Red Bull Breeder
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Here you go Linbul. Global Genetic Syndicate, Joel Symens manger, Kasnodar, Russia. [email protected] Hope they can help you. They are good folks.
Suitable breed for mountain farm?
- Thread starter linbul
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Intersting situation presented here.
I'm not sure how much valuable information on breeds we can actually provide and most of the breeds we have came from europe buthave been "amercanized" and now there are differences, some moreso than others.
Rather than specific breeds (I think you would probably be okay with any of the breeds if you find the right cattle) I suggest you find cattle that have been conditioned to high or higher altitudes and have been handled by hand. Here we have cattle that are tended by horseback or atv's or rarely handled at all. If you could find some cattle that have been tended by foot I think they would be fairly docile. Find cattle that have natural calving ease and try to verify it if you can.
As far as breeds, angus have adapted to about every environment in the US. Same for Limousins (there are a good number of limi's in colorado). Herefords are also popular in the mountain states. Braunvieh is a Swiss breed that should be adaptible to altitude and have a good reputation for handling and maternal ability.
As for grass feeding, try checking The Stockman Grass Farmer publication. They will have information on breeds and fencing and grass feeding and finishing.
I'm not sure how much valuable information on breeds we can actually provide and most of the breeds we have came from europe buthave been "amercanized" and now there are differences, some moreso than others.
Rather than specific breeds (I think you would probably be okay with any of the breeds if you find the right cattle) I suggest you find cattle that have been conditioned to high or higher altitudes and have been handled by hand. Here we have cattle that are tended by horseback or atv's or rarely handled at all. If you could find some cattle that have been tended by foot I think they would be fairly docile. Find cattle that have natural calving ease and try to verify it if you can.
As far as breeds, angus have adapted to about every environment in the US. Same for Limousins (there are a good number of limi's in colorado). Herefords are also popular in the mountain states. Braunvieh is a Swiss breed that should be adaptible to altitude and have a good reputation for handling and maternal ability.
As for grass feeding, try checking The Stockman Grass Farmer publication. They will have information on breeds and fencing and grass feeding and finishing.
grand chaser09
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simmentals or Fleckvieh simmentals would do good at producing meat. i've grown them to win carcass contests down here. another good choice would be Chianina. they are bred to give the largest cuts of meat possible.
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linbul
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Busterz":1xlzbqwv said:
You said it so good!
I think one major issue is the number of the herd we are aiming. Our current experience is much different - the diary cattle is not "synchronized" in time and we are dealing with 3 smaller herds of calves/steers sorted by age. It seems it wont be same when we have more than 300 older cows.
And yes, horseback raiding is more like hobby sport for some city guys, than an experience in the cattlemen. If we turn to horseback for tending, I'm not sure what I should look for - cattle or personnel
Let me share some more information, someone could find it usefull. We were considering fullblood Limo as a base before. Yesterday I visited a Limousine farm of 80 cows (and increasing). They first tried "open range" grazing, but now they are settled on feedlot. There is what they told me:
When Limousine herd is less than 30-40 cattle, they are much more manageable. If you heard they are a little bit temperate, it's true, but they respect a man or dog in their way, electric fence or stronger fencing. But when they are in a larger number, guys described them as "avalange" :shock: . The whole herd suddenly runs away, compactly packed, trashes electrofence and continues for more than 10 miles. One more thing about Limousines - they don't know when to stop eating, they should be held back to paddock each afternoon. Just to mention the cattle was brought from breeding center in France, the issue could be caused by the adaptation...
Thanks to all of you sharing here!
Well Linbul that last post certainly set the hair on fire of every Limo breeder here. Not that that is a problem, just an observation.
About the cattle I have to agree with Dun. with your close proximity to Germany you would or should be able to get your hands on some real good Gelbvieh cows. If I were in your situation I would use Hereford( preferably polled) on the gelbvieh cows. Dispositions would be good, the hereford would help the marbling on the Gelbvieh, and the Gelbvieh would help the backfat on the Hereford. Plus I believe you would get better milk on the F-1 crosses than you would with hereford cows. If you have the forage the Gelbvieh cows should raise you some great calves from this cross.
You might also consider turning an angus and a Hereford bull in with around 25 Gelbvieh cows apiece and see which calves did the best. Before you commit either way. It might also be interesting to see which one settles the most cows. I'll keep that prediction to myself
About the cattle I have to agree with Dun. with your close proximity to Germany you would or should be able to get your hands on some real good Gelbvieh cows. If I were in your situation I would use Hereford( preferably polled) on the gelbvieh cows. Dispositions would be good, the hereford would help the marbling on the Gelbvieh, and the Gelbvieh would help the backfat on the Hereford. Plus I believe you would get better milk on the F-1 crosses than you would with hereford cows. If you have the forage the Gelbvieh cows should raise you some great calves from this cross.
You might also consider turning an angus and a Hereford bull in with around 25 Gelbvieh cows apiece and see which calves did the best. Before you commit either way. It might also be interesting to see which one settles the most cows. I'll keep that prediction to myself
In my experience also limo's are nuttier than others..
You should go to look cattle from Danmark. They have high quality cattle in all most every breed. Expecially hereford ;-) . They use a lot of embryo's there. The best angusherd you will find here in Finland. Near my place is a old angus breeder who has builded his herd for 40 years. It's all Canadien based herd. They have excellent cattle!!(my opinion)
Is there any Gelbvieh's around anymore? I've never heard....
You should go to look cattle from Danmark. They have high quality cattle in all most every breed. Expecially hereford ;-) . They use a lot of embryo's there. The best angusherd you will find here in Finland. Near my place is a old angus breeder who has builded his herd for 40 years. It's all Canadien based herd. They have excellent cattle!!(my opinion)
Is there any Gelbvieh's around anymore? I've never heard....
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linbul
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So do I :?P.A.L":1xsr4fme said:
Actually nowadays some state institutes in Germany are importing Gelbvieh from USA, because they are considered as endangered breed. Most people there are aiming for intensive and highly automated handling. Maybe that is the reason of booming Limousines these years.
@3waycross
Thanks for the suggestion. It sounds kinda exotic flipping to british bull on continental mothers, but if I find something like the Gelbvieh's are described, I wouldn't think twice.
Forgive my ignorance, but I always wondered what is called "F-1"
(google doesn't explain well, exept for racing). Is it dairy on beef cross?linbul":mfr8z011 said:So do I :?P.A.L":mfr8z011 said:
Actually nowadays some state institutes in Germany are importing Gelbvieh from USA, because they are considered as endangered breed. Most people there are aiming for intensive and highly automated handling. Maybe that is the reason of booming Limousines these years.
@3waycross
Thanks for the suggestion. It sounds kinda exotic flipping to british bull on continental mothers, but if I find something like the Gelbvieh's are described, I wouldn't think twice.
Forgive my ignorance, but I always wondered what is called "F-1"
The BritishxContinental is THE cross of choice over here. It gives maximum heterosis because like I suggested they compliment each other.
F-1 is simply the calves achieved from the FIRST cross of two totally different breeds. So the first generation out of that cross would be F-1.
By the way if you can't find a suitable "continental" breed for crossing with British, then you can use HerefordxAngus and achieve much the same thing. The resulting heifers wil be what we call black baldies and they are great mothers with longer productive lives because of the heterosis. You could then breed them back to almost any continental bull for maximum heterosis. Keep in mind that if you do this you need to be careful not to breed them to a bull that is going to kill them with 125 pound calves.
Sounds like you may have trouble getting the numbers you want of a single breed. You would probably want to focus on frame size and calving ease. What kinds of statistics or records do the keep in europe for things like that? Here we have e.p.d's and the birth weights are usually recorded.
You may have to have a mixed cow herd (like hereford and angus) and focus on getting low birthweight continental bulls with a moderate frame and good disposition. The F1 heifers should be good mother cows also. Its may be easier to find a few really good bulls than to put together a single breed cow herd.
Here some people are using a lot of composite bulls that are usually half british and half continental, that is supposed to pass on some consistency from both to a mixed cow herd.
If you are going to be small at first maybe you want to try to AI to some american or austrailian bulls and produce a few of your own to get you going and go from there. Or try some embryo tranfers in some of those dairy cattle they have around there. I'm only assuming you have access to the resources needed to do something like that.
You may have to have a mixed cow herd (like hereford and angus) and focus on getting low birthweight continental bulls with a moderate frame and good disposition. The F1 heifers should be good mother cows also. Its may be easier to find a few really good bulls than to put together a single breed cow herd.
Here some people are using a lot of composite bulls that are usually half british and half continental, that is supposed to pass on some consistency from both to a mixed cow herd.
If you are going to be small at first maybe you want to try to AI to some american or austrailian bulls and produce a few of your own to get you going and go from there. Or try some embryo tranfers in some of those dairy cattle they have around there. I'm only assuming you have access to the resources needed to do something like that.
