Stirring the pot on the LH/corriente topic

[Warren Allison]

The southeast produces a lot of chickens that don't eat grass, but eat lots of corn and soybean meal their entire life. Lots of that feed shipped in by rail from the corn belt. Northwestern states are mostly ranked lower than southern states in corn production, but seem to see better prices on calves. Just seems to me that there is more to the story on prices for the southeast calves than distance from corn belt.

You are right about chickens in the south, for sure in GA, anyhow. Poultry is now our number one agriculture product. Ga is not the Peach State...SC is. Nor is it the top peanut producer any longer, Lot of corn grown here..3rd largest row crop behind beans and cotton. The good bottom land will yield more bushels per acre than anywhere else. But...everything raised here goes into the poultry business. That's one reason there are no feed lots.. they'd have to import corn.

Iike I said, I watch sales all over the country several days a week. Mostly watching for cows and heifers for clients. And if you took some trailer weaned, non conditioned, not-steered, non vacced etc, calves, all the same breed (let's say black baldy) from the south west, the north west, mid west, and north east and brought them all here to a sale, to be sold one at a time, they would bring no more, and most likely less, than the local calves And if you took these calves, and some of ours, and carried them to these big sales where the "pot load buyers" buy them by the truck load, and ran them all in those sales one at a time, they would bring no more, probably less....than ours would.

 

[rocfarm]

Posted a

Good questions... Smart questions.

You're gonna have to ask someone familiar with Wagyu.

Posted a thread. We'll see if anyone responds. Hopefully someone knows the ins and outs.

 

[Brute 23]

Got a neighbor trying to convince me to put a Waygu bull on my cows come fall. He says he will provide the bull and he will buy the calves at #1 prices from me.

Anybody know what the catch is here? Do the calves only wean at half of what the other calves wean at?

If they have a market for them paying that price would not be surprising to know where they come from.

We had a simular set up, pre-pandemic. We got highs plus some because there were additional costs for us. We were weaning and some times holding calves to time them going to the feed lot. We also had the trucking and other misc costs prepping them.

It was a good deal and I really enjoyed it. Just be sure to ask what all exactly you have to do on your end as far as calving times, vacs, holding, hauling, etc to receive that deal.

 

[farmerjan]

I have been eating Jersey beef for over 30 years. My jersey nurse cows I would breed jersey for replacement heifers long before they did much with sexed semen... so you got a percentage of bulls obviously. I have bred them angus and limi also. The angus x jerseys were the smallest calves, and most were not very robust.. taking more after the jersey in size and fineness of bones. The limi x jersey cross were often larger calves, and grew a little better. I used to buy all the jersey/beef crossed calves from one farmer, getting about 10-20 a year. I get most all the jersey bull calves off one farm close by, that still has 6-10 in their milking herd of 100 cows. They are not as "skinny" as you think if they are getting enough milk in the first 3 months... no, they are not as round as a beef calf, but they do not have hips and ribs sticking out either.
I prefer the jersey beef for the "sweeter taste" and the tenderness... having killed a couple heifers at 4 years old, mostly on pasture with 2-3 lbs grain a day the last 2-3 months... and they were tender, not tough. Both bred too young, aborted them so they did not calve at 14-15 months, , and then did not breed back...
Have a couple neighbors here that bemoan the fact that they cannot find jersey bull/steer calves to raise for beef hardly anywhere like they used to...
They don't take that much longer to finish, and mine are 90% pasture and only fed a minimal amount of grain while running on pasture right up to kill day... maybe get 5-10# grain a day at most the last 30 days? But they get fed with other cattle I am teaching to come in for grain, so not like they can just stand and eat, they are competing for their grain. I kill at 24-28 months, so can get the backbones and all under the rules of the mad cow disease of nothing with spinal cord etc after 30 months old.

I have a jersey/hol/angus bull calf out of my last nurse cow that suddenly dropped dead on me with her calf only 3 weeks old...I put that calf and the other holstein bull calf I had grafted on her, on bottles and it is definitely smaller, finer boned... he will be beef in 2 years; they are about 8-9 weeks old now... and the holstein will get sold down the road.
I have a 1/2 longhorn, 1/2 angus steer that is roly poly, that will be beef next year... just turning yearling...and will get killed late this year or next year... as soon as I find out the kill dates we have. The 1/2 longhorn looks exactly like the longhorn cow in color ... and built like the angus bull... just shorter. The longhorn cow might weigh 900 and the calf is already 3/4 as tall as her and son says he probably weighs 600.... sure not huge at 11 months... but they also are the grazingest 2 animals in that pasture... she keeps the dogs and coyotes at bay so she has a home forever.... and when she doesn't breed back, her horns will go on my wall and her meat will get ground and go in the freezer... if she doesn't outlive me...
I will attest to Jersey beef being some of the best I have ever eaten... and will keep eating it, and jersey crosses, as long as I can find some. The cows also make great nurse cows if you have the patience to work with them... I had 5 at one time with 17 calves between them... looking for another one or 2 now that my new knees are working and the ankle replacement was so successful; and to replace the one I just unexpectedly lost. She had some age, she had raised me alot of calves... just found her dead in the barn with the 2 calves one morning... SH!T happens...

 

[Chuckie]

I was having a time trying to find healthy Jersey heifers. The Dairies around here will not part with their heifers, and those that will sell, there seems to be an issue about shots and health papers. I tell them my herd is clean and I am not going to bring a diseased animal into my herd. One dairy that is pretty close, they really hang on to their heifers. I have called them twice, but I don't want to bug them to death about it. Sorry to hear about your cow you found dead in the barn. No matter what, I never get used to that.

 

[Little Joe]

Want to say thanks again for all the opinions.....I agree with every comment you guys had as having validity......as a small background on myself & therefore how I've came to this opinion ....ive had quite a few Corriente & Longhorn cows bred both ways over the years.....for the last several years I've only had lightweight steers of all kinds & in the past I've been in the order buying lots of classes of mostly calves & some cow deals....so I think I have a little bit of a unique view of the question I asked......I'm personally a huge fan of Corriente cattle in general & for all the popular reasons crossing them with beef bulls .....I really like the Charolais crosses for what I do.....& yes there are all quality degrees represented in these beef corriente crosses.....ive seen them as sorry as you can imagine & ive seen them so good they stand with any number 1 feeder calves made & everything in between......I also totally agree calves sold at auction are bid on based on their individual merits of bone ,frame,condition, health & all the little fine points of most calf orders & like lots of ya'll said its buyer beware at auction ....in my opinion they have to sell themselves......another angle I'd like to point out to any detractors is the fact that you can drive thru the countryside all over the entire US & see some little small fine boned small framed beef breed cows that have absolutely no Longhorn or Corriente breeding at all & lots of them will never see 900 lbs on the best day of their lives......so to me what's the difference & like so many people point out you can run more smaller cows on same country thereby theory wise more total calves to sell......& again like some of you guys point out its super important to have great bulls on these cows.......& just like you guys I think the packer funded info being put out for the desired cattle types is a recipe for ranching headaches from fertility to longevity etc etc to the point you breed the cow out of the cow......I saw it put one time to breed for the heifer & deal with the steer......again im totally a fan of it all in its entirety & tks again


I ran across this post on Facebook on a group I'm in thought I'd share the answer the op shared, there were a lot of opinions on the matter but most aligned with this guy's opinion.

 

[BFE]

Best beef I ever had was a Jersey/Angus cross steer. Absolutely melt in your mouth, good marbling. Holstien/Angus was next.

 

[Ebenezer]

Years ago, Bob Evans made a comment in an interview of some cattle magazine that he thought Angus X Jersey beef was the way to go. I think that was after he had dispersed his registered Charolais herd.

He had a herd of them and called them Ajax cows.

 

[Ebenezer]

Got a neighbor trying to convince me to put a Waygu bull on my cows come fall. He says he will provide the bull and he will buy the calves at #1 prices from me.

Anybody know what the catch is here? Do the calves only wean at half of what the other calves wean at?

What has one-upped the CAB deal are some of the buyback programs if you use bulls from the folks who are, for all practical purposes, acting as integrators. They pay top market prices plus premiums. You'd have to know the market value of your normal calves and then add a premium to that value per head and use that as a minimum which you would accept.

The most local buy back program is in GA and they have a following here as the calves can be delivered in trailer load or truck load lots back into GA. You get to buy the bulls you use at an auction so that you can use what you want from their offerings. But given, these are Angus cattle that will likely be in the CAB program.

 

[rocfarm]

What has one-upped the CAB deal are some of the buyback programs if you use bulls from the folks who are, for all practical purposes, acting as integrators. They pay top market prices plus premiums. You'd have to know the market value of your normal calves and then add a premium to that value per head and use that as a minimum which you would accept.

The most local buy back program is in GA and they have a following here as the calves can be delivered in trailer load or truck load lots back into GA. You get to buy the bulls you use at an auction so that you can use what you want from their offerings. But given, these are Angus cattle that will likely be in the CAB program.

Not willing to buy a bull. They guy says he'll provide the bull for a breeding season.

If I'm going to buy the bull, I want one that I can use for about 4 to 5 years and keep replacements off of, then switch to another breed.

But this seems like it could be a good deal. Definitely interested and will discuss heavily in July.

 

[rocfarm]

Just looked at a lot of Wagyu bulls online. Danged if they don't look like some kind of black corriente x black angus cross!

Maybe we could try Wagyu X Corrientes and see if those would sell…

Bet they'd just look Like straight corrientes LOL.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Basically, the heavier marbling the breed/animal is - the lighter the muscling. So, you need a paying market for the higher marbling.
To "ME", people are shooting for way too much marbling. How much FAT do you want to eat??

 

[Dave]

Got a neighbor trying to convince me to put a Waygu bull on my cows come fall. He says he will provide the bull and he will buy the calves at #1 prices from me.

Anybody know what the catch is here? Do the calves only wean at half of what the other calves wean at?

I know B gets a premium above what #1s get on his F-1's. He breeds his heifers to a Wagyu. He offered a neighbor a 50 cent premium and that neighbor told him it was not enough.

 

[Travlr]

Basically, the heavier marbling the breed/animal is - the lighter the muscling. So, you need a paying market for the higher marbling.
To "ME", people are shooting for way too much marbling. How much FAT do you want to eat??

Somebody here described the flavor and mouth feel, and if I understood it right it seemed like Wagyu left a coating of waxy grease in your mouth. And she said it had a liver-like flavor. I like liver but I don't like it more than a good beef flavored steak, and the coating in the mouth would be a deal breaker.

 

[Warren Allison]

Saw the article below in a FB group today. This is how the roan-ing/small spots got into the Longhorns. And not just this ranch, but a lot of them.


In 1882, Tom Lynch trailed a herd of 3,000 cattle north from Idaho to Spitzee Crossing (near the town of High River).
These cattle where mostly descendent from longhorn stock which joined the 21 shorthorn bulls that Fred Stimson, with the help of 19 year old Herb Miller, brought up from Chicago.
This herd was the beginning of the Bar U herd.
Stimson was attracted to this area by his brother in law of the North West Mounted Police.
In 1881, he registered the Bar U brand under his name. He then proceeded to get backing from the Allan family from Montreal and created the the North West Cattle Co.
In 1883, the North West Cattle Co. Moved their head quarters upstream to the now current site of the Bar U.

 

[Brute 23]

Basically, the heavier marbling the breed/animal is - the lighter the muscling. So, you need a paying market for the higher marbling.
To "ME", people are shooting for way too much marbling. How much FAT do you want to eat??

That is part of the marketing. They can sell a pretty picture of marbling. They can't sell a picture of flavor or tenderness.

 

[Travlr]

Basically, the heavier marbling the breed/animal is - the lighter the muscling. So, you need a paying market for the higher marbling.
To "ME", people are shooting for way too much marbling. How much FAT do you want to eat??

I also wanted to address the idea that lighter muscled cattle marble better.

Pretty obviously Wagyu are an extreme example... and on the other hand Belgian Blue (double muscled) are the other extreme. And Wagyu are overly marbled, and BB are pretty lean. But I've seen a lot of muscled up Angus, Limousin, and other breeds that marble nicely.

Jeanne, I'd bet your own animals marble well and of the pics you've posted they don't look like what I would call lightly muscled.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

The original Simmental breed has always gone against the "normal". Out of Limo, Char & Simm - Simmental has always been a high marbling breed. But, they never were quite as heavy muscled as the Limo or Char. Simmental breed has always been an early maturing breed (earlier than Herefords), but Char & Limo are later maturing. We kinda go against the grain when you compare Continentals.

 

[Ky hills]

Back to the Corrientes, just saw on a Facebook group Kentucky Cattle Market, somebody out of Illinois is advertising 15 Corrientes and crosses for $750.

 

[BFE]

Back to the Corrientes, just saw on a Facebook group Kentucky Cattle Market, somebody out of Illinois is advertising 15 Corrientes and crosses for $750.

I'll check it out!