiar to the desired phenotype. So what? I am not advocating dishonestly ,nor would I do it but I don't personally think if Herefords had a shot of simental or gurnsey or red holstien stuck in them in the late 60's you can credit all the size difference you see today on that action. Genetic selection is a powerful tool. Consistant selection for desirable traits will change a herd of cows in one lifetime to what ever you want them to be. You can take a set of holstien cows and without adding any angus blood to them make them all angus in type within a lifetime or vice versa. If you know what you are breeding for and are consistant in your efforts in 40 years or so you can make them into anything. If you are close to your goals maybe you can do it in 3 or 4 generations of cattle.My point is after all that rambling is cattle are big because they are bred to be big or little because they are bred to be little or black because they are bred to be black or thick, heavy milking, etc., etc. Know what your breeding goals are and change your cattle accordingly. Thinking about it some lines of simental cattle have had the spots bred off of them in 30 or 40 years.

Good post Ollie'. When you think about it, no one animal is pure. For example Quarter Horses are just crosses of Thoroughbreds and Military Mounts and/or Mustangs. How about a Cur dog? They are a cross of bulldogs and hounds, and today they are registered just as any other animal can be. If you want a blue cur breed it to a Bluetick Coonhound and youve got a blue cur. The way I see it is if Americans can make breeds today ex.(Brangus,Braford,beefmaster, etc.) Dont you think Scots, Anglo-Saxons, Celts, Norsemen, and others did back then?